Jet Hitch Thrusters

[rvanler65]

Well I for one think this can only go bad for our hobby. I will no longer support Aerotech and will be switching all motors to CTI and LOKI!!!!

 

[K'Tesh]

I'm looking at this from the perspective (remember I'm uncertified), of unintended consequences. What's going to stop some 18 year old radicalized individual from being able to purchasing these and weaponizing them? BAD CALL Aerotech.

 

[markkoelsch]

Is there a way to have the Tripoli BoD candidates weigh in on this before I cast my vote?

Sure, post the question to the TRA list.

 

[Rob Campbell]

Having had first hand experience with high school stupidity.. I wouldn't put it past them.

Nate

Many 17 year old guys out there who would think a truck with a flaming booster rocket is a great chick magnet.

 

[o1d_dude]

I would like to attach about 10 of them to my street luge and go UP hills instead of down.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/v...stalls-jets-to-aid-world-record-attempt-video

 

[DizWolf]

I'm looking at this from the perspective (remember I'm uncertified), of unintended consequences. What's going to stop some 18 year old radicalized individual from being able to purchasing these and weaponizing them? BAD CALL Aerotech.

To be totally honest, there's not much stopping them now from doing that. There's just not much real use for it for someone with mal intent. They can't lift much, and it would lower the effectiveness of any harm-intending device. Even if it was hard to get a commercial motor, Sugar is fairly simple to cook up. You just don't see it happening, because it really wouldn't make much sense.

 

[H_Rocket]

Having had a few hours to sleep on the issue, I am personally going to wait this one out. To me some of the reaction here is almost like the anti gun zealots saying "somebody did something bad with a gun - ban them all!". I don't approve of the product and would not buy it myself. However As another mentioned, I like AT motors and will continue to fly them. So all the folks planning on jumping ship to whatever vendor, the line to sell off their hardware cheap forms here.

 

[BigRiJoe]

What would G. Harry Stine say?

 

[michigander]

That will work to find gas tank leak

 

[billspad]

That will work to find gas tank leak

I'm sure these will work really well on 1990's Chevy pickups. Read the General Motors vs. NBC here.

 

[bob jablonski]

I'm sure these will work really well on 1990's Chevy pickups. Read the General Motors vs. NBC here.

yet another time where the news made up a story for ratings and got caught.

 

[LW Bercini]

Georgia??? "Hold my beer and watch this..." is a pure Yankee thing, straight from the heart of Wisconsin!

Oh, I will grant you that the cheeseheads' zeal for their beer borders cult status. But there are good reasons why there are characters like Jeff Dunham's Bubba J:

 

[tmacklin]

I am sure there are those who feel we ARE the idiotic masses.

Yes.

 

[patelldp]

Having had a few hours to sleep on the issue, I am personally going to wait this one out. To me some of the reaction here is almost like the anti gun zealots saying "somebody did something bad with a gun - ban them all!". I don't approve of the product and would not buy it myself. However As another mentioned, I like AT motors and will continue to fly them. So all the folks planning on jumping ship to whatever vendor, the line to sell off their hardware cheap forms here.

Al Gloer - voice of reason.

No seriously, this is a great analogy.

You all need to stop suggesting things that you would do if you were a stupid teenager or a stupid redneck. Simply state that it's a stupid product line, insensitive considering the legal issues that we have struggled through in the last decade, counterproductive to the successes we've had in those legal proceedings, and state your intention to avoid AT going forward.

I'd actually be in support of moderators scrubbing this thread of "stupid acts that could be committed with JetHitch Thrusters" because if they were that likely someone would have done it already with an Estes F15 bought at Hobby Lobby.

 

[Ted Cochran]

Sounds a bit political to me. I am not sure why the president of NAR does not believe that the potential product launch by a well known hobby rocketry vendor selling HPR motors to anyone 18, encouraging them to stick it on the beck of their vehicle for kicks, is not a NAR concern.

If it's not a concern for NAR, or Tripoli or any other governing body that is involved in this hobby then I am not sure whose concern it should be. These organizations solely exist for the membership and the hobby. I think you NAR members need to send a clear message to Mr Tom Cochran with your vote when the board is up for reelection as you need someone in place that is not afraid to stand up and fight for the hobby!

It's Ted, not Tom.

I didn't say what I personally believe; I said what the NAR position has to be. It is not the NAR's place to regulate manufacturer's product offerings. This is a free country; people have the right to do what they believe in their best interest if it is legal. Should we be trying to enforce behavioral standards on our vendors? Should we be passing resolutions about everything that we think is a bad idea that is tangentially related to rocketry? If a model airplane engine manufacturer starts selling engines to dice carrots, should AMA get involved?

I understand that rocketry enthusiasts are passionate, and that the scars from the BATF fight are still there, but we don't have the right to control the market for anything related to our hobby. People have, and will continue to, fly home-brew rockets that are well outside anything we in the hobby are comfortable with, using all manner of commercially available components. We will continue to work to educate the public and local officials as to what constitutes sport rocketry versus everything else.

NAR members (including me) can let the manufacturer know how they feel, yay or nay, as individuals. The NAR's membership, speaking as individuals, has much more sway than any resolution the NAR Board of Trustees might pass.

The NAR board, of course, may decide otherwise, but that's my personal opinion.

--tc
Ted Cochran
NAR President
NAR 69921 L3
TRA 6456

 

[BigRiJoe]

where's Roger Goodell when you need him

 

[Nick@JET]

I think they are trying to get on Mythbusthers. At least have a 20 second burn.
What happened to L2 cert requirement?

Funny, I told my wife about this and her words were " wow, that is really stupid... Especially from rocket scientist". I got a kick out of that.

Seriously this is retarded. But I agree with Ted it is a free country and people do stupid stuff all the time. I've made stupid business decisions too, but at least try to think of the overall affect on others.

They will get kicked in the pants by the small rocket community that seams pretty obvious .

I think too late to glaze over and say this was a bad April fools joke. Too bad I like their products. Maybe there are anti-rocket people in three design section .

 

[Ravenex]

Ted,
I have to disagree companies, organizations, and individuals all have a right to disapprove of what others are doingand they have there own right to pressure them to change that behavior. While we cannot prevent them from legal activities we can try to dissuade them through other actions such as public statements, boycotts, etc. It is quite normal for companies to retract business from vendors due to disagreeing with practices that are contrary to their own interests.

Further I am a little disappointed in the NAR censorship of the Facebook discussion by it's own members of something they felt was relevant to their hobby.

 

[grouch]

Ted,
I have to disagree companies, organizations, and individuals all have a right to disapprove of what others are doingand they have there own right to pressure them to change that behavior.

So you personally liked getting pressured and coerced into conforming with how others feel you should be doing things? No thank you sir. It seems like all people want to do these days is bitch. I guess that and porn is what the internet is good for.

 

[tmacklin]

I like to look at the bright side. No one has called Gary Rosenfield a "new-age basement bomber". Not even Jerry Irvine. :surprised:

 

[accpool]

This seems very irresponsible as it will cause an issue. This falls under the edict , just because you can doesn't mean you should category. I had planned on expanding our motor inventory to include aerotech, but will not any more until these are removed from sale. Just a credit card and you can buy L2 motors, really really stupid Aerotech, shame on you.

 

[mpitfield]

It's Ted, not Tom.

, sorry about that Ted I was singing "Life is Highway" envisioning all these trucks whizzing by me with their bumblers a blaze while writing that previous post

I didn't say what I personally believe; I said what the NAR position has to be. It is not the NAR's place to regulate manufacturer's product offerings. This is a free country; people have the right to do what they believe in their best interest if it is legal. Should we be trying to enforce behavioral standards on our vendors? Should we be passing resolutions about everything that we think is a bad idea that is tangentially related to rocketry? If a model airplane engine manufacturer starts selling engines to dice carrots, should AMA get involved?

I understand that rocketry enthusiasts are passionate, and that the scars from the BATF fight are still there, but we don't have the right to control the market for anything related to our hobby. People have, and will continue to, fly home-brew rockets that are well outside anything we in the hobby are comfortable with, using all manner of commercially available components. We will continue to work to educate the public and local officials as to what constitutes sport rocketry versus everything else.

NAR members (including me) can let the manufacturer know how they feel, yay or nay, as individuals. The NAR's membership, speaking as individuals, has much more sway than any resolution the NAR Board of Trustees might pass.

The NAR board, of course, may decide otherwise, but that's my personal opinion.

--tc
Ted Cochran
NAR President
NAR 69921 L3
TRA 6456

Thanks for replying to my post Ted.

I certainly don't want to make this about you or me. My point was not meant to be anti-capitalist or suggest that anyone imposes any restrictions around our entrepreneur vendors in the hobby. I would love to see AeroTech stick around and grow. I have a half dozen of their rockets, their Mantis launch pad and controller, all of their 29-38mm hardware and now some of their 54mm hardware.

My personal view is that this subject is very pertinent to anyone in the hobby. AeroTech is not a small unknown start-up in the hobby, and as such I believe they need to be more diligent in what they consider bringing to the market.

This is not a case of a small difference in policy. On one side you have a self governing group of hobbyists that have spent decades and likely thousands of dollars to push this wonderful hobby to where it is today. In order for us to fly HPR we need to demonstrate some knowledge of safety and rocketry, more importantly we try to instill common sense through mentoring. Now on the other side of the coin we have anyone who is 18 and a vehicle to strap one of these onto his bumper for his 15 minuets of fame. In between we have that instrumental vendor in our hobby feeding both sides.

This difference seems extreme to me and regardless of how much I enjoy AeroTech products, a "revolt" or "protest" of sorts is exactly what needs to happen here. I suspect AeroTech will realize that this new product launch was ill advised and hopefully everyone will calm down and things will blow over.

I see this as an opportunity for AeroTech. The spotlight is on, and they could use it as a platform to address some of the other concerns AeroTech supporters have. If so they may even pick up some sales.

 

[cwbullet]

How did I miss this train wreck? This was a bad PR choice. Glad they took it down.

 

[accpool]

It's not down, site still up. No products are available now, popup tells you to contact them.

 

[tmacklin]

On the other hand and assuming one has the money, one can go to the local Chevy dealer and buy a 500 HP Corvette without any "certification" whatsoever and hit the highways. Same thing goes for firearms, jet skis, skill saws and box cutters. It's what one does with these things that ultimately matters and making nice with agencies that hate you will never change their institutional mindsets. I have no doubt that if the BATFE, CPSC, DOT, FAA and NFPA could do as they please, hobby rocketry and a host of other activities would be banned.

Can you spell rocket "starters"?

 

[RAHagen]

I think it's more of the fact that the only use for these is at its safest, still pretty dangerous. Not to mention if one were to go off in traffic...

I agree it's a free country and AT has a right to do whatever they want within legal bounds. However we also have the right to voice our opinion on the subject, boycott AT, send multiple strongly worded letters etc etc... But that's all we can do. We can't force AT into a decision, but we can persuade. I personally am not selling my AT hardware. I think this is a bad decision for AT. I know quite a few if those "Bubbas" and the last thing they need is a high power rocket motor to strap onto their truck, but it's their money and their life.

If we try to control all the companies in the hobby we're no better than the government that wishes our hobby doesn't exist.

Just my opinion.

 

[boatgeek]

My $2.00:

This is a spectacularly bad idea on many levels. The most obvious is liability. If the safety instructions posted earlier are really from AT, then they are a personal injury lawyer's dream. The J motor tells people to back up 50 feet. Minimum safe distance for a J in a rocket is 100 feet, 200 if it's complex. That's an instant win for the plaintiff. Also, the safety instructions say to stay 50 feet back and make sure that there are no vehicles within a quarter mile. Nothing in there says to not have people between 50 feet and a quarter mile. Following the letter of the safety instructions, you could have someone standing 50 feet behind a J class sparky motor. That is insanity.

Getting on to marketing, I could see these marketed to the monster truck and pyrotechnics crowd. However, AT was really targeting that market, they wouldn't have these things fit to a trailer hitch. They'd have a bolted pad that suits whatever the pyro people usually use. Also, they'd advertise in pyro magazines, not on the open web. Or, more likely if they wanted to be successful, they'd partner with a monster truck or pyro team. They'd also have a longer burn time, but that's quibbling. I can't see any way that these are not mass marketed to the bubbas out there. I'd like to assume good intentions, but I just don't see it.

Should you boycott? They have the right to make and sell anything they want, but their customers have the right to take their business elsewhere. I don't buy Wal-Mart because I don't like them. Doesn't mean you can't, and doesn't mean that Wal-Mart notices that I don't.

Does another motor manufacturer meet your needs? Can a group crowdfund Loki getting CA certification? Do you want to hedge your bets since this indicates AT won't be around long? If this really goes out on the market, I give AT less than a year before they close due to a personal injury lawsuit.

 

[DizWolf]

If AT is serious, all they nee to do is make it impossible to fit these in standard motor mounts.

I doubt they'd do that. As the intent is to see these flown.

 

[rcktnut]

My main concern is with selling them to anybody over 18 that wants one is going to lead to misuse, that's a given, and then have all thrusters, rocket motors fall under regulation again, if not out right banned. No problem with selling these thrusters to verified users for show intended purposes. To me these thrusters as far as the general public is concerned are for nothing other than promoting stupid, dangerous acts.

 

[Rob Campbell]

Maybe Estes will join the madness with a like of "non-rocketry" motors and hardware that can be fitted to bagpipes.

[YOUTUBE][video=youtube;cnVjkE87FDY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnVjkE87FDY[/video][/YOUTUBE]