High Power Rocketry in decline, on the rise, or in limbo?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Why do you think NAR is getting a bigger jump?

More sections? More places to fly? If one is stuck in the central part of the country, the opportunities to fly J and above goes down during the growing season. People get bored and leave once the newness wears off. This includes those who achieve L3 and just give up or hardly fly after that. Kurt
 
Why do you think NAR is getting a bigger jump?

Think TARC has anything to do with it?

I would be interested to see what the membership rates are for those who are partaking in a school program (TARC or SLI). I have seen lots of participation with both...

Mike
 
Think TARC has anything to do with it?

I would be interested to see what the membership rates are for those who are partaking in a school program (TARC or SLI). I have seen lots of participation with both...

Mike

I think that is it. TRA could do better to reach out and encourage young fliers. The Mentorship is a start but it does not have the same level of participation.
 
I think that is it. TRA could do better to reach out and encourage young fliers. The Mentorship is a start but it does not have the same level of participation.

I know Bill Clune does a lot of outreach around town, and we've had a few scout groups at launches. I always see Greg preping some of his small rockets for kids to fly. A lot of us will bring LPR rockets for for our own kids at launches, and I'd say our mod roc rack has something on it every launch cycle. Hopefully it grows into more.
 
I would be interested to see what the membership rates are for those who are partaking in a school program (TARC or SLI).
There is no NAR membership requirement to participate is TARC. I don't know about SLI, but I doubt that there is for that program too. The NAR and NAR volunteers support both programs, but those programs don't result in a membership boost. Mostly, it's students doing a project, mission accomplished, and move on.... Some join because they get excited about rocketry, but neither program results in droves of young people joining the NAR.

With the combined membership of NAR and TRA representing <0.005% of the US population, if you can get 1 in a 100 kids involved with the hobby, you're doing good.
 
I know Bill Clune does a lot of outreach around town, and we've had a few scout groups at launches. I always see Greg preping some of his small rockets for kids to fly. A lot of us will bring LPR rockets for for our own kids at launches, and I'd say our mod roc rack has something on it every launch cycle. Hopefully it grows into more.

Our clubs have a TRA and NAR club on the same field. The NAR club has plenty of family involvement and TRA has significantly less. We will have to they to encourage more family involvement from the TRA side.

We recently started using a red flag on research days to signify if a research motor was on the pads. It allows for a visible indication when kids can go past low power. It makes me feel better even though I know that research motors are no different in terms of safety.
 
I can relate..I used to be TRA # 4622 and can't come back to this cash rich hobby..i have since acquired properties and other things that require monies out and a lot of extra work that I can't leave for casual launch weekends..HOSED TOTALLY!
I still follow the new ultra expensive Carbon Fiber fun!
there is an apparent wealth status to our Hobby as now flyers can afford L and M motors like they were "c" motors..spectacular but means the Hobby was stripped away to the Rich affluent members..
 
Last edited:
Get a Graduator type kit $50-$70 The new DMS motors G retail for $20.00 and H in the $30 retail range with no cases to buy and your in the game. It's just the folks with the big motors get the magazine articles. Now the land issue and letting the public know about us... But be careful with the public eye Flying porta pottys are cool and so is the occasional CATO But I witnessed it kept one Mom from letting Jr. get a Estes starter set due to the "show with the crazy unsafe rockets on TV".... And if it gets to big then the Saftey crats in the government may look close again.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com
 
Just to see if I understand, since some people can afford to fly M's all the time then that means others can't fly anything? Screw that. I like when the M's show up be a use I can watch for free. I will stay with my G's through J's regardless how much others spend.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.
 
Just to see if I understand, since some people can afford to fly M's all the time then that means others can't fly anything? Screw that. I like when the M's show up be a use I can watch for free. I will stay with my G's through J's regardless how much others spend.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.

I'm the same. I made it to two club launches this year - was great seeing the M's fly, but I was quite happy with my biggest flight being a cluster of 2 E9-4. I even had a MicroMaxx powered Mosquito on the pad - ignitor issue, so it didn't actually fly. I've built three rockets that I could use a L1 capable motor in, but I don't have the room at home to do anything real big. The rocket that flew on a pair of E9-4 motors will fly on a G motor next summer, but I don't see myself going much higher - maybe L1.

I also take my cub scout den launching locally - we've built Alpha III's and Wizards. You can have lots of fun with 1/2A6-2 and A8-3 motors.
 
I agree with the above guys...you don't have to go hi-impulse to enjoy the hobby. In my opinion only, if you can't see the rocket through the whole flight, whats the point? Might as well watch a virtual one on a computer screen.

This is not to disparage those who enjoy high power...the nice thing about this hobby is that there are many different safe, legal ways to enjoy it.

But you don't have to spend tons of cash to have fun. The local club I host very rarely flies anything above a 'B' motor. Kids get to see and recover their rockets in 99% of the launches...which can be more fun than launching a rocket you never see again.

FC
 
I think that is it. TRA could do better to reach out and encourage young fliers. The Mentorship is a start but it does not have the same level of participation.
I don't think that both organizations need to cover the same needs. In fact, I think it would be better if they had different areas of focus.

NAR has always been about model rocketry, education and contests. I think TARC is a wonderful evolution of their traditional mission.

TRA was formed because of NAR's opposition to HPR. Now that NAR has grudgingly accepted HPR as a valid part of the hobby, TRA is pushing forward with "experimental" rocketry (home-made motors).
 
I don't think that both organizations need to cover the same needs. In fact, I think it would be better if they had different areas of focus.

NAR has always been about model rocketry, education and contests. I think TARC is a wonderful evolution of their traditional mission.

TRA was formed because of NAR's opposition to HPR. Now that NAR has grudgingly accepted HPR as a valid part of the hobby, TRA is pushing forward with "experimental" rocketry (home-made motors).

This is a good assessment. I have been around model rocketry since `97 (BAR Feb 1997), and this is exactly what I have seen. If you did not want to fly parachute duration, but would rather burn your own motor design, then TRA was more your thing. I have, in the past, tried to stay with both orgs, but ultimately end up a TRA member at heart.
 
I don't think that both organizations need to cover the same needs. In fact, I think it would be better if they had different areas of focus.

NAR has always been about model rocketry, education and contests. I think TARC is a wonderful evolution of their traditional mission.

TRA was formed because of NAR's opposition to HPR. Now that NAR has grudgingly accepted HPR as a valid part of the hobby, TRA is pushing forward with "experimental" rocketry (home-made motors).

I don't have an issue with this either. NAR isn't really big around Idaho but we are now accepting them out at our launches and we do have NAR members. I'm only a member of Tripoli. I would like to do more myself in getting young people involved. I think too that doing displays at expos and other forms of outreach should help get more adults involved.

I have found that most adults have no idea that these high power launches are even taking place. Usually they find out through word of mouth.
 
I don't think that both organizations need to cover the same needs. In fact, I think it would be better if they had different areas of focus.

NAR has always been about model rocketry, education and contests. I think TARC is a wonderful evolution of their traditional mission.

TRA was formed because of NAR's opposition to HPR. Now that NAR has grudgingly accepted HPR as a valid part of the hobby, TRA is pushing forward with "experimental" rocketry (home-made motors).

Here is the main question though. How many people actually KNOW about NAR and TRA? Let me give you an example:

Over here in western MA, we usually have an airshow every year between the two reserve bases we have (Barnes and Westover.) Every year, there are three groups that show up and have a booth; NASA, the local model airplane group, and HAM radio. Now why don't more groups take this opportunity to at least show they exist? I know from these two airshows alone, you get exposure to 100K+ people, which is not a small amount when you think about it.

I really think part of the problem of people knowing about club rocketry is the fact that most clubs don't advertise outside of the respective national groups.
 
I really don't care how thing were in the past, but at present there are only 3 significant differences between NAR and TRA.

1.) NAR has a model rocket program and TRA does not.

2.) TRA allows it's members to make their own motors and NAR does not.

3.) NAR's print magazine is included in the membership cost.

Those are the only significant differences.

There are several minor differences between NAR and TRA, the most significant are:

1.) NAR insurance is universal, but AFAIK TRA insurance is only valid at TRA sanctioned launches within 1 mile of the launch pad.

2.) TRA has a high power mentoring program for junior members that allows participation in L1, L2 and L3 projects while NAR only permits junior members to participate in L1 projects.

As for commonality, reciprocity is nearly 100%.

1.) TRA members can participate in any NAR sanctioned launch to the level of their certification, however TRA members are limited to using certified commercial motors as NAR does not sanction research motor activities

2.) NAR members can participate in any TRA sanctioned launch, Commercial or Research, to the level of their certification, however NAR members are limited to using certified commercial motors.

3.) By federal law, minors can not be high power certified and consequently junior member high power participation programs are not reciprocal.

The number of high power certified individuals in NAR and TRA are within 10%, and many seniors have dual memberships, but NAR has about 45% more members. Today I attribute this to NAR's model rocketry programs which can be conducted from small urban and suburban parks and fields that are not large enough to support high power rocketry with is the primary focus of TRA.

Bob
 
As my former competition team mate, Bob Kaplow, has noted, the cost of model/high power participation is relative. In my case, I compare it to my sports car racing experience and find the complaints about cost to be ludicrous. :)
 
Well my wife complains about the cost once in a whole but I remind her that we only launch at the club 4 or 5 times so we don't spend that much on HPR.
 
I compare it to other things that I have tried and that many of my friends do regularly. Being in a bowling league would cost at least $20 per week (plus food and beer), golfing cost $40 or $50 per round (if you drive a cart - not including food and drinks at the 19th hole), NASCAR isn't cheap, and tickets to a pro sports game are now more than $125 per seat. If I don't go on a major trip (to NARAM or to the TARC finals or something) my spending locally is probably under $100 to $200 per year. Pfft.

Granted, I am primarily a LPR flyer, and as I move toward larger rockets and larger motors it gets a little more expensive, but since I only fly a handful of times each year, I don't burn a lot of motors. I would spend a lot more with most other "normal" or "typical" hobbies. Heck, the guys at the model railroad club were just posting about a "sale" on a new O-scale engine. It was "only" $800.

Rockets are cheap.
 
Don't forget model airplanes. You can get a RTF foam plane for under $100.00 but I seen an article on a scale Saber jet that only cost $40,000.00. Every hobby as a lower end and High end. And it is all fun regardless of what end of the scale your playing on.
Bob Jablonski
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com
 
I can in no way afford to fly &#8220;M&#8221; motors but my club has for the past few years flown one or another large club built rocket on &#8220;M&#8221; motors at either Air Fest or High Frontiers.

With the cost of the reload spread amongst the membership I get to participate in a Big Rocket Flight without the Big Rocket Expense.

Now if you are not a member of a club and or your club doesn&#8217;t happen to have a Cert 3 flyer. . .
 
I actually have though about funding a large build by our club. I think a group project would be fun.
 
Why do you think NAR is getting a bigger jump?

I really don't care how thing were in the past, but at present there are only 3 significant differences between NAR and TRA.

1.) NAR has a model rocket program and TRA does not.

2.) TRA allows it's members to make their own motors and NAR does not.

3.) NAR's print magazine is included in the membership cost.

Those are the only significant differences.

There are several minor differences between NAR and TRA, the most significant are:

1.) NAR insurance is universal, but AFAIK TRA insurance is only valid at TRA sanctioned launches within 1 mile of the launch pad.

2.) TRA has a high power mentoring program for junior members that allows participation in L1, L2 and L3 projects while NAR only permits junior members to participate in L1 projects.

As for commonality, reciprocity is nearly 100%.

1.) TRA members can participate in any NAR sanctioned launch to the level of their certification, however TRA members are limited to using certified commercial motors as NAR does not sanction research motor activities

2.) NAR members can participate in any TRA sanctioned launch, Commercial or Research, to the level of their certification, however NAR members are limited to using certified commercial motors.

3.) By federal law, minors can not be high power certified and consequently junior member high power participation programs are not reciprocal.

The number of high power certified individuals in NAR and TRA are within 10%, and many seniors have dual memberships, but NAR has about 45% more members. Today I attribute this to NAR's model rocketry programs which can be conducted from small urban and suburban parks and fields that are not large enough to support high power rocketry with is the primary focus of TRA.

Bob


I would like to answer to why I think there is a bump in NAR, at least from our clubs experience. And add one big difference to add to Bobs list, that is proving to be a big reason on why I have seen a shift.

NAR cert is life time you don't have to re-certify if you let you membership laps. TRA guys don't want to admit it, at least the ones I have talked to, but that is a big deal to people around here.

Not having to go through that again is worth more than they think. When times get tough and you have to feed your family first, then one day when you get to rejoin you don't have to start all over again. I'm sorry but that blows.

I support both right now but when the crap hits the fan and I have to take a break you can bet NAR will be the one I will pick back up.

TA
 
I would like to answer to why I think there is a bump in NAR, at least from our clubs experience. And add one big difference to add to Bobs list, that is proving to be a big reason on why I have seen a shift.

NAR cert is life time you don't have to re-certify if you let you membership laps. TRA guys don't want to admit it, at least the ones I have talked to, but that is a big deal to people around here.

Not having to go through that again is worth more than they think. When times get tough and you have to feed your family first, then one day when you get to rejoin you don't have to start all over again. I'm sorry but that blows.

I support both right now but when the crap hits the fan and I have to take a break you can bet NAR will be the one I will pick back up.

TA


...really? Life-time Certifications? Hmmmmm......
 
I would like to answer to why I think there is a bump in NAR, at least from our clubs experience. And add one big difference to add to Bobs list, that is proving to be a big reason on why I have seen a shift.

NAR cert is life time you don't have to re-certify if you let you membership laps. TRA guys don't want to admit it, at least the ones I have talked to, but that is a big deal to people around here.

Not having to go through that again is worth more than they think. When times get tough and you have to feed your family first, then one day when you get to rejoin you don't have to start all over again. I'm sorry but that blows.

I support both right now but when the crap hits the fan and I have to take a break you can bet NAR will be the one I will pick back up.

TA

Yeah, that was discussed ad nauseum on the TRA group and I can appreciate the tactic of re-upping with NAR after a lapse. In fact if one re-ups with NAR and get
a 'hankering for Ex again, could then just pay the TRA dues and be an L3 again with the cross recognition. I thought TRA was going to look into this or maybe they
just left the issue as an exploitable loophole. Where I'm at was a dual NAR/TRA group but NAR interest dropped and the charter allowed to lapse as no one joined
NAR anymore. (A few maintain dual membership to this day as they like to support the activities of both groups even though it isn't necessary anymore.) Kurt
 
I would like to answer to why I think there is a bump in NAR, at least from our clubs experience. And add one big difference to add to Bobs list, that is proving to be a big reason on why I have seen a shift.

NAR cert is life time you don't have to re-certify if you let you membership laps. TRA guys don't want to admit it, at least the ones I have talked to, but that is a big deal to people around here.

Not having to go through that again is worth more than they think. When times get tough and you have to feed your family first, then one day when you get to rejoin you don't have to start all over again. I'm sorry but that blows.

I support both right now but when the crap hits the fan and I have to take a break you can bet NAR will be the one I will pick back up.

TA

I didn't know that. I thought you had to re-cert if you let it lapse by more than a year in both orgs. I had no idea TRA was the only one that did that.

I'm not completely opposed to re-certifying but the time gap should be larger. 5 years is a good time. Things change over the years and people change. The club wants to make sure you still remember what you are doing is my assumption of why they make you re-cert. Perhaps TRA could let you skip L1 and the test for L2 and just do the L2 flight if you are an L3 person? IDK
 
Back
Top