Rocket Ignitors

Just wanted to get some feed back from you guys on your favorite type of igniters to use on AT motors both single use and reloadable.

I know there are plenty of choices out there and I also know that certain motors are more difficult to launch than others, but in your own experience what do you find to be the most reliable hands down.

I was actually considering buying a kit to dip my own.

https://www.rocketflite.com/

I heard these are outstanding.

They are outstanding. I dipped a dozen of them last night.

I use the supplied igniter for every somposite motor and only use the dipped ones if I have a misfire or a bad igniter. Or I hand them to others who had a misfire.

They will ignite your motors without a problem. But the supplied igniters usually do so as well (unless damaged or defective or used in an old white lightning propellant motor with severe oxidation crust).

AfterBurners said:

Just wanted to get some feed back from you guys on your favorite type of igniters to use on AT motors both single use and reloadable.

I know there are plenty of choices out there and I also know that certain motors are more difficult to launch than others, but in your own experience what do you find to be the most reliable hands down.

I was actually considering buying a kit to dip my own.

https://www.rocketflite.com/

I heard these are outstanding.

Click to expand...

I never dipped my own. Is it pretty easy or do I need to be concerned about blowing something up?? :rofl:

Nope. These are easy to dip and safe. I have never seen or heard of an accident using this dip, but I would no do it near a flame or burning ember.

I've done a bunch with Quickburst pyrogen and they are also excellent. Good customer service from David there as well.

I have also tried using conductive pyrogen from Foxfire in an attempt to make really skinny ignitors. Those were awful and next to useless.

s6

stealth6 said:

I have also tried using conductive pyrogen from Foxfire in an attempt to make really skinny ignitors. Those were awful and next to useless.

s6

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Guessing this is liquid element? A buddy didn't like it. I'm going to try some of his extra stuff out of morbid curiousity.

Even though I dip my own igniters I wish I had bought these and never bothered mixin and dipin my own. I still my try the low voltage ones but I have so many igniters that I will ever run out.

TA

cavecentral said:

Guessing this is liquid element? A buddy didn't like it. I'm going to try some of his extra stuff out of morbid curiousity.

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Yes. It was terrible. One thing I've had trouble doing with home made igniters was making them very thin/small. I have a few rockets that use three way 24/40 clusters and I REALLY need all of those motors to light together consistently. While my home made igniters have given excellent results in all other motors (mostly 29mm) it was difficult making them narrow enough to fit into the 24/40 reloads. When I read about Liquid Element I thought, "A HA!, that's just the thing!". In theory you can simply strip a short section off the end of shooter's wire, and (as long as you make sure the two wires don't touch) just dip that end into the conductive pyrogen. This would make very thin igniters, which was just what I needed.

Yes, they lit, but they really didn't work. First off, they take a while to actually ignite - it's not an instant pop by any means. And then the spark is more of a flame, and is obviously not very hot. Even when they fire, they failed to actually light the propellant about 75% of the time. On top of that there were a few duds that did not fire at all. I tried doing a second dip in regular pyrogen (also from Firefox) but not only did this make some of the igniters too fat, it also did not improve the motor ignition really at all.

I even took one propellant grain (that was not useful to launch with any more) and simply set it on the ground with THREE of these igniters in it. All three lit, but they still failed to light the propellant.

All in all, it was a major disappointment, not to mention a rather big waste of time/money.

So, I think an endorsement deal for me from Firefox is out of the question.

s6

Any conductive pyrogen I heard of seemed too high of resistance to cluster with. I used graphite conductive ones. Need a second dip is something though. Still not good for clusters.

I have some ematch blanks that I thought about grinding the chip thin before dipping. Not sure if that would be any better.

Only other thing is smaller guage wire.

I wrap and dip my own igniters and I use the rocketflite pyrogen. I have never had one igniter fail to light and I use them on my rockets and fireworks. It is easy to do and you can make hundreds of igniters of various sizes and use them in any engine from BP to composites. Two weeks ago when I flew, every home made igniter fired and the only failures I had were the estes igniters. Try it, you like them.

tightwad said:

I wrap and dip my own igniters and I use the rocketflite pyrogen. I have never had one igniter fail to light and I use them on my rockets and fireworks. It is easy to do and you can make hundreds of igniters of various sizes and use them in any engine from BP to composites. Two weeks ago when I flew, every home made igniter fired and the only failures I had were the estes igniters. Try it, you like them.

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I'm going to buy one of the kits. Should I go with the ML Series (MagneLite) or the Ematches: MF Series (MagFire). Which igniter is more reliable or are they both almost the same??

My club has been having problems with the Copperheads for over a year. .....anyone else?

Do you have smooth jawed micro clips or toothy Alligator Clips?

Teeth bite through the foil and create short ciruits and render them destroyed.

goldlizard said:

My club has been having problems with the Copperheads for over a year. .....anyone else?

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crapperheads? nope no problems... FIZzzzzz....

really thats not fair... they always ignite for me, just sometimes i think the grains dont want to participate...

always have a backup plan

Copperheads are awesome, Sather (SMR) lit a K700 with one once.

chadrog said:

Copperheads are awesome, Sather (SMR) lit a K700 with one once.

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uhhhhh, what?

Did he split it and solder each side to shooter wire?

I've failed 7/8 times using copperhead ignitors and the aerotech-supplied copperhead ignitor kit. They're totally incompatible with the alligator ignitor leads we use at ROC, and they don't seem to work with the aerotech clip either.

shreadvector said:

Do you have smooth jawed micro clips or toothy Alligator Clips?

Teeth bite through the foil and create short ciruits and render them destroyed.

Click to expand...

They use the smooth jawed clips, These things just Genie, a puff of smoke.

I've found that if you follow the directions, Copperheads are as reliable as other igniters. I have a couple of the Interlok clips, but I usually use the method of putting a small piece of tape on each side of the igniter. That way I don't have to remember to recover the Interlok from the launch pad after the flight.

Having said that, I usually replace Copperheads with standard igniters when I can because you don't have to do all the prep work. Some motors, though, have small cores or nozzles and, in the past, it was hard to fit anything but a Copperhead in them. Recently, I've been trying out the Estes Pro Series igniters in those motors. I haven't flown enough to make a judgement about them yet.

I did try the trick of using two Pro Series igniters at once to light an old single-use G motor and that worked fine.

-- Roger

CCotner said:

I've failed 7/8 times using copperhead ignitors and the aerotech-supplied copperhead ignitor kit. They're totally incompatible with the alligator ignitor leads we use at ROC, and they don't seem to work with the aerotech clip either.

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If you use the Bic trick, they can readily work with alligator clip leads. Just heat the non pyro end of the ignitor with a lighter, then separate the two copper layers. You then have two leads to which you connect the clips. Works like a charm and is by far the easiest way to use them.

Doug

.

AfterBurners said:

I'm going to buy one of the kits. Should I go with the ML Series (MagneLite) or the Ematches: MF Series (MagFire). Which igniter is more reliable or are they both almost the same??

Click to expand...

MF are designed for altimeter use and are sensitive- may be blown out with higher voltage club systems- I use both and swear by the ML's. So good I quit making my own early last year after I ran out of new shooter's wire and have been happy ever since.

One of the clubs I fly with doesn't have a relay type launch control system, so I've had trouble with Copperheads there due to a lack of current. Copperheads are current hogs. But at the other club with a relay system and the batteries at the pads, no problems. My favorite method of attaching the clips is the "cardstock" method. But I've also used tape and a lighter with good success. I have found, though, that a lot of Copperheads are too big for 24mm AT reloads. But I use homemade (from scratch) igniters instead of Copperheads now. I've made small ones specifically for the 24mm reloads.

Something else I wanted to throw out there. I've heard of people using QUEST Q2G2 (Long Igniters) How sensitive are these?? Yay or nay on lighting up composites?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/qus/qus7025.htm

Are these good use or just stay with ML series. It seems in the long run it would be much cheaper to make your own with the kit provided.

Quake,

Awesome photos. Nice illustration of 3 techniques.

qquake2k said:

One of the clubs I fly with doesn't have a relay type launch control system, so I've had trouble with Copperheads there due to a lack of current. Copperheads are current hogs. But at the other club with a relay system and the batteries at the pads, no problems. My favorite method of attaching the clips is the "cardstock" method. But I've also used tape and a lighter with good success. I have found, though, that a lot of Copperheads are too big for 24mm AT reloads. But I use homemade (from scratch) igniters instead of Copperheads now. I've made small ones specifically for the 24mm reloads.

Click to expand...

I like the card stock method....very cool!

AfterBurners said:

I like the card stock method....very cool!

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The header cards from AT reloads are perfect for this.

qquake2k said:

The header cards from AT reloads are perfect for this.

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That is thrifty and frugal. Great call. Do you use a standard hand Held hole punch?

cwbullet said:

Quake,

Awesome photos. Nice illustration of 3 techniques.

Click to expand...

Thanks Doc!

cwbullet said:

That is thrifty and frugal. Great call. Do you use a standard hand Held hole punch?

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In the field, I just punch a hole with a knife or awl. For the photos, I used an 1/8" hole punch.

AfterBurners said:

Something else I wanted to throw out there. I've heard of people using QUEST Q2G2 (Long Igniters) How sensitive are these?? Yay or nay on lighting up composites?

https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/qus/qus7025.htm

Are these good use or just stay with ML series. It seems in the long run it would be much cheaper to make your own with the kit provided.

Click to expand...

I've used Q2G2 ignitors with AT 24mm reloads with no problems. I haven't tried them with 29mm reloads, but have a feeling there's not enough pyrogen on them for good reliability with the larger grains. I think if you start dipping your own, you'll never look back. But I have heard that AT MPR reloads are starting to come with First Fire Jr. ignitors instead of Copperhead.

Q2G2 work in 29 mm as long as they touch the grains. I have had success with them.