Yeah, screw it. I’m gonna cross my fingers for next weekend. Besides, I gots rockets to build.
60 Acres Park, Redmond, WA (Seattle area)
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It was snowing in Olympia all morning. Burrrrr!!!! Temps 37 degrees.
It’s a toasty 41 here in north seattle.
This Saturday, the ninth, is looking like the worst day of the week. Every other day before then looks better. Is there anyone who’s interested in a weekday LAUNCH Wednesday, Thursday or Friday?
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Too busy building rockets and painting.
At the rate the weather is looking like, we'll have all weekend for building, alas.
Next week looks even better!!
I hope so, but I don’t have a lot of faith in long term weather forecasts in terms of wind speed
Looks like this field is about 1200x1000. What are the highest you fly this park...just curious...
@BEC is the right person to answer this.
OK, Ken, if you insist
I actually started to answer this a few hours ago starting with "it depends on if you want the model back"...and proceeding to lay out the hazards around the field. The notable ones are a canal on the west side that has taken more than a few rockets (that is, if you clear the tall trees on that side to get to it), the unfriendly (or so I've been told) landowner south of the south field, the hillside with blackberries and houses to the east and the horse farm to the north. The folks at the horse farm will allow recoveries IF you go ask them first. Your model has to clear a couple of rows of trees to get to their farm. The south side of the north field is also lined with trees, then a parking lot, a ditch (that is full of water this time of year) a moderately busy street, then finally the south field before getting to the aforementioned "no recovery" property.
But as a practical matter there is also that the winds seem to go in different directions in layers above the site. Once you get much above 1000 feet your model may go in a completely unexpected direction and speed. I know of models that have been lost well to the northwest beyond the Christmas tree farm which is west of the horse farm that went to an expected ~2K before going that way.
So...as a practical matter, anything much over 1000 feet runs the risk of encountering one of these many hazards. If it's really calm (like it's supposed to be today), one can fly from the north field (which is the larger of the two by about half) to 1200-1500 feet, especially with a streamer or a Chute Release, with a reasonable expectation of being able to recover just by walking up to the model. Personally I've not flown anything higher than about 1200 feet there and a couple of those recoveries were "interesting". But several folks I fly with have flown higher, with mixed results.
So, that's a really long, complicated answer to a simple-sounding question. "Flying the field" at this site is at least as complex as other venues I fly from.
Thanks @BEC I've flown as high as 1720 (Star Orbiter, F15) on a perfect day. But I've also lost rockets in every point of the compass. But what is the technical limit, ignoring hazards and winds? There is a reason I'm not Level 2, I'm never going to memorize these rules.OK, Ken, if you insist
I actually started to answer this a few hours ago starting with "it depends on if you want the model back"...and proceeding to lay out the hazards around the field. The notable ones are a canal on the west side that has taken more than a few rockets (that is, if you clear the tall trees on that side to get to it), the unfriendly (or so I've been told) landowner south of the south field, the hillside with blackberries and houses to the east and the horse farm to the north. The folks at the horse farm will allow recoveries IF you go ask them first. Your model has to clear a couple of rows of trees to get to their farm. The south side of the north field is also lined with trees, then a parking lot, a ditch (that is full of water this time of year) a moderately busy street, then finally the south field before getting to the aforementioned "no recovery" property.
But as a practical matter there is also that the winds seem to go in different directions in layers above the site. Once you get much above 1000 feet your model may go in a completely unexpected direction and speed. I know of models that have been lost well to the northwest beyond the Christmas tree farm which is west of the horse farm that went to an expected ~2K before going that way.
So...as a practical matter, anything much over 1000 feet runs the risk of encountering one of these many hazards. If it's really calm (like it's supposed to be today), one can fly from the north field (which is the larger of the two by about half) to 1200-1500 feet, especially with a streamer or a Chute Release, with a reasonable expectation of being able to recover just by walking up to the model. Personally I've not flown anything higher than about 1200 feet there and a couple of those recoveries were "interesting". But several folks I fly with have flown higher, with mixed results.
So, that's a really long, complicated answer to a simple-sounding question. "Flying the field" at this site is at least as complex as other venues I fly from.
I don't think there's any "technical" limit. It's a field suitable for rockets that fall below those that need a high power waiver from the FAA and there is no regulatory limit that I know of. The NAR high power safety code says, in number 10 about site size, that it should be "at least as large on its smallest dimension as one-half of the maximum altitude to which rockets are allowed to be flown at that site." On that basis, about 2400 feet would be the maximum, but since it is NOT a high power field, that doesn't "technically" apply.
But, at that site, there are winds from different directions at different levels that have taken more than a few models away from where the flyer expected them to go. Ignoring them is not a good idea, as you already know from experience.
Getting a Star Orbiter to 1720 feet on an F15 is a pretty good trick. That's a little higher than I've seen flying them.
But, at that site, there are winds from different directions at different levels that have taken more than a few models away from where the flyer expected them to go. Ignoring them is not a good idea, as you already know from experience.
Getting a Star Orbiter to 1720 feet on an F15 is a pretty good trick. That's a little higher than I've seen flying them.
Why does not the NAR safety code apply even to LPR fields?
The NAR model rocket safety code applies of course. It does not contain an explicit statement that the field should be at least half as wide as the lowest altitude allowed. It instead simply gives some sizes based on installed total impulse. Compare and contrast, specifically item 9 of the LPR code and item 10 of the HPR code:
HPR code: https://www.nar.org/safety-information/high-power-rocket-safety-code/
LPR/MPR code: http://www.nar.org/safety-information/model-rocket-safety-code/
Ooops, misinterpreted what you wrote.
That 1000 foot on a side requirement for F motors causes me to frustrate some tARC teams who are flying out of sites other than Sixty Acres North when it comes to scoring official flights).
But that table doesn't answer the question Ken and @MarsLander posed about maximum altitudes at that field. That's how we got here.
That 1000 foot on a side requirement for F motors causes me to frustrate some tARC teams who are flying out of sites other than Sixty Acres North when it comes to scoring official flights).
But that table doesn't answer the question Ken and @MarsLander posed about maximum altitudes at that field. That's how we got here.
Thanks 1720, to be exact (Eggtimer Ion). I've been afraid to put a G in it, but maybe at Sodblaster... I remember now, there is a limit on engine size, not on altitude based on field size. Is that right? I remember asking you about it. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's they way it is.
Correct - it’s about liftoff mass and propellant mass (mainly) and staying below those limits in order to not need an FAA waiver.
Interpreting what the ION told you (I presume that’s a beeped-out or displayed apogee) is the subject for another discussion, as you know.
Interpreting what the ION told you (I presume that’s a beeped-out or displayed apogee) is the subject for another discussion, as you know.
Yeah....but Ken and @MarsLander were asking about the site's altitude limit, and in Ken's case some kind of regulation or code-based restriction.
I have often thought about how high one could fly a waiver-free rocket and have done a couple of simulations. I also know I've done more than 5000 feet on an E (E Altitude at NARAM-61) and that was a third-place flight. That flight would be way out of bounds for Sixty Acres if there was a desire to recover it anyway.
I have often thought about how high one could fly a waiver-free rocket and have done a couple of simulations. I also know I've done more than 5000 feet on an E (E Altitude at NARAM-61) and that was a third-place flight. That flight would be way out of bounds for Sixty Acres if there was a desire to recover it anyway.
The west side of the field is 2000ft from the nearest residence, so it's possible if you stay more to the side but then you're that much closer to the river.
I use 1,000" - 1,200' feet as max altitude for 60 acres cause I don't want to lose any rockets.
Are the Soccer teams playing this weekend?
boatgeek
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Usually they don't start until June. Saturday and Sunday should be the best rocket flying weather at 60 Acres in a long time. I imagine that TARC teams will abound. Ingraham Rocketry will be there from Sunday midmorning to when our motors are all burnt up, hopefully in our usual spot in the SE corner of the north field.
I watched the tARC team presentation that won in 2022. They launched about 30 F-motors at 60 Acres to dial in their rocket.
boatgeek
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Yep, Newport is usually just down the field from us. We used to launch from the middle of the west side. A river landing recovered a mile or two downstream encouraged the team to the east side of the field.
Saturday is the Boeing Club Launch, down in Kent. Sunday some of us are likely to fly at 60 Acres. If I go, it'll be for a limited time, I'll probably have to cut out early. But I believe others are planning on being there.
Hope to see you either at the Boeing launch on Saturday, or Sunday at 60 Acres. And the WAC launch at 60 Acres is April 6.
Hope to see you either at the Boeing launch on Saturday, or Sunday at 60 Acres. And the WAC launch at 60 Acres is April 6.
I will be able to complete the painting on several rockets this weekend before they are flyable. Next time for sure!
Our cub scout pack will be here on Saturday at 10 am with 3 launch pads and about 25 small rockets to launch, plus a couple of moderately larger rockets at the end. Nothing huge, but a lot launches! Estimating 1 to 2 hours total. Hoping to see some other fliers out there too!
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