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Originally posted by LtSharpe
Not to fall into habit of picking nits but I'll bite :) I got this impression from a high power rocketry forum I used to read on the net. I don't know the link anymore. If I come across it I'll post it,, but debating whether or not they do this was not my point.

Debating it isn't my point, either. Finding out if what you said is true was my point, because I'd be interested in seeing what systems they use, and how commonly they're used.
 
One outfit was called pro launch systems which made wireless launchers, probably ejection charge gear to. They also made wireless video gear,, they are now out of business. I suspect their equipment was too expensive.

I think the main unit guys are using now is the WRC2 made by missileworks.com They seem to have the nicest unit around. It's also very pricey. My gadget is a hell of a lot cheaper ;)

Here is the info from their site:


WRC² Wireless Remote Control System

Quantity in Basket: none
Code: MWC-WRC2
Price: $285.00

Shipping Weight: 0.75 pounds



Quantity:

Features and Specifications
Digitally encoded 900 MHz spread spectrum operation
Robust, redundant communications protocol ensures high reliability
2 independent remote control channels with 12 amp FET outputs
Minimum 2 mile line of sight in air operation with 300mw transmitter power
RF groundplane on PC with high reliability surface mount construction
Interface daughter board isolates user connections from the RF assembly
Ideally suited for redundant recovery system backup or remote aerial staging applications
16 bit exclusive transmitter ID allows independent operation / no impounding R/C units
No FCC licensing required / Part 15 compliant
Push button shroud on transmitter prevents accidental triggering
Single pushbutton operation - no ON/OFF or toggle switch combinations required
Audible ejection charge continuity check with 10 µa sample current
Dual antenna system integral to receiver board / no external antenna required
Compression terminal strips for battery, external switch, and ejection charge wiring
DL-123A 3V lithium battery included for transmitter rated for 1-2 years continuous operation
11-14 Vdc external battery required with 40 ma quiescent @ 12Vdc
Receiver board dimensions - 3.25" width x 5.5" long
Receiver weighs only 2.8 oz.
Covered by a full 1 Year Warranty

WRC2.jpg
 
I got one of those 'flying things' too. From the pics it looks the same. It drives two motors. I took the resistor out so left and right stick fire two different outputs. One sets off a siren, so if the rocket gets lost I can make it shriek. The other fires a pyro charge that releases an emergency chute if the rocket is going off course or heading for the ground prematurely.

Now that's a safety measure and like LTSharpe there are no aeromodellers around (it's 27meg AM) or any other interference that I know of. Last time I fired a rocket only one motor lit and it went of course and was heading in the wrong direction with the shute only deploying about 3' from the ground. This way I can fire the emergency chute outa the nose cone when I see it going wrong. Will take a pic and post it tomorrow.
 
I wish this board allowed me to respond directly underneath another post. But anyway about freqs...

According to their so called rules 27 megs is open season which is what the yellow bee uses. So even if one cared about such things, it's not an issue as I have already said, because it doesn't even use 72. I checked the crystal just out curiousity,, also the unit says it's AM which is surprising because unlike my firebird II rc plane which was prone to interference with the transmitter off(spontaneous motor running) this plane never was. The board is also much more sophisticated,, it's almost all surface mount components as opposed to 'through hole' style mounting. It's a hell of a deal if only for the guts. The plane isn't that great. Too susceptible to wind.

I have noticed that with about 12 feet of thick extension cord I do get some voltage drop. I'm going to charge up the battery and see if how much it is affected. I added length because I will be launching some higher power things on c11s and d's and want to arm the unit farther away.
 
Originally posted by LtSharpe
I wish this board allowed me to respond directly underneath another post.

While you can't respond directly underneath another post, you can quote the part of a particular post that you're responding to, by clicking on the little "Quote" button below the post
 
Originally posted by LtSharpe
I wish this board allowed me to respond directly underneath another post.

If you want to respond to a particular point, click on 'quote'.
 
Originally posted by JRThro
Your system is probably pretty safe. But it is not, and can't be, as safe as a hardwired system.

If you agree that his system is probably pretty safe, then why all the negativity? And maybe it's not as safe as a hardwired system; but HPR will never be as safe as LPR, so does that mean we shouldn't get into HPR? Just because something's not "as safe" doesn't mean it's "unsafe".

I have also seen a HPR build where the owner used an R/C backup ejection charge. I'm not saying it's done often, acually I've only seen the one, but this is the only R/C launch controller I've seen too.

Bottom line: An idea has been presented, safety issues and opinions have been addressed. Build and use at your own discression, or not. Moving along now I hope.

Tim
 
Again, not trying to start an argument, but this DOES violate the NAR safety code.

"and will use a launch switch that returns to the "off" position when released"

If I remember correctly, throttle controls for RC aircraft are not spring loaded, returning them to the "off" position. I assume this Xmtr uses a potentiometer to control the input to the motors. What I would do is take apart the Xmtr, then on the output side of the throttle measure the resistance when it is at the Idle position, then when it is at the Full position. Get some resistors from Radio shack, along with a momentary contact normally open SPST switch. Use a system of resistors to get the minimum ohm reading for your throttle, and solder this AND the SPST switch in place of the throttle. It will deliver the same current and be more along the lines of the NAR code.


IMHO, my opinion and thought on what could be done. Test this before you launch a rocket.


Blue
 
If I remember correctly, throttle controls for RC aircraft are not spring loaded,

Actually any of the two stick type controllers are spring loaded. On a real plane setup you set the throttle trim to be just where the motor starts but not quite. Then as you start to push the throttle stick up the voltage is increased to the motor. When you release it, it comes back. This isn't like the ones where the throttle is set by a sliding potentiometer on the back of the unit.

The rest of this is just in general response not to anyone personally:
As far as the NAR code goes, again I really could care less. They aren't the law, they're just recommendations. Good ones in general I'll admit, and ones that any youngster should follow or anyone else who doesn't understand anything more sophisticated than your basic estes controller, is perfectly happy with it, or doesn't want to experiment. But again there is no law against this, no more so than there is against any other rc hobby. I'm amazed that some folks are so prickly about this. What started as an honest to goodness hi guys, love the hobby, heres my idea, has turned into a small war. hehe I can shrug it off, I suspect a great many have been inspired, and the nitpickers have had their fun to. It's the same with every internet forum I've ever been on. Whether it's the 'off topic' police or the grammar patrol.

Again in closing,, the only safety issue is you must remember to turn the receiver off when you go back up to hook up another new engine. If you forget to do this then yes it could prematurely go off. There is no other issue than that, because when you arm the receiver you are the 'required' 15 feet away or whatever you feel is safe.
 
My two cents worth. Probably worth about that. ;)

NAR Safety Code:
This isn't law, but it's much more than a bunch of cute rules for the little kids who don't know better or know more. This code (and the High Power one) were worked out over time by true experts as a way to codify best practices in rocketry in a straightforward form. It's a good way to protect rocketeers, the public, and our great hobby. Plenty of rocketeers aren't NAR or Tripoli members but still folow the same safety codes because they make so much sense. There are laws governing safety aspects, giving regulation powers to the FAA, local Fire Marshals, and the BATFE, to name the main ones.

Arming:
Your first posts described and showed the unit with very short leads to the pad. Turning one's back and crouching wouldn't be enough to make that safe. As you've stated, the system (or a remote arming/power switch) can be positioned the specified (yeah, by the codes) distance away from the pad for that amount and configuration of total impulse, and it should be. That's an easy solution to that part.

Unexpected Firing;
I think one of the posts on this one got missed or misunderstood. The poster gave a scenario where a radio launcher like this one could be unsafe. It went like this.
- The controller is turned off
- The igniters are hooked up.
- The controller is turned on from 15 (or 30, or whatever) feet away.
- The rocketeer walks out to his chosen launch point 250 feet away.
- While he walks, the pad tips over, and a stray radio signal causes a launch while the pad is in this position.
That's a valid concern. Even if the pad doesn't tip over, a plane could enter the area, and the rocketeer might not be able to hold up the launch (again, due to a spurious signal), as he easily could if holding a wired remote.

Controls:
Joy sticks, even spring loaded ones, don't make good launch switches, in my opinion, as they can easily be activated by bumping your arm, dropping the remote, etc.

Encoded Signals:
I'm an electrical engineer, and I personally wouldn't be comfortable with an unencoded radio control system. If one was in use, I'd fly elsewhere or at a different time. I've heard too many stories about the problems they can have, and I understand the engineering reasons why. Depending on the environment, one might get away with it most of the time, but it would be a cumulative risk that would reach out and bite, to one degree or another, eventually.

Ideas For Simple Modifications To Increase Safety:
I'd do the following if I was committed to using an unencoded radio remote.
- Definitely use a long wire (as you described) to arm the receiver.
- Use the clearest legal and proper band I could find for my area, even if it costs more.
- I'd look into using a garage door opener circuit or some similar thing to get digital coding, or I'd roll my own. (OK, I'm a EE. That one wouldn't be in the simple category in general.)
- The control has two channels. I'd either set it up so that both channels had to be activated (in opposite directions, to make accidental activation harder).
-OR-
- Use one channel as a way to cause a remote deactivation (servo pulls an arming pin out, etc.). That way if a plane shows up or the pad tips over, you hit the deactivate switch, and nothing can cause it to launch until the rocketeer goes back to the pad and fixes things. The arming circuit could activate a relay latch, and the disarm could break that connection via another relay, thus necessitating a physical return to the pad. Plenty of options here. The key is that once the disarm signal is invoked, no radio signal can re-arm the receiver.
- Using something besides the joysticks to control the signal. Remotes can be dropped, and inevitably eventually will. Kids will do it just about every time. A shrouded or recessed button is better.
- You want an arming pin or similar on the remote controller too.

Safety is paramount. It trumps coolness, convenience, and everything else.

OK. You may conclude that it's worth what you paid for it, ;) :D but that's my two cents worth.

As others have stated, no-one wants to get anyone's goat or toss wet blankets, but sharing information on technique, usage histories, and most importantly, safety, is what the forum's all about. As I tell my family, "Safety is part of the skill." I get a kick out of engineering systems that perform in safe and predictable ways, knowing the reasons why, and honing my skills through practice and through other hobbyists who share their knowledge and experiences with me. I'm neither the most experienced person here nor the least, so I can learn and share at the same time. That, and the sheer pleasant camaraderie, are what bring me back to the Forum again and again, and I think that's the case for most of the people here. :cool: :cool:

Welcome to the club. I think you're going to like it. :D
 
I think the best point that can be made about this is that its a good system for LT, at his particular launch location, and thats about it. 27Mhz AM is a dirty band, prone to interference, compared to 72Mhz FM ,which is why its a ground only band. A better choice would be a PPM/PCM modulation unit which would have fail safe options, but that shoots your budget in the foot.

Where I live in central NJ, LT's system would be totally unfeasible, we get all kinds of stray signals on ground AM, the farther away youwalk from the receiver, the more likely the stray signals can stomp on the transmitter signal and cause a false launch. I could well imagine turning on the receiver, walking to my launch point and having the rocket go up behind my back while I'm still walking. Plus, I'm within a mile of an R/C flying field at the park I use.

If I were in your shoes, I would not post instructions on making it for fear that someone in a more urban area doing a net search come across and think its a suitable launch system to build. For you out in the sticks, by yourself, its fine, for most anyone else, it would be prone to false launches, those cheap little AM transmitters are too prone to 'frequency walk' for my taste. JMHO.

That said, its a neat hack. ;)

Lugnut
 
Originally posted by Mad Rocketeer
My two cents worth. Probably worth about that. ;)

NAR Safety Code:
This isn't law, but it's much more than a bunch of cute rules for the little kids who don't know better or know more. This code (and the High Power one) were worked out over time by true experts as a way to codify best practices in rocketry in a straightforward form. It's a good way to protect rocketeers, the public, and our great hobby. Plenty of rocketeers aren't NAR or Tripoli members but still folow the same safety codes because they make so much sense...

Arming:
... As you've stated, the system (or a remote arming/power switch) can be positioned the specified (yeah, by the codes) distance away from the pad for that amount and configuration of total impulse, and it should be. That's an easy solution to that part.

Unexpected Firing;
I think one of the posts on this one got missed or misunderstood. The poster gave a scenario where a radio launcher like this one could be unsafe...

That's a valid concern. Even if the pad doesn't tip over, a plane could enter the area, and the rocketeer might not be able to hold up the launch (again, due to a spurious signal), as he easily could if holding a wired remote.

Controls:
Joy sticks, even spring loaded ones, don't make good launch switches, in my opinion, as they can easily be activated by bumping your arm, dropping the remote, etc.

Encoded Signals:
I'm an electrical engineer, and I personally wouldn't be comfortable with an unencoded radio control system. If one was in use, I'd fly elsewhere or at a different time. I've heard too many stories about the problems they can have, and I understand the engineering reasons why. Depending on the environment, one might get away with it most of the time, but it would be a cumulative risk that would reach out and bite, to one degree or another, eventually.

Ideas For Simple Modifications To Increase Safety:
...
- The control has two channels. I'd either set it up so that both channels had to be activated (in opposite directions, to make accidental activation harder).
-OR-
- Use one channel as a way to cause a remote deactivation (servo pulls an arming pin out, etc.). That way if a plane shows up or the pad tips over, you hit the deactivate switch, and nothing can cause it to launch until the rocketeer goes back to the pad and fixes things. The arming circuit could activate a relay latch, and the disarm could break that connection via another relay, thus necessitating a physical return to the pad. Plenty of options here. The key is that once the disarm signal is invoked, no radio signal can re-arm the receiver.


Safety is paramount. It trumps coolness, convenience, and everything else.

OK. You may conclude that it's worth what you paid for it, ;) :D but that's my two cents worth.

As others have stated, no-one wants to get anyone's goat or toss wet blankets, but sharing information on technique, usage histories, and most importantly, safety, is what the forum's all about. As I tell my family, "Safety is part of the skill." I get a kick out of engineering systems that perform in safe and predictable ways, knowing the reasons why, and honing my skills through practice and through other hobbyists who share their knowledge and experiences with me. I'm neither the most experienced person here nor the least, so I can learn and share at the same time. That, and the sheer pleasant camaraderie, are what bring me back to the Forum again and again, and I think that's the case for most of the people here. :cool: :cool:

Welcome to the club. I think you're going to like it. :D

What a great, well-written, and well-reasoned post!

Thanks for posting it.

I particularly liked your clever suggestions of ways to use both channels as a means to prevent accidental firings.

Also, I think I would want to consider replacing the joystick-driven analog potentiometers with actual on/off switches, because I'm not so sure about using analog signals based on joystick position as the means to launch rockets. Earlier in this thread, someone else posted a way to do just that.
 
I could well imagine turning on the receiver, walking to my launch point and having the rocket go up behind my back while I'm still walking. Plus, I'm within a mile of an R/C flying field at the park I use.

It could do this, but then again, it doesn't matter, you are already far enough away. I have a major freeway full of truckers within a few miles of me,, about 10 miles or so, less in another direction. So far I have no had interference problems. When I operated the airplane as an airplane I also did not have random motor stops and starts,, but I did with the inexpensive planes from hobbyzone ie the firebird II. I think the receiver in this yellow bee must be quite well designed.
 
Mad Rocketeer:
I think the NAR is probably a good thing. From what I have read about some of their rules though and the way their official launches are carried out they seem a bit 'stuffy' to me. My system is only for adults. As a matter of fact if anyone emails me specifically how to build it I have verified that they were an adult first,, ie and responsible for their own actions.

Arming: Yes showing the picture with the short leads was a mistake I'll admit. That was for anything under a d or c11 because frankly those are safer than fireworks and lighting most fireworks is more dangerous. I have an extension cord on it now as can be seen in my other pic. For anyone else I would rocmmend the longer leads to start with on any rocket but again what I had was available and that's what I used. I've sort of come to the conclusion on things that if I can do something for less with what I already have, it makes sense to do so. Estes rockets are pretty tame, if one had gone off at that short distance you would be fine, just covered in smoke.

Scenarious: The one about going off into a crowd could be solved by putting sand bags onto the launcher base feet. Furthermore any rocket could go into a crowd due to improper fin alignment etc etc or windcock. If a launcher did fall over I would expect the rocket not to even go anyway at all actually. I do like your scenario about an airplane. That one is the most valid concern I have heard so far.

"Joy sticks, even spring loaded ones, don't make good launch switches, in my opinion, as they can easily be activated by bumping your arm, dropping the remote, etc."

Yes I would like a a push button with a flip over latch just for kicks if anything else but the whole idea is 'being on the cheap'. I have launched it once accidentally at my observation point by brushing the left throttle stick against my leg. But again, that was a so what kind of thing in my case.

Garage door opener is an interesting idea. I have also thought about using the oppositive throttle control,, the one for steering to engage a relay whose contacts are in series with the other control lines output. Neat idea, one I may implement.


As far as predictability goes, so far the system has worked one hundred percent with no premature launches,, and again if it did you are at the 15 foot distance when it does because unless you have forgotten to turn off the receiver the system is not ON until you walk back and do so.
 
Which goes back to my main point that its a workable 'relatively' safe system for you, as configured, in that particular launch location. The chances of a mishap resulting in any physical harm is pretty low given your particular situation, but it doesn't mean the chance of a mishap by itself is reduced. Again, here in crowded spectrums of NJ, it would probably be amplified, if anything.

I do like Mad Rocketeers idea of incorporating both channels to effect a launch. Thats a pretty sound idea.

How do the horses react to rockets going up?
 
They aren't bothered much. At the most they just snort at me when I carry the launch rod out and trot around a bit but they're fine with it. They liked the model rc planes worse. Lots of snorting over those! And it doesn't even seem to be on the radar of the cattle to the east of us. I wouldn't want something coming down over there though,, under power or just on a chute, that might frighten them. I have about 10 acres to work with, most of it large pastures divivded by fences. Most animals are fine with this sort of thing as long as they can see it does not affect them. We also have bird aviaries and the birds are completely immune to it, they used to be afraid of 4th of july fireworks until we did where they could see them, then they understood I guess where the whistling and such came from and were calm.

I just don't like craning my neck back, for some being up close like that and watching it go up from beneath may be more of a thrill but I like to be farther away to watch it ascend. Easier to see the altitude that way to. One person who has neck problems has emailed me about instructions for this due to the neck issue.
 
Originally posted by JRThro
What a great, well-written, and well-reasoned post!

Thanks for posting it.

I particularly liked your clever suggestions of ways to use both channels as a means to prevent accidental firings.

. . .
Blush. :eek: Thanks. :D

It's a good point that people of all ages and experience levels read this forum, so the caveats about suitability with respect to launching area, audience, and the like are important. Tough to verify that an e-mail correspondant is really an adult and not merely claiming to be. On the forum, we're guaranteed to be reaching all ages.

Tameness of a rocket is a relative thing, and it depends, as pointed out by LTSharpe and others, on how well the launch goes off. If a rocket that's always been tame before manages to go horizontal or worse, it suddenly becomes quite wild, even on a 1/2A. Rockets are pointy on one end, hot on the other, and they move fast.

I've flown rockets since childhood, with a nice long gap for college and early married life. I joined NAR for the first time this year. I'm not a member of a club and never have been, but I'd like to do it soon for the better launching sites, easy access to new ideas and hands-on advice, and the fellowship. The only NAR event I've attended was the National Sport Launch in Hearne, TX this year. It wasn't stuffy at all. It was a well-run launch, with a nice field, vendors, raffles, people doing competent and friendly jobs as Launch Control Officer, Safety Officer, etc. No-one was being Barny Fife; they were just working hard to make it a safe and fun time for all, and it was. :) In my opinion, NAR and Tripoli both do a great service to our hobby, members and non-members alike, by providing such things as a voice for the hobby in Washington, the excellent safety codes, motor certification (a major item there), technical resources, and much more. I mainly joined in order to support that work.
 
Originally posted by Mad Rocketeer
Blush. :eek: Thanks. :D

It's a good point that people of all ages and experience levels read this forum, so the caveats about suitability with respect to launching area, audience, and the like are important. Tough to verify that an e-mail correspondant is really an adult and not merely claiming to be. On the forum, we're guaranteed to be reaching all ages.

Tameness of a rocket is a relative thing, and it depends, as pointed out by LTSharpe and others, on how well the launch goes off. If a rocket that's always been tame before manages to go horizontal or worse, it suddenly becomes quite wild, even on a 1/2A. Rockets are pointy on one end, hot on the other, and they move fast.

I've flown rockets since childhood, with a nice long gap for college and early married life. I joined NAR for the first time this year. I'm not a member of a club and never have been, but I'd like to do it soon for the better launching sites, easy access to new ideas and hands-on advice, and the fellowship. The only NAR event I've attended was the National Sport Launch in Hearne, TX this year. It wasn't stuffy at all. It was a well-run launch, with a nice field, vendors, raffles, people doing competent and friendly jobs as Launch Control Officer, Safety Officer, etc. No-one was being Barny Fife; they were just working hard to make it a safe and fun time for all, and it was. :) In my opinion, NAR and Tripoli both do a great service to our hobby, members and non-members alike, by providing such things as a voice for the hobby in Washington, the excellent safety codes, motor certification (a major item there), technical resources, and much more. I mainly joined in order to support that work.

If you can, consider going to the 2004 Crossroads of Texas rocketry event on Saturday and Sunday Nov. 20th and 21st, at Hearne. Saturday is for anything commercial from 1/8A to M motors. Sunday is for experimental motors. I'll be there on Saturday with about 10 people from my club, the Challenger Rocket Club, NAR section 498 (https://www.challenger498.org). The event is hosted by NHRC (https://www.nhrc.homestead.com/).

I'm not a member of NAR either, mostly because of the cost. I'm going to ask Santa for a membership for Christmas, though.
 
Originally posted by Mad Rocketeer
I joined NAR for the first time this year. I'm not a member of a club and never have been, but I'd like to do it soon for the better launching sites, easy access to new ideas and hands-on advice, and the fellowship.

The club that I belong to doesn't require you to be a member of the club or the NAR to attend club sport launches and participate.

They do require that you abide by the NAR safety code. The launches are family affairs with every thing from 1/4A to K motors.

Our group is very laid back and far from 'stuffy'. We have a lot of fun.

LT,

I see from your later posts that your system is on 27MHZ which is an "anyone can use it" frequency. Sorry for getting on your case. I thought it was a 72 MHZ system

If anyone asks about your system, please remind them that 72 MHZ is reserved for Aircraft and that 75MHZ is reserved for Surface use.

75MHZ systems are are just as modern (and pricey) as the aircraft systems.
 
Originally posted by BobH48
The club that I belong to doesn't require you to be a member of the club or the NAR to attend club sport launches and participate.

They do require that you abide by the NAR safety code. The launches are family affairs with every thing from 1/4A to K motors.

Our group is very laid back and far from 'stuffy'. We have a lot of fun.

Everything you just said is true for the club that I belong to, except that we're limited to G motors.
 
Originally posted by BobH48
The club that I belong to doesn't require you to be a member of the club or the NAR to attend club sport launches and participate.

They do require that you abide by the NAR safety code. The launches are family affairs with every thing from 1/4A to K motors.

Our group is very laid back and far from 'stuffy'. We have a lot of fun.

LT,

I see from your later posts that your system is on 27MHZ which is an "anyone can use it" frequency. Sorry for getting on your case. I thought it was a 72 MHZ system

If anyone asks about your system, please remind them that 72 MHZ is reserved for Aircraft and that 75MHZ is reserved for Surface use.

75MHZ systems are are just as modern (and pricey) as the aircraft systems.
Yes you are correct I use 27 megs.
I understand your reason about the frequency question if you are in the area of other RC'ers. However since I'm not it wouldn't matter to me what frequency it was on as long as it worked. The gods of of the 'ether' don't know what I'm running and if I was using 72 mhz for an airplane I'd still be 'using' the frequency so what difference does it make what the purpose of the device is. Two airplane guys on 72 megs on the same channel will interfere with one another like anyone else.
 
LTSharpe,
You said way back in the first post of this thread that the reason you made this system was because you like to watch from a distance. Why not use a relay launch system, they're well documented on the forums and will let you stand way back.

Just a thought.
 
because i dont want the hassle of running the wire. I have fences and such to contend with, and if the wind direction changes I like to be able to just pick up the receiver and wire in one arm, the rod in the other, move to a new spot and i'm done. Running 400 feet of wire would be a pain for me. But sure that's a valid method certainly. Just not as practical to me. Frankly this has a certain gee whiz factor as well :)
 
An option I've been considering for rocket recovery is ham radio. It requires a license, but you could stand pretyt much as far back as you wanted (not a good idea cause the pad could tip and you would have a problem there), but the thing is you could (speculation here) use a CTCSS tone (many variations of a CTCSS) and you would have a very good chance of having no interference, even from someone else's tone.

Again, this is purely an idea, probably not done before.



Blue
 
Originally posted by JRThro
If you can, consider going to the 2004 Crossroads of Texas rocketry event on Saturday and Sunday Nov. 20th and 21st, at Hearne. Saturday is for anything commercial from 1/8A to M motors. Sunday is for experimental motors. I'll be there on Saturday with about 10 people from my club, the Challenger Rocket Club, NAR section 498 (https://www.challenger498.org). The event is hosted by NHRC (https://www.nhrc.homestead.com/).

I'm not a member of NAR either, mostly because of the cost. I'm going to ask Santa for a membership for Christmas, though.
I had not heard of that. I'd love to go, but I'll be in Georgia visiting family then. If all goes as usual, I won't get much flying in before Christmas.

The local clubs that I've considered are Austin Area Rocketry Group [AARG] and Heart Of Texas Rocketry Club [HOTROC] . Both are affiliated with both NAR and Tripoli. The Waco club has an N-capable field (late October through mid-April), and the Austin club has one M-capable field (approximately October to February) and one I-capable field (year-round, but used only when the other field is not available). The Austin club does not require membership to observe or fly, but they do require adherence to the safety codes. They also have tiered membership, with the level depending on whether one is a NAR or Tripoli member, where one lives, and whether one flies rockets or merely supports the club. I imagine the Waco club is similar.
 
I made a system almost exactly like yours a while back. I had 100 feet of wire from my controller box to the pad, and then up to 100 yards from there to where I could be located. While it seemed safe I had *5* unexpected fires. I probably launched 30ish times. It was way too many for me. And also I was in the middle of nowhere when they happened. Realizing that I really didn't like the safety record I decided to go with a relay system at the pad. To me I feel much safer than before.

Edward
 
Regarding the poster with the long wired setup, similiar to mine. What made you uneasy? You were quite far away when you armed the beasty. It would be more of a 'downer' for me that they went off early in your case, but it wouldn't be unsafe because you were nowhere near it. I have launched mine a number of times now with no premature launches, I think I lucked out with a receiver which is pretty tight rf wise. Must have good adjacent channel rejection because we have plenty of cbers in the area. TONS of truckers and farm workers using cbs. Everytime I push that throttle control up for Launch I get a little euphoric rush :) I don't think I could ever go back to a push button, except maybe a push button on my throttle control :))) With a latch over it painted with yellow and black warning stripes hehe gleefull fun!
 
Originally posted by JRThro
What a great, well-written, and well-reasoned post!

Thanks for posting it.

I particularly liked your clever suggestions of ways to use both channels as a means to prevent accidental firings.

Also, I think I would want to consider replacing the joystick-driven analog potentiometers with actual on/off switches, because I'm not so sure about using analog signals based on joystick position as the means to launch rockets. Earlier in this thread, someone else posted a way to do just that.
Agreed. It would be cheap and wise to alter the joystick switches to pushbuttons, wired to provide the signal the joystick would have provided in the firing position.

Another scenario where you'd want a remote Disarm switch. A horse or a kid walks up to the pad out of nowhere just as you turn to face the pad from 250 feet away. Murphy's Law can't be evaded forever. :eek:

I have a couple more ideas, so I'll up it to Four Cent's Worth. ;) :D

1.) I'd also add a pushbutton control to the receiver, in case I did want to fly the rocket from the end of the wire. Reasons might be:
* The remote is broken.
* Interference is making the radio unreliable today.
* Just discovered that the remote's batter is dead. Dang! I checked it at home!
* Foot hurts. Don't feel like walking today.
* Etc.
A simple flip or twist switch could select between the two launcher modes. You wouldn't want both to be armed at the same time, for increased reliability.

2.) Since each channel has two directions plus a neutral, up to nine messages can be sent without having to use any partial-levels from the joysticks.
* One of those positions is Off-Off, which means "Do Nothing".
* I'd not use Plus-Off, Minus-Off, Off-Plus, or Off-Minus, for the reasons I gave in my earlier post.
* That leaves four more settings that could be used, especially if the joysticks were replaced with buttons. They could be used for:
A.) Arm 1
B.) Arm 2
C.) Fire
D.) Disarm the receiver/launcher in a way that requires a physical reset at the box itself.

The launch would be accomplished via a sequence of button activations: Arm 1 -then- Arm 2 -then- Fire.

This would make the liklihood of a false launch even more remote, as a series of sequenced false signals would have to occur. In effect, this would be a form of very-low-level coding.

Colored (or otherwise distinguished) lamps could be added to the remote to enable its arming state to be detected at a distance.

For fun, the buttons and lamps could be colored in a sequence like the red-yellow-green lights at a drag strip, and the Disarm button could be labeled "Panic Button" and marked with bright paint and/or funny graphics. I can envision Wyle E. Coyote pressing a button, wild look in his eye, and the dynamite right behind him, courtesy of the Roadrunner. Anything goes! :D

None of these modifications would be expensive or difficult. The most complex would be using relays or the like to accomplish the arming/disarming/firing logic.

With this in place, I'd probably stay at a launch where it was being used, but I'd still treat it as heads-up whenever anything was on the pad.

Alert the horses! :D :cool:
 
You could tied the second motor line to a latching relay or not,, if not then you have to hold the left right stick over(say to the right) to keep it closed for armed,, if it was latching it would just stick until you hit the right stick again. And then the contacts of that relay also close the connection to the ignitor therefore arming the armed receiver hehe Yeah I've thought of all kinds of funny gimmicks to try but it's so elegant and simple and it just works,, why fix it if it ain't broke ;) I did notice ramsey electronics has some uhf encoder and decoders with rf transmission capability,, they look inexpensive. could be something for someone to pay with.
 
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