Estes 2037 D-Region Tomahawk

[Bruiser]

On the tails of finishing my Mini Nike X (needs the streamer added) I have decided to move on to another rocket because I am stuck at home. Both Elaine and I have tested positive for Covid so we have to quarantine. I rummaged thru my stack of kits and this one seems like I have what I need to build it including mods

So this is almost 39 inches tall, has a really long plastic nose cone, a plastic fin can and one-piece plastic fins. Estes states it weighs 9.2 ounces and flies to 787 feet on a E9-6. I simmed it up in OR and even with reloads for a 24/40 case performance isn't too great.


I think that I am going to modify it to use 29mm motors. The design has a 17.75 motor mount/stuffer tube that is held in place with two centering ring molded into the plastic fin can and a forward plastic centering ring in the coupler that joins the two 11.625 inch body tubes together. I would need to open up the molded rings in the fin can and I would not use the plastic forward ring, The motor mount tube I would use would be 8 inches long so it will not reach the tube coupler. I would just cut a new fwd centering ring from 1/8th inch ply.

I tried googling to find other builds and found just a few write ups (mostly reviews) so let me ask if anyone else has modded this kit to use 29mm motors?

Thanks for reading,
-Bob

 

[K'Tesh]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/attention-all-29mm-estes-d-region-tomahawk-2037-modders.64404/

 

[mikec]

The pictures are dead, unfortunately, but https://web.archive.org/web/20100123063711/http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2051/38 is the text of a project on the old Rocketry Planet that documented a 29mm D-region.

 

[DigBaddy]

Probably a good idea to go 29mm if you have the room to fly it higher. Mine's rebuilt with heavier tubes and even E28/F24 doesn't go that high. There's a reason I've printed up parts for a BT-70/29mm version of it.

Going to 29mm and not making it too heavy lets you use adapted down 24mm motors too; so not a whole lot of downside to the conversion.

 

[n3tjm]

I loved that rocket... except for one little thing... I could not find a glue that could bond to the plastic used in the fincan...

 

[DigBaddy]

I loved that rocket... except for one little thing... I could not find a glue that could bond to the plastic used in the fincan...

CA worked for me. Even has landed on a lake's glare ice...

 

[n3tjm]

Unfortunatly CA is what I had to use... at least I could scrape it off and reglue the fin/fins off they got knocked off after every landing. Excellent flyer though.

 

[OldGuy1967]

Howdy, I have a original one from 1984 #1944 that is 24mm and flew it recently in Sept. Here were my notes: C12-6 QJet composite to 350 feet. Really fast takeoff, long delay, great straight flight. 15 inch nylon chute, landed with no damage.

 

[KenECoyote]

I simmed it up in OR and even with reloads for a 24/40 case performance isn't too great.

Hi Bob,

Out of curiosity, what type of performance are you looking for?

Also have you considered the 24mm Economax F44?

 

[Bruiser]

K-Tesh,
your build is the main one that I found. Lots of great info in there. I'm not sure if Wendy's is still selling True Moo milk though but I am going to use a Estes 29mm retainer anyways. I love the payload bay idea and will probably do that mod as well. Did you use tiny screws to hold it together? So no OR sim? Do you remember what your weight came out to be?

mikec
I didn't find that one but it looks like a great build. I'm a visual learner though so without pictures I'm not learning as much from it

I have some Plastruck glue that I used on the plastic fins of my Majestic and the pro series booster. That seemed to work great but I have recently read about SCIGRIP #16 Acrylic Plastic Cement so I bought some of that to try. I wish the parts came on trees so I could sample glue some of this plastic together...

Performance wise I am looking to hit 2,000 foot or so. Can't really reach that with 24mm motors due to the weight. It's just a little heavy stock and I'll be adding some mods suck as the payload bay with altimeter and I am not shy with primer and paint

Sounds like it's a go. I'll probably start a little later tonight.

Thanks for all the input,
-Bob

​

 

[SolarYellow]

CTI makes three- and six-grain 24mm motors.

The AT F35 is basically an F44 that keeps going a little longer.

 

[Bruiser]

Yeah, I am using Aerotech reloadables now and not really wanting to bring in another system.

Shoot, I just realized something that is going to bother me. I believe the aft 3/8th inch of the plastic fin can is actually the motor nozzle. So if I add the Estes retainer to the end of the molded plastic fin can it will really throw the scale looks off quite a bit back there.


I could trim it back 1/4 inch without much work but that is not really going to help the looks much. I think I am going to chop off the 3/8ths altogether then ream out the opening so I can recess the retainer up inside the fin can so that only 3/8ths inch of the retainer sticks out. That will keep the aft looking scale

-Bob

 

[K'Tesh]

K-Tesh,
your build is the main one that I found. Lots of great info in there. I'm not sure if Wendy's is still selling True Moo milk though but I am going to use a Estes 29mm retainer anyways. I love the payload bay idea and will probably do that mod as well. Did you use tiny screws to hold it together? So no OR sim? Do you remember what your weight came out to be?

Hi Bruiser,
There's a number of other products that have the same size neck/lid that the Wendy's True Moo Milk comes with. I find them here in China all the time. If you look at any convenience store's drink section, you're likely to find something suitable.

The payload bay wasn't my idea.... I found it here (and it was linked to in the post I linked to above). I didn't get to finish mine before I moved to China, and it's currently under my mom's house. I still haven't managed to complete the BT-60 based Estes D-Region Tomahawk, and it's a simple 4FNC... W/O the plastic fin parts. So, I'm not in any position to give/remember the weight of the kit.

Now that we have OR 22.02 (and today OR 23.09 dropped) I might be able to sim up the kit proper, but only when I get my hands on an original (so I can take measurements).

K'Tesh

 

[Bruiser]

We don't need no stinkin' milk bottles, we've got Estes hookin' us up now, lol! Although I bet this is not anything they ever dreamed up. Only a sick man who hates himself would do all this, ha-ha!

So you can see a lot in the first photo. Yep, I cut off the engine nozzle part, then I routed the hell out of the inside of the fin can so the Estes retainer would slide in. I cut out two 1/8" ply centering rings to fit inside the fin can. With the aft ring position at the rear opening for the fin, the retainer sticks out 7/16", which is perfect. I will glue the mid centering ring just in front of the fin opening so the fins will be captured by the centering ring. I also cut out a 1/8" ply forward centering ring that fits inside the BT-65 body tube.


Here's the "assembled" view. I am very happy


I guess this is now an official build thread, lol!

I read thru that link and I was surprised to read the payload bay is just friction fitted with tape on the inside when you consider the motors it was launched with to altitudes of a mile!

-Bob

 

[Art Upton]

I have a few of those still in my stash. I never had issues flying them at our club on E9s and F20s but I guess if you have larger fields go for it.

I might build another as my work horse Tomahawk is all beat up and missing fins now.

I always used the Eliminator [Enerjet 1340] as the 29mm Hot Rod, still have those in my stash as well...

 

[DigBaddy]

We don't need no stinkin' milk bottles, we've got Estes hookin' us up now, lol! Although I bet this is not anything they ever dreamed up. Only a sick man who hates himself would do all this, ha-ha!

So you can see a lot in the first photo. Yep, I cut off the engine nozzle part, then I routed the hell out of the inside of the fin can so the Estes retainer would slide in. I cut out two 1/8" ply centering rings to fit inside the fin can. With the aft ring position at the rear opening for the fin, the retainer sticks out 7/16", which is perfect. I will glue the mid centering ring just in front of the fin opening so the fins will be captured by the centering ring. I also cut out a 1/8" ply forward centering ring that fits inside the BT-65 body tube.
View attachment 615782

Here's the "assembled" view. I am very happy
View attachment 615781

I guess this is now an official build thread, lol!

I read thru that link and I was surprised to read the payload bay is just friction fitted with tape on the inside when you consider the motors it was launched with to altitudes of a mile!

-Bob

I would be happy with that too. It looks great! Nice work

 

[Bruiser]

I didn't get a whole lot done today. I spent the morning searching for a Dubro 8-32 blind nut for the lower rail button attachments. All I could find was a HUGE blind nut that I bought off Amazon not realizing it was double the size of the Dubro nuts. It was awhile before I gave up the search and decided to take the huge one to the grinder but it turned out it would work as needed. I fabbed up a plywood spacer and epoxied it all together and the fit worked out real nice snuggling right in between the fin can and motor tube.


From there I decided to trim the tabs on the ttw fins only the tabs don't reach the motor tube. They go thru the wall for more gluing area I would guess but not all the way to the motor tube. Seems a bit weird but I guess that is less work for me



Lastly I made the laundry shelf/shock cord mount/upper rail button mount. It still needs to be glued into the coupler.



-Bob

 

[Bruiser]

I was just thinking that this would be a nice conversion to dual deploy.

I dug thru my box of Estes parts and found a 4" BT-65 coupler but it wouldn't fit inside the body tubes. It was very close but just wouldn't go.

I looked at dual deploy altimeters again. Eggtimer, MissileWorxs, Perfect Timer and they all still seem to complicated for me.

I guess it's gonna be the JLRC and Altimeter One for this rocket

-Bob

 

[Bruiser]

Decided to keep it simple because it will get out to the field that way.

I epoxied the shelf/shock cord mount/upper rail button mount into the 3" coupler that came with the kit then coated the inside of the assembly with some epoxy to toughen it up a bit. I glued the two body tubes together and applied cwf to the seams and the body tube joint. After sanding the joint area needed a touch more filler. Waiting for that to dry a bit so I can sand it


I have glued up the fin can. I used regular JB Weld for the centering rings and some SCIGRIP #16 Acrylic Plastic Cement on the plastic. There's not a whole lot of plastic gluing on just the can. Then I added the fins with the plastic cement. Now that's a lot of gluing and a very tedious task to have it come out neat. I did still manage to get a little squeeze out that I need to clean up but they feel very strong so I think I got a good bond. I was able to clean up the excess pretty easily by scrapping it off with a single edge razor blade.


I think I am going to prime the body tube and get it totally prepped for paint before I glue it on to the fin can. It seems it'll be easier that way. That way I can spray as many coats as needed to get a nice smooth finish and not have to worry about tapping off the fin can (or risk filling in the moulded details with paint).

I am also wondering about primering the plastic parts. I wonder if the Rustoleum Auto Primer will work well on this material. It does say it is for use on metal, wood and fiberglass surfaces. I have used it on many nosecones without issue but this plastic is different.

-Bob

 

[Bruiser]

I also need to figure this out. This is the payload bay mentioned in K'Tesh post (#13). Not having much (err, none really) experience with av bays I need help understanding what I am looking at here


First I see the eyelet at the bottom. Do you think it is attached to the av bay at all or do you think it just screws into a plywood plate glued to the inside of the nose cone?

Ok then there is the cardboard tube. I see the wraps of masking tape to keep it centered. Do you think there are just three wraps (one unseen in the lower section) that keep it centered and in the nose cone? I don't see any screws holding it in. Could it be glued into the bottom half and then the top just slips over the masking tape and whalla?

What holds the altimeter in place? I recently bought a Jolly Logic Altimeter One that I would like to use. I imagine that it need to be secured inside the cardboard tube so it doesn't bounce around. Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Bob

 

[Bruiser]

Been a minute but I did get a little work done. Fin can and body tube were primered separately. I did end up using a slight bit of glazing putty where I glued the fins on. The glue was a bit wavy and just needed a little smoothing out. The body tube has been glued to the fin can with epoxy now. I think a light sanding maybe followed by one last coat of primer and she'll be ready for some white paint.



I need to figure out where I'm headed with the nose cone/payload bay. Still hoping for some thoughts on the payload area. Any suggestions? I know you guys know a lot more regarding them than I do. You have too, cause I know nothing

Thanks,
-Bob

 

[Bruiser]

Been working on her a bit. I've got the painting done on the lower part of the rocket


Still need help with the "payload bay" area. Maybe I should post for help on that in another area.

Meanwhile, I can put on a few decals and clear coat over them.

-Bob

 

[K'Tesh]

I also need to figure this out. This is the payload bay mentioned in K'Tesh post (#13). Not having much (err, none really) experience with av bays I need help understanding what I am looking at here
View attachment 616367

First I see the eyelet at the bottom. Do you think it is attached to the av bay at all or do you think it just screws into a plywood plate glued to the inside of the nose cone?

Ok then there is the cardboard tube. I see the wraps of masking tape to keep it centered. Do you think there are just three wraps (one unseen in the lower section) that keep it centered and in the nose cone? I don't see any screws holding it in. Could it be glued into the bottom half and then the top just slips over the masking tape and whalla?

What holds the altimeter in place? I recently bought a Jolly Logic Altimeter One that I would like to use. I imagine that it need to be secured inside the cardboard tube so it doesn't bounce around. Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Bob

I'm certain the eyelet attached to a plywood plate glued inside the nosecone, and that's how I would do it too.

The cardboard tube was likely one that the maker found that fit inside the NC with the tape you can see wrapped around it to make it snug (likely 4 bands of tape wrapped around it (the ones you can't see are likely permanently attached to the aft part of the NC with epoxy)).

To make one, I'd use a BT-65 tube taken from an Olympus or Green Eggs kit (if I can't get one elsewhere (It's 2:15am Local, I'm tired, and I'm not spending time to search now (Check erockets.biz to see if they're available))), or a tube coupler. If needed I'd cut a piece of BT-65 down to form a tube coupler (again, I'm not going to do the search to find the links to how to make one right now). The sled in the photo (the grey green thing seen inside the window of the inner cardboard tube) is likely made from fiberglass, and it's slid inside the improvised tube coupler. It likely isn't locked down with any screws, and just held in place by friction. I'm guessing that the forward section of the NC is slid over the tube coupler, and secured to the aft section with some clear tape just before flight.

The window cut out of the cardboard tube is likely how the maker turns on the electronics easily.

 

[Bruiser]

I do have some BT65 tube and couplers that I could try. I understand the pieces used, just not the mechanics which I guess just comes down to friction fitting the parts. The nose cone just friction fits over the cardboard tube, the sled just friction fits in the the cardboard tube. I just the altimeter could be rubber banded to the sled for "mounting"?

Thanks for your reply K'Tesh. It is what I was thinking but I couldn't wrap my head around the friction fit part of it. I thought I was missing something

-Bob

 

[Art Upton]

I do have some BT65 tube and couplers that I could try. I understand the pieces used, just not the mechanics which I guess just comes down to friction fitting the parts. The nose cone just friction fits over the cardboard tube, the sled just friction fits in the the cardboard tube. I just the altimeter could be rubber banded to the sled for "mounting"?

Thanks for your reply K'Tesh. It is what I was thinking but I couldn't wrap my head around the friction fit part of it. I thought I was missing something

-Bob

Yes, a JL Alt could be rubber banded, put a very small screw into the plastic nose cone into the craft tube to hold it in place and do that on the side other then the JL ALT is mounted on.

 

[K'Tesh]

I don't know how heavy the altimeter is, but it's likely very light.

If you want, you could secure the altimeter to the sled with zip ties, and use something to pin, or secure the sled to the aft portion of the AV bay. The mass shouldn't be too much, and it shouldn't be concentrated on the forward portion of the nosecone. If it was, it would be more likely to break free upon deployment, but I'm sure that a single wrap of clear plastic tape could be used to (overkill) secure the forward and aft sections of the nosecone. Honestly, a single piece of tape, say 1" long x 1/2" wide would likely hold the whole thing together when using a standard Estes motor's ejection charge (you're not firing a bullet, you're (more likely) firing a feather (with a bang snap firework)).

You probably don't even need a sled... You could attach a small length of Kevlar to the aft portion, and tie the altimeter to it. The sled just holds it in place on the pad for you to easily turn it on just prior to launch.

 

[Bruiser]

So several days ago I saw this thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/nose-cone-payload-bay-now-in-24mm.183527/ about building a payload bay in a nose cone. I thought it was pretty slick but didn't see how to apply it to this nose cone/payload bay.

Well today I was walking by the counter on my way out the door with a BT-65 coupler in hand when I saw this Dunkin' Iced Coffee bottle sitting there


I thought "wow, that cap looks about the same size as this coupler". I grabbed the bottle and headed to the shop. I took a look at things and it turns out my BT-65 coupler will not fit inside the nose cone. I also tried to fit it into the body tube and it was to big there too. I guess the BT-65 tube size changed a little since this kit was made . So then I checked the fit of the bottle cap and the threaded area of the bottle. Turns out there is about 1/32 slop with the bottle cap and the nose cone and about 3/32 slop with the payload area and the threaded area of the bottle.

I got to thinking if I could glue the cap in the nose cone portion and the threaded are inside the payload part then I could screw the nose cone onto the payload and theoretically have easy access to a "secure" payload area. Here's a shot:


Assembled would look something like this:


That would give me a payload length of about 4 inches, plenty enough for my little JL altimeter. I am a little concerned about what glue to use. I think that since the nose portion only has about 1/32 play I'll just rough up the inside of the nose cone and the outside of the bottle cap and JB weld it in place. For the payload area I think I will make a centering ring to get rid of the slop and follow the same protocol of roughing the areas up and using JB weld.

Think it'll work?

-Bob

 

[K'Tesh]

A wrap or two of masking tape could take out the slop, and hold both parts securely. Then you epoxy them in place (perhaps with a quick tack of gap filling CA glue). I'd do one end first, prop it up, so the part is vertical (the side being done being held below the other while it cures (to prevent the opposite end being permanently glued to the side being done)), then let it set while using tape to hold the two parts together in alignment. After that, I'd do the other side, and again, using tape to hold the two parts together in alignment while it cures. You could also cut out the top off of the bottle cap, and have a full length payload bay.

Also, you might be able to increase your contact surface of the clear part with a second bottle cap that has the top cut off. Slide it over the underside of the clear part, fuse the parts together with heat or with epoxy, then use tape to reinforce the joint and take out the slop before gluing it into the lower portion of the NC.

I don't have time to do the research, so please answer me this... Does the BT-65, or its coupler fit inside the D-Region's nosecone? If it's too small, you can shim it with tape. If it's too big, you can make it smaller (but I don't have time to tell you how right now).

 

[Bruiser]

The BT-65 coupler will not fit inside the nose cone or the body tube that came with the kit. It is a little bigger. I could probably peel a layer or two off but now that I am going this way I don't need it.

I made a few plywood pieces. The centering ring for the bottle threads and the plate for attaching the screw eye.


I JB Welded a nut plate to the plywood and JB Welded the plate to the bottom of the of the payload area. I used the screw and the nut to hold it all in place while it sets



I wrapped a 1/4" wide piece of tape around the bottom of the cap to take out all the slop. Then I applied some JB Weld to the inside shoulder of the nose cone and inserted the cap into the nose cone. It is resting vertically while the JB Weld sets. This is regular JB Weld so it takes hours. Once it is dry, I will dig out the wrap of tape and fill the void with JB Weld.


I had not thought about removing the top of the bottle cap but that is a great idea. I can always do that if it turns out I need more room.

-Bob

 

[K'Tesh]

Looks good so far.

Make sure you get some epoxy or JB Weld on the threads of the eyebolt. You don't want it unscrewing as it comes down and the nosecone falling off.