Q-Jet Follies

[sr205347d]

Levity aside, the E26 motors have been a headache for me. I don't know about the other Q-Jet motors, but three ignitors per successful launch is not sustainable.

If anyone has been able to get reliable ignition of the E26, please let me know your secrets.

Yes, I lightly scrape inside with a paperclip to remove oxidation, and, I get the ignitor all the way in. I have tried "enhancing" the ignitor by wetting with thin CA and immediately dipping in black powder. I have also tried securing the ignitor by plugging the nozzle with removable adhesive putty.

Until I get this figured out, I will use the more expensive E6 reloads. I would prefer the convenience of SU.

At least I haven't had one of these blow up. I had an Estes E12 CATO and destroy a rocket this weekend. (Yes, Estes is sending replacement motors and rocket kit.)

 

[lakeroadster]

Levity aside, the E26 motors have been a headache for me. I don't know about the other Q-Jet motors, but three ignitors per successful launch is not sustainable.

If anyone has been able to get reliable ignition of the E26, please let me know your secrets.

Yes, I lightly scrape inside with a paperclip to remove oxidation, and, I get the ignitor all the way in. I have tried "enhancing" the ignitor by wetting with thin CA and immediately dipping in black powder. I have also tried securing the ignitor by plugging the nozzle with removable adhesive putty.

Until I get this figured out, I will use the more expensive E6 reloads. I would prefer the convenience of SU.

At least I haven't had one of these blow up. I had an Estes E12 CATO and destroy a rocket this weekend. (Yes, Estes is sending replacement motors and rocket kit.)

What's your launch controller?

 

[sr205347d]

Not sure how that matters, as it has enough juice to fire the igniters without delay. I am using 4S LiFe 2500 mAh with 13.2 volts nominal. About 35 feet of 18 AWG stranded lamp cord.

 

[AeroTech]

Levity aside, the E26 motors have been a headache for me. I don't know about the other Q-Jet motors, but three ignitors per successful launch is not sustainable.

If anyone has been able to get reliable ignition of the E26, please let me know your secrets.

Yes, I lightly scrape inside with a paperclip to remove oxidation, and, I get the ignitor all the way in. I have tried "enhancing" the ignitor by wetting with thin CA and immediately dipping in black powder. I have also tried securing the ignitor by plugging the nozzle with removable adhesive putty.

Until I get this figured out, I will use the more expensive E6 reloads. I would prefer the convenience of SU.

At least I haven't had one of these blow up. I had an Estes E12 CATO and destroy a rocket this weekend. (Yes, Estes is sending replacement motors and rocket kit.)

Our production manager said “I have not experienced this in static testing, with Q-Jets or any other motor. Just did some E26's not long ago actually. If I had an issue like that I would say something.”

What is/are the lot number(s) of the motor(s) displaying this behavior?

This type of chuffing can happen if the initiator isn’t placed at the head end of the propellant grain.

Also, E6 reloads aren’t comparable with the E26W as they have much lower average thrust, and more importantly, no delay or ejection charge.

 

[lakeroadster]

Not sure how that matters, as it has enough juice to fire the igniters without delay. I am using 4S LiFe 2500 mAh with 13.2 volts nominal. About 35 feet of 18 AWG stranded lamp cord.

I use a Pratt Hobbies Go-Box and a 12 Volt car battery. I've never had an issue lighting off E motors.

 

[Scott_650]

Here’s another piece of anecdotal data - I’ve successfully used QJet Es at our club launches several times, I don’t know the name brand of our launch console but it’s powered by a simple 12V gel-cell vehicle battery.

 

[sr205347d]

Our production manager said “I have not experienced this in static testing, with Q-Jets or any other motor. Just did some E26's not long ago actually. If I had an issue like that I would say something.”

What is/are the lot number(s) of the motor(s) displaying this behavior?

This type of chuffing can happen if the initiator isn’t placed at the head end of the propellant grain.

Also, E6 reloads aren’t comparable with the E26W as they have much lower average thrust, and more importantly, no delay or ejection charge.

In that video, the first two misfires was a motor with date code 081222-01. After the second misfire, a big chunk was broken out of the nozzle. I have already emailed [email protected] about that.

The third one that sputtered and chuffed but did eventually light, has code 012522-01.

And, this is not my first experience with hard-to-light E26s. I previously posted about a starting issue with a motor that I discovered had a throat diameter that was too large. What I didn't mention in that post was that the other motor in the pack required three tries, and a bigger ignitor, to get it to go.

I'll keep trying, but I don't like the idea of having to spend five bucks each for First Fire Jr. ignitors.

The E6 is what I usually use in my RC gliders. I was hoping for a more convenient and less expensive single-use alternative.

 

[sr205347d]

I tried again today, following the instructions exactly, without success.

Motor from an unopened pack:


Ignitor inserted two inches. Is that all the way?


Ignitor secured with Q-Pic:


Results: A misfire, with a pop.

Is is plausible that my controller is providing too much power, causing the ignitor to explode rather than burn?

If so, why does it do it only to the Q-Jet ignitors, and none other? The leads are short -- maybe less resistance?

Would dipping the ignitors into something that would burn but not explode help? What would that be? Fingernail polish?

How about adding resistance to lower the current? Or, using a 2S LiFe battery instead of 4S? Would 6.6 volts be sufficient?

 

[BRS Hobbies]

I would try a 3S 11.1v LiPo battery which will put out a voltage of 12.6 volts when fully charged.

 

[AeroTech]

I tried again today, following the instructions exactly, without success.

Motor from an unopened pack:
View attachment 607896

Ignitor inserted two inches. Is that all the way?
View attachment 607899View attachment 607900

Ignitor secured with Q-Pic:
View attachment 607901

Results: A misfire, with a pop.

Is is plausible that my controller is providing too much power, causing the ignitor to explode rather than burn?

If so, why does it do it only to the Q-Jet ignitors, and none other? The leads are short -- maybe less resistance?

Would dipping the ignitors into something that would burn but not explode help? What would that be? Fingernail polish?

How about adding resistance to lower the current? Or, using a 2S LiFe battery instead of 4S? Would 6.6 volts be sufficient?

The lower voltage will work fine.

 

[AeroTech]

Anyone else having this problem with E26Ws? Not minor chuffing at ignition but heavy chuffs and failure to ignite?

 

[Cameron Anderson]

Anyone else having this problem with E26Ws? Not minor chuffing at ignition but heavy chuffs and failure to ignite?

I did. Two packs worth, failure to ignite.
I assumed the 3 ignitors for every one successful launch was just me loading the ignitors incorrectly (I got these for my kid, I had never used Q jets before).
Purchased spring 2022 sometime, didn't record the lot data.

 

[Tom Flint]

I have flown a lot of E26s. They usually all chuff two or three times quickly before they light. I have had one chuff and not light. I replaced the igniter and it worked fine on the second try.

 

[cwbullet]

I have seen quite a few chuffs. I replace their ignitor with one of mine and it flys.

 

[kjhambrick]

I have seen quite a few chuffs. I replace their ignitor with one of mine and it flys.

Chuck --

What ignitors are you using ?

Thanks

-- kjh( who has a pack of E26-10 from Batch 033123 ready to fly when our burn ban is lifted )

 

[Antares JS]

It wasn't mine, but I've seen a Goblin launch on an E26 and get about twenty feet up before chuffing, then the motor restarted with the rocket pointing at the ground.

 

[cwbullet]

Chuck --

What ignitors are you using ?

Thanks

-- kjh( who has a pack of E26-10 from Batch 033123 ready to fly when our burn ban is lifted )

I make my own. I have a rather hot burning formula that burns over 2-3 seconds.

 

[Tractionengines]

Anyone else having this problem with E26Ws? Not minor chuffing at ignition but heavy chuffs and failure to ignite?

I gave flown ~20 after the nozzle material change and have only had 2 misfires (not chuff's but failure to do anything). Both went with the 2nd first fire starter.

[ They ALL give a couple quick pops as they light, but that's just part of the startup... ]

 

[Tractionengines]

Is is plausible that my controller is providing too much power, causing the ignitor to explode rather than burn?

YES. A fully charged 4S is 16V with LOTS of current capacity. It could easily be heating the wire too fast and popping it off the tip, with only some of the pyrogen burning.

Try a 12V battery and see it it doesn't work better. (Or a series resistor to limit current, so the wire heats a couple milliseconds slower.)

 

[wsume99]

I did. Two packs worth, failure to ignite.
I assumed the 3 ignitors for every one successful launch was just me loading the ignitors incorrectly (I got these for my kid, I had never used Q jets before).
Purchased spring 2022 sometime, didn't record the lot data.

I bought some C18W and D20W Q jets at the WM BF sale back in 2020. I normally fly RMS in 24 & 29mm motors but my youngest kid just started flying a few months ago so after flying BP motors I decided to introduce him to AP motors. I dug out the Q Jets I had and the W motors have been a major PITA to ignite. It's super awesome to see his disappointment when the igniter pops and the motor does nothing. I'd say I'm at the same 3:1 ratio as you have experienced. I'm sticking with the fast jack Q jets for now.

edit - These were all at a club launches using their equipment. I feel pretty strongly that commercial motors should reliably start with the igniter it's packaged with. I've never had an issue with any AeroTech motors before this, they have all performed as expected.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

CWBullet's and mine are like the Wildman little Uns except even smaller. I also have some even smaller that fit the Q-Jet A and B mitirs. I've given them out when a flyer has a starter failure. Used for 18 mm D grain motors.

 

[tsmith1315]

CWBullet's and mine are like the Wildman little Uns except even smaller. I also have some even smaller that fit the Q-Jet A and B mitirs. I've given them out when a flyer has a starter failure. Used for 18 mm D grain motors.
View attachment 608039

What are you using for wire?

 

[waltr]

Here is a photo of some of the igniters I build. Pyrogen is QuickBurst's Pro-Cast.
At the top (Q-jet) uses 28ga wire wrap wire and 40ga nichrome for the bridge.
Never had one not light a Q-jet and do give these away at launches when someone's Q-jet did not light.

 

[kjhambrick]

Here is a photo of some of the igniters I build. Pyrogen is QuickBurst's Pro-Cast.
At the top (Q-jet) uses 28ga wire wrap wire and 40ga nichrome for the bridge.
Never had one not light a Q-jet and do give these away at launches when someone's Q-jet did not light.

@waltr --

Is that cat 5 wire on the Q-jet ignitor ?

And ...

Are those your testimonials on the QuickBurst site ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

 

[cerving]

I tried again today, following the instructions exactly, without success.

Motor from an unopened pack:
View attachment 607896

Ignitor inserted two inches. Is that all the way?
View attachment 607899View attachment 607900

Was "two inches" all the way in until it stops? If not, it needs to be all the way in... and make sure that it it doesn't pull out any when you attach the clips.

FWIW, I've also lit them with Estes Pro Series II Sonic igniters and Wildman Lil-Uns.

 

[waltr]

@waltr --

Is that cat 5 wire on the Q-jet ignitor ?

And ...

Are those your testimonials on the QuickBurst site ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

Yes, those are my testimonials. I have no other interest with them - just a very happy customer.

Not Cat-5 wire. "Wire Wrap" wire.
Example of what I use:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products...AZRYCcBLAOwDmIAL4iiAJnIgA7r254ABDO4Ymy+XgYigA
The wire needs to be 'solid' not stranded. This is to get a good 'crimp' onto the nichrome when bending the bare wire end over the nichrome 'wrap'.
Other thin solid wire will work. Just find the Q-jet with the smallest nozzle and twist two of your wires together and see if it fits into the nozzle. If easy fit then good for an igniter. If doesn't fit ten find small ga wire (or thinner insulation).

If the CAT-5 wire you have is solid it can work if it fits into the nozzle.

The other igniters are made with MJG eMatch wire (saved wire from used ematches).

 

[sr205347d]

Was "two inches" all the way in until it stops?

Yes. And, securely held in with the Q-pic.

 

[cwbullet]

CWBullet's and mine are like the Wildman little Uns except even smaller. I also have some even smaller that fit the Q-Jet A and B mitirs. I've given them out when a flyer has a starter failure. Used for 18 mm D grain motors.
View attachment 608039

Sort of. The ones I use on Qjets are not like Wildman's.

 

[cwbullet]

@waltr --

Is that cat 5 wire on the Q-jet ignitor ?

And ...

Are those your testimonials on the QuickBurst site ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

No it is wire wrap wire. It often called Kynar Wire because of the type of material on the outside. It comes in 26, 28, 30, and 32 awg.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

My tiny ones also use 30 gauge wire wrap wire for the leads. See the above picture for them in a Q-Jet B4. Bridge wire is 50u (.002") tungsten and will fire on about 1A. Pyrogen is Quickburst ProCast.