Whatchamacallit Upscale (Level Two Project)

It is that time to start thinking about my level two project. I decided that I am going to do a 7x upscale of the fliskits whatchamacallit. The final product will be 6' 3" tall 5 inches in diameter, weigh 9.8lbs (roughly) without a motor, close to 11 with a motor (Aerotech J570W). I will be using a 38mm motor for the cert but the rocket is being built with a 54mm mount. The body tubes are 5" x 36" shipping tubes and I will be custom making my own nose cone from foam.

I am going to start building once my job for the summer ends (which is saturday). I will start with the nose cone most likely and work my way down. I have attached the rocksim file of the rocket. NOTE: the fins do not look like the actual fins on the original rocket but they are the correct weight(I attached the fin rocksim file as well...disregard the BT in the fin rocksim file it is just there to have the fins attached to something)

It will hopefully get launched at NERRF 7 granted I pass the test prior to launch...time to start studying. Pictures to come once building gets started.


PS...Question for those who post the big photos rather than the small thumbnails usually posted...how is that done?

View attachment 5 inch WhatchaMacallit.rkt

View attachment whatchamacallit fins.rkt

redsox15 said:

It is that time to start thinking about my level two project. I decided that I am going to do a 7x upscale of the fliskits whatchamacallit. The final product will be 6' 3" tall 5 inches in diameter, weigh 9.8lbs (roughly) without a motor, close to 11 with a motor (Aerotech J570W). I will be using a 38mm motor for the cert but the rocket is being built with a 54mm mount. The body tubes are 5" x 36" shipping tubes and I will be custom making my own nose cone from foam.

It will hopefully get launched at NERRF 7 granted I pass the test prior to launch...time to start studying. Pictures to come once building gets started.

Click to expand...

That is a big rocket for a 54 mount. I think you would be very happy in the future if you put a in 75mm mount.

5x7 said:

That is a big rocket for a 54 mount. I think you would be very happy in the future if you put a in 75mm mount.

Click to expand...

With fins that size, and a final weight of around 10lbs, 75mm starts to bring in questions about reinforcement though. If it really ends up at 10-12 pounds, 54mm should be plenty to give it a good boost.

I have done some sims with some 54mm motors and I think it will work out just fine for what I want to accomplish and because 54mm is still within my rocket budget (being a college student books come first) and the fact that there are a ton of 54mm options

I appreciate the suggestions


Matt

redsox15 said:

PS...Question for those who post the big photos rather than the small thumbnails usually posted...how is that done?

Click to expand...

Sounds like an interesting project!

As far as posting larger pictures they are usually 'hot linked' to an image hosting site like photobucket..Then you can copy and paste the image link into your post and voila you have a picture!

Pantherjon said:

Sounds like an interesting project!

As far as posting larger pictures they are usually 'hot linked' to an image hosting site like photobucket..Then you can copy and paste the image link into your post and voila you have a picture!

Click to expand...

Would the same thing work with picasa? I already have an account so I might as well use that.

Thanks for the help!

redsox15 said:

Would the same thing work with picasa? I already have an account so I might as well use that.

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

Yes. I use Picasa for 99% of the images I post. Just upload it to an online album, and there's a convenient box with the link to use.

Ok I started today by getting my nose cone template sized up and printed out. The next step is to start cutting out foam squares for the nose cone. I will then cut off the excess then spin it on my lathe (at the slowest speed) and sand it smooth. The pictures below are the nose cone template, the tubes that will be used in the build and a picture to show the thickness of the tube. Tonight after baseball I am going to start cutting foam squares and assembling the nose cone.

I will take plenty of pictures for everyone to look at!

Til tonight,

Matt

Ok time for some real build photos...

On todays to do list was


1. finish sanding the disc that will be at the end of the shoulder of the nose cone
2. cut out all the plates going into the nose cone (helps me with the shape and rigidity of the nose cone)
3. cut out all the foam pieces


Here we go...

First I cut the discs for the nose cone in the rough shape of a circle out on the band saw I rigged up a jig to help me get a perfect circle on the belt sander using a nail and a longer piece of wood for clamping ease. (first picture below)

The second picture shows (from top left to bottom right) the bottom disc of the nose cone that will rest on the body tube, the "shoulder disc" as I call it because it will be resting on the shoulder of the nose cone. Then from bottom left to bottom right are the three discs that will go in between each layer of foam (5 squares of foam=1 layer).

And the foam cutting weapon of choice today is....drumroll please......

My moms old electric knife! (the crowd goes wild...well not really) anyways this cuts through the foam quite nicely at least for the rough squares that I needed.

Picture 4 is the frame on which the foam will go that will soon become a nose cone.

Picture 5 the foam pieces (I know there is only 4 per layer that is because when I took this picture I forgot how to count and didn't cut all five for each layer. Also there is a 4th layer of only 4 foam squares but they are not in this picture.

The next picture is kind of boring but I thought I'd get an action shot in there of me drilling a hole through the foam to fit onto the dowel.

And last but not least the assembled but not carved or glued nose cone. The dowel sticks out about 3 inches out of the top on purpose because when I go to sand it on the lathe a disc will go at the end so the lathe has something to hold onto while spinning.

Once the nose cone is sanded smooth I am going to conver it with a layer of 2oz fiberglass

I am in the process of drawing up a picture of how the nose cone is going to fit together (nose cone, shoulder etc.)

I do have a question for anyone who has made their own nose cone...do you glue each layer together or would you just glue the discs in between each layer of foam?

Matt

couple more pictures

SOunds like a very interesting build looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

A little more building today. Worked on the shoulder assembly for the nose cone. I cut a piece of tube 4 inches long and then slit it so it would fit inside the main body tube.

First picture is of all the parts of the shoulder assembly. I am using 1/4" x 5" carraige bolts to attach the two discs and sandwich the shoulder tube in between the two discs (maybe a little over kill but they don't weigh too much and they work beautifully)

Of course murphys law....go to the hardware store to pick up the bolts grab two bolts from the same drawer only to find out when I get home that they are actually two different bolts with different threads therefore the nuts I bought dont fit....back to the hardware store tomorrow

The next couple of pictures are the assembled shoulder with only one bolt tightened...I still need to epoxy the shoulder tube together for final assembly.

Tonight I am going to start gluing the foam pieces together clamp it together and wait about 2 days for it to dry completely before trimmin n' spinnin


Matt

redsox15 said:

Of course murphys law....go to the hardware store to pick up the bolts grab two bolts from the same drawer only to find out when I get home that they are actually two different bolts with different threads therefore the nuts I bought dont fit....back to the hardware store tomorrow

Click to expand...

Been there , done that! Now, I 'test fit' before I go to the checkout..

Havent posted in a while so here is a little update

I got the whole bolt deal dealt with and I started gluing the foam pieces together on the nose cone. I will post pictures of the roughly carved nose cone once all the pieces are glued and cut and eventually spun on the lathe. I am giving the nose cone plenty of time to dry so that I dont have a big sticky mess when I am cutting/sanding the nose cone.

Matt

The suspense is killing me. I want more. Is it finished yet, Is it finished yet? I think this is going to be a great build. keep us posted.

The moment you have all been waiting for..... (trumpet noise) da da da da....

Today I spun the nose cone on the lathe...its no sandman creation but for not spinning anything on the lathe before and never making my own nose cone I am pretty satisfied. It is a little uneven and has some divets in it from when I cut off too much foam prior to sanding. The lathe worked beautifully very smooth (no pun intended) and very quiet.

Anyways time for the exciting part PICTURES!

More to come

Please excuse my bed head self in the picture

Matt

ok more pictures of the nose cone progress...

Next step is to fill in the inperfections on the nose cone...speaking of which...does anyone have any suggestions on what to use to fill the holes, scuffs etc?

Once those a fill in and smoothed out I will put a layer of 2oz fiberglass of the nose cone to finish it up.

After that is all done I am going to start on the fins

Matt

redsox15 said:

Next step is to fill in the inperfections on the nose cone...speaking of which...does anyone have any suggestions on what to use to fill the holes, scuffs etc?

Click to expand...

Yep....nothing.

Seriously.

Just fiberglass right over 'em. It'll bridge the gaps, and anywhere there's a little divot after fiberglassing, you can fill with a filler later.

FWIW, I believe I saw where you plan to use 2oz fiberglass. Go with 4oz. A little easier to handle, and it's a little more durable.

Also, use a harness satin weave, if you haven't already purchased your cloth -- it follows complex curves like nosecones better than a standard weave does. It's a little harder to wet out, but it will give you a better result.

-Kevin

Thanks for the info on the fiberglass. Question, I already have 6oz at home but I was thinking that was a bit over kill or should I just go ahead and use that?

Thanks again,

Matt

That will work, but you probably either have plain or twill weave, which won't lay as well over a 3d contour. Ideally, you would have a satin weave, such as the 3oz stuff on this page:

https://www.acp-composites.com/home.php?cat=261

Here come more build pics!

Today I cut out one of the 3 fins. I spent yesterday printing and cutting out the fin template from rocksim (picture 1) and taped it down onto the wood. I am using 1/4" birch plywood for the fins then I am going to wrap the entire fin assembly in the 3oz fiberglass I just ordered (same stuff for the nose cone)

The second picture is the cut out fin all sanded and ready to go

The third and forth picture are a close up of the fin against the body tube and a head to toe picture with the nose cone on top and the fin at the bottom (on the final product the fins will be up about 3 or 4" from the bottom of the rocket)

Now off to home depot for more plywood

Matt

One more picture for eveyone. I took the picture of the fin and put dimensions on it for people to see.

Matt

I spent most of today epoxying the fins together. The last fillet is drying as I post this and I will hopefully have a picture up of the completed fin assembly tomorrow

Did you go with the slot and tab for the fins or just butt them up to each other?

When are you planning on flying this beast? Our 8th anniversary launch is coming up in September on our Amesbury field This would be a great addition to the festivities!

Pantherjon said:

Did you go with the slot and tab for the fins or just butt them up to each other?

Click to expand...

I just butted them up against each other. My brother helped me tape the fins around the body tube so that I got them in the right orientation before epoxying. The final fit is on the very snug side so some sanding is in order but it came out nicely (I know I said I was going to have a picture up by today but I was away from the computer all day..I promise tomorrow the pictures will be up. )

jflis said:

When are you planning on flying this beast? Our 8th anniversary launch is coming up in September on our Amesbury field This would be a great addition to the festivities!

Click to expand...

I am hoping to launch at NERRF 7 next summer. Unfortunately I will be back at school August 28th and the rocket will not be flight ready...BUT...it will be ready in its "naked" form (for lack of a better word) I have two weeks before school starts so I am hoping that I will have the motor mount finished by the time I leave. School is only 2 hours away so it is a quick trip home for the weekend. The rocket would be esthetically ready not flight ready but I would be happy to bring it out to the launch in september and set it up for people to see. When in September is the launch?

Again I promise a picture of the finished fins will be up tomorrow

Matt

As promised (finally) I have pictures of the fins.

First picture is of the completed fins looking at them from a birdseye view. There is a nice equilateral triangle in the middle that means I did all my measurements correctly You can also see some of the inner fillets but those get their own picture

Second picture is a bad picture of one of the inner fillets. The picture makes it look worse than it is. I tried to do these as cleanly as possible because they will be able to be seen when the rocket is done. Nothing a little sanding and some paint wont fix.

Third picture is the outer filllet which is there to fill in the gap between the two joining edges. I did not put an angle on the fin because that would have made the fins too short and the body tube fit WAYY to tight so I just filled the gap with epoxy and it adds strength as well. On these fillets I taped on either side to get a nice line (and now that I think about it I should have done the same thing for the inner fillets.

Pictures 4 and 5 are the fins on the body tube from two different angles. The fins are on a 3' length of body tube just to give you a sense of size. The fins are positioned where they will be on the finished rocket. They are 4 inches from the base of the rocket.

Side note: I wanted the guide rail to fit in between one of the peaks of the triangle in the fins and the body tube but that is not going to happen so I am going to have to put the rail buttons up on blocks to get past the fins. I am going with 1515 series buttons rather than 1010 on this rocket. Does anyone know the dimensions on the 1515 rail? just so I can completely rule out putting the rail putting the guide in between the triangle.

I am attaching the fins onto the body tube via small screws because I think that there is not enough surface area to epoxy the fins onto the body tube. There will be two screws per side and I am going to put inserts in the body tube so that the fins can be removed for transport and storage.

Next step is to wait for the 54mm motor mount tube to come so I will begin to cut out centering rings. And since I have 38mm tubing I can make the adapter. Then progress will come to a hault due to the start of school so I will not be home to work on the build.

Matt

redsox15 said:

I am hoping to launch at NERRF 7 next summer. Unfortunately I will be back at school August 28th and the rocket will not be flight ready...BUT...it will be ready in its "naked" form (for lack of a better word) I have two weeks before school starts so I am hoping that I will have the motor mount finished by the time I leave. School is only 2 hours away so it is a quick trip home for the weekend. The rocket would be esthetically ready not flight ready but I would be happy to bring it out to the launch in september and set it up for people to see. When in September is the launch?

Click to expand...

The launch is Saturday, Sept 18th. WOuld be great to have on display

jim

jflis said:

The launch is Saturday, Sept 18th. WOuld be great to have on display

jim

Click to expand...

It will be there!

redsox15 said:

It will be there!

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kewl. Add that to the launch of the 38mm Tres and we're going to have a very exciting day!