Any Tips for my L2?

[Mao_Zedung]

Hey there! I’m looking to start the process of getting my l2 cert. I got my L1 a few months ago and have since flown several L1 sized flights. It’s been a blast, albeit a giant engine sized hole in my wallet, and I want to know how to continue. I’m looking at getting the max performance firestick for the launch.

Can someone explain how sheer pins work and otherwise just give me helpful tips for my L2 certification?

 

[Voyager1]

Have a look at this thread discussing shear pins
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/shear-pin-placement-and-usage-question.137367/
There are probably others on the forum.

 

[kswing]

I have a MAC Performance Rayzor and it is a good kit and the company was easy to work with. I've launched it supersonic to over 8000' on a K motor. I did not use shear pins with it. I used friction fit and it worked well. Just be sure the nose is snug enough and ground test your charges to be sure they are adequate and be sure your drogue charge isn't excessive. I typically try to get the nose to fit so that I can pick up the whole rocket by the nose and shake it a bit without it coming apart. Shear pins do work well and reduce the chance of shaking out the main at apogee, but, they are not always needed.

 

[thzero]

Hey there! I’m looking to start the process of getting my l2 cert. I got my L1 a few months ago and have since flown several L1 sized flights. It’s been a blast, albeit a giant engine sized hole in my wallet, and I want to know how to continue. I’m looking at getting the max performance firestick for the launch.

Can someone explain how sheer pins work and otherwise just give me helpful tips for my L2 certification?

You don't need shear pins on a L2 flight. Shear pins can be recommended, but not always, necessary if using dual deployment techniques (JLCR, other chute releases, electronic altimeters, etc).

Other than passing the test, the bare bones L2 is the same as the L1 except a bigger motor, and generally bigger rocket.

 

[cls]

Contrary to popular misconception... L2 does not require electronics, dual deploy, shear pins, none of that. Don't try to bust the waiver.

Low and slow, gentle landing, get it back in flyable condition. Done

BTW your best performance per motor $ is with skinnier rockets. Frontal area dominates the drag. Look at the frontal area of minimum diameter rockets. For example, 98mm is more than double 75mm! That's a lot of drag.

 

[MarsLander]

Find a mentor/TAP/sponsor EARLY in your process. I found one close to the end of my build. I wish I would have done it from the start. Having someone to call and bounce ideas/support has been INVALUABLE.

 

[thzero]

Find a mentor/TAP/sponsor EARLY in your process. I found one close to the end of my build. I wish I would have done it from the start. Having someone to call and bounce ideas/support has been INVALUABLE.

For l2? Not really needed.

 

[sharkbait]

For l2? Not really needed.

A mentor is a great asset for any level from 0 to 3 to class 3

 

[MarsLander]

For l2? Not really needed.

You are technically correct. However, I have learned a lot, I have someone to ask questions, and having reviewed everything, the RSO review is minimal on cert day (my TAP is well respected in my area). My advice stands; it would be the first thing I would do if I did it over. I also have a friend and lifelong mentor.

 

[Jackasmacka]

In my opinion, L2 certification is all about getting familiar with controlling your recovery through more advanced recovery systems - dual deployment - and onboard avionics.

Repurposing your L1 with an avionics bay is a good and cheaper path if you are able to.

 

[sharkbait]

In my opinion, L2 certification is all about getting familiar with controlling your recovery through more advanced recovery systems - dual deployment - and onboard avionics.

Repurposing your L1 with an avionics bay is a good and cheaper path if you are able to.

The levels mostly allow you to fly bigger motors. L1 bumps you up to H & I motors, no electronics or DD required. L2 bumps you up to J, K, & L motors, again no electronics or DD required. L3 bumps you up to M, N, & O motors, again DD is not required but electronics are required and as there are no L3 motors with motor ejection there really wouldn’t be an option to do otherwise

 

[Voyager1]

In my opinion, L2 certification is all about getting familiar with controlling your recovery through more advanced recovery systems - dual deployment - and onboard avionics.

Repurposing your L1 with an avionics bay is a good and cheaper path if you are able to.

Advanced recovery systems using electronics for single or dual deployment can easily be used with smaller mid-powered rockets. In fact, it's a good place to start this journey. There's no need to wait for HPR flights to get the experience.

 

[OverTheTop]

Checklist. Make one, and follow it during the launch prep, racking on the pad, and recovery. Have somebody else hold the checklist and check things off as you call them.

You can do the checklist yourself for later flights but stress levels are up on cert day .

 

[tsmith1315]

In my opinion, L2 certification is all about getting familiar with controlling your recovery through more advanced recovery systems -

I will carefully disagree, as I don’t want to discourage a new forum member and this was simply stated as an opinion.

L2 flights - post certification - with the generally larger airframes and higher altitudes are certainly a great opportunity to take up avionics, if you haven’t already.

But the L2 certification flight itself is just a breakpoint so you can’t go straight from a baby H-flight to an O- flight like you could in the past.

Of course, your choice of L2 cert motor may demand you use electronic ejection. Otherwise, it’s a matter of personal choice and comfort with your flight skills.


Bottom line, stated succinctly:

Other than passing the test, the bare bones L2 is the same as the L1 except a bigger motor

 

[OverTheTop]

Other than passing the test, the bare bones L2 is the same as the L1 except a bigger motor, and generally bigger rocket.

So they are not the same, but similar .

 

[thzero]

So they are not the same, but similar .

Well certainly not exactly the same

 

[TheTank]

In my opinion, L2 certification is all about getting familiar with controlling your recovery through more advanced recovery systems - dual deployment - and onboard avionics.

Repurposing your L1 with an avionics bay is a good and cheaper path if you are able to.

Agreed. And I did the same with my original L1 rocket. i was already learning DD so I flew it only a couple times when i first got my L1 and then swapped it to DD.

IMO, achieving L2 takes no more skill that achieving L1 currently besides passing a test they give you the answers to if you go the motor eject method. Heck, if you have the waiver altitude, you can put a 38mm J in most of the popular L1 rockets these days. Electronics/Dual deployment is easy and something I learned flying G motors with. I often find that those that stress that folks should keep it simple and avoid dual deployment just have very little experience with it - some no experience at all and very little overall HP experience. I have chute releases get tangled up/wrapped up as shock cords spin plenty of times.... but I have had ZERO dual deployment failures in literally hundreds of DD flights. Some folks will treat certification as a merit badge and just want to get it. If you're not learning anything knew and developing your skills in the hobby, what's the point? If its bragging rights, what is there really to brag about?

 

[thzero]

Electronics/Dual deployment is easy and something I learned flying G motors with.

Can't agree more here... too many posts seem to think that E/DD requires large, and expensive rockets, and motors. My first E/DD (not count JLCR based ones) were on BT70 and BT80 body tube based rockets on F and G motors! Heck I have some fully 3d printed (which tend to be heavier than more traditional materials) 54mm and 65mm rockets that are running on Gs with full on E/DD. The exact same set of electronics used in my mid power rockets were used in my Level 2 rocket which used E/DD, so its not like an additional investment is necessarily needed as you look to do E/DD with larger rockets.

 

[TheTank]

Can't agree more here... too many posts seem to think that E/DD requires large, and expensive rockets, and motors. My first E/DD (not count JLCR based ones) were on BT70 and BT80 body tube based rockets on F and G motors! Heck I have some fully 3d printed (which tend to be heavier than more traditional materials) 54mm and 65mm rockets that are running on Gs with full on E/DD. The exact same set of electronics used in my mid power rockets were used in my Level 2 rocket which used E/DD, so its not like an additional investment is necessarily needed as you look to do E/DD with larger rockets.

Exactly. And at current prices, you can get two Missleworks RRC2s for less than the cost of one chute release... and if you wanted, rotate sleds among rockets.

 

[Handeman]

I agree with @TheTank & @thzero. DD is easy. I started with my L1 cert back in '08 and have never looked back. I think it is much more dependable and predictable than either motor eject or JLCR. You don't have to worry about drilling the right delays, or folding the chute correctly for the JLCR. And you can move things from rocket to rocket if you want. The altimeter for my L1 cert is now the primary in my L3 cert rocket. It's just easier in my opinion.

 

[jmasterj]

I don't think easier is the right word. DD is much more prep work (though that might be my inexperience talking). My limited experience (8 flights) does agree with the others, though; it just works better than the alternatives.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I have been a TAP since 1997.
Easiest way to L2 would be to build a 5.5" (Magnum) to 7.5" (Warlock) cardboard (LOC) rocket and fly it on something like a J350 with motor ejection.
Most fun and learning is to build a 4" cardboard rocket with an altimeter bay. Have the booster section open so you can use either motor or altimeter ejection. Fly it on large L0 or most L1 motors and practice your electronic ejection. When ready, fly it on a small J for L2. Have fun with the process! I see about 1/2 the people I certify L3 have gone through the process quickly and then leave the hobby.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I don't think easier is the right word. DD is much more prep work (though that might be my inexperience talking). My limited experience (8 flights) does agree with the others, though; it just works better than the alternatives.

It takes me 20-30 min to prep a dd rocket. I prefer doing it at home where there are no distractions or wind to mess things up. Tape starter to fin. At field, put on pad, arm altimeter, insert starter, and go. All my HPR rockets are dd.

 

[Handeman]

I don't think easier is the right word. DD is much more prep work (though that might be my inexperience talking). My limited experience (8 flights) does agree with the others, though; it just works better than the alternatives.

Maybe that's my 16 years and hundreds of DD flights that's talking. I find it "easier" to prep DD, not necessarily quicker, than calculating motor delays, drilling delays, including charges on motor assembly, etc. All of the motor delay is different for every rocket with every motor. With DD, the prep is the same for all of my rockets with any motor, the only difference is the amount of BP to use with each rocket, which I write on the coupler tube of the av-bay so I don't even have to look it up.

 

[rcktnut]

I see about 1/2 the people I certify L3 have gone through the process quickly and then leave the hobby.

I've seen a couple that have certified L3 years ago and haven't flown an M.N,O since!! DD has it's place is nice, but it defiantly takes me longer to prep than motor ejection. I have 2 JLCR's and like them too for something that is impractical for DD or the rockets already built that I have that I can now fly on bigger motors to higher altitudes.

 

[b.wieting]

Though ignorant of failure statistics, I have much greater confidence with E/DD than with motor eject. A suggestion: write your checklist in advance, edit and refine it in practice. Prep is not especially harder but is more complex.

 

[OverTheTop]

^^^ Well said.

 

[b.wieting]

One more observation: E/DD in a minimum diameter rocket like my Blackhawk38 required more careful layout than my bigger rockets and even some creativity (well, finding creative ideas from other fliers!). My favorite: "Finger Trap Technique".

 

[kjhambrick]

One more observation: E/DD in a minimum diameter rocket like my Blackhawk38 required more careful layout than my bigger rockets and even some creativity (well, finding creative ideas from other fliers!). My favorite: "Finger Trap Technique".

+1 @b.wieting !

TRF has been a wealth of knowledge for an old timer like me who needs to learn new materials and methods !

-- kjh