Why People Spank...

[smstachwick]

Someone needs to smack his brain back to where it belongs.

SMACK!

Good point, insofar as that I’m fully prepared to go into the actual work and think that it’s the parents that need a behavioral therapist. The double-standards that we as a society tolerate with parenting are astounding when you think about it. It’s an endeavor that’s plagued with “do as I say, not as I do” teaching.

Thing is though, one of the ethical principles we’re expected to work under is that we assume competence. In other words, we work under the assumption that clients and their support systems are doing their best and working at their natural limits, and that they can do better if we show them how. The keys to the job are to understand, engage, communicate, and advocate, and encourage building those skills not only on the part of the clients but also in other concerned parties in the environment.

In some cases that may require displaying backbone and saying “You are making it worse” or “this is wrong” to somebody other than the client.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Dave, we had a similar discussion in another thread, and you didn’t listen very well then either.

What is your interest in such hardline stances? Do you actually see some personal benefit to you in exercising power this way, or do you just like the attention endorsing such things brings you here? Or is there something else I haven’t considered? What is the function of your behavior?

(That’s clinical-speak for “not cool bro, what’s your problem?”)

First of all, you are not an "authority" for me to "listen to" and, if you were, we obviously disagree, on just about everything.

My "stance" and your "stance" stem from diametrically-opposed positions, where each of us believe we are correct. I have no intention of ever changing my personal beliefs.

I believe that parents should "exercise power" over their children and that they should teach them all of the "non-academic" apsects of life. If an "academic institution" seeks to undermine the values being taught to children, by their parents, then parents must reassert control over the situation.

Schools / Teachers should stick to teaching "skills" and "basic knowledge" ( reading, writing, English, math, science, history, physical education, etc ), They should only teach "facts", not "values". Values are personal beliefs ( morality, sexuality, religion, politics, etc ) that should be taught by parents, not by schools.

Dave F.

 

[cls]

Dave, please do everyone a favor, don't leave your home state, and stay away from children.

 

[lakeroadster]

First of all, you are not an "authority" for me to "listen to" and, if you were, we obviously disagree, on just about everything.

My "stance" and your "stance" stem from diametrically-opposed positions, where each of us believe we are correct. I have no intention of ever changing my personal beliefs.

I believe that parents should "exercise power" over their children and that they should teach them all of the "non-academic" apsects of life. If an "academic institution" seeks to undermine the values being taught to children, by their parents, then parents must reassert control over the situation.

Schools / Teachers should stick to teaching "skills" and "basic knowledge" ( reading, writing, English, math, science, history, physical education, etc ), They should only teach "facts", not "values". Values are personal beliefs ( morality, sexuality, religion, politics, etc ) that should be taught by parents, not by schools.

Dave F.

Well stated Dave.

It's amazing how much the country has changed since the 70's. And by nearly every measure of societal decay, it hasn't changed for the better.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Shane Stachwick/NAR #112384. Allegedly 26 years old but functionally 5.

It seems that you are quite "self-aware" . . .

Dave F.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

This was kind of a fun thread for awhile, but unfortunately it went the way of so many that go down the “kids these days, blah, blah, blah” rabbit hole.

I’m usually impressed by most of the kids I meet. Many of them are very well educated and have a good grasp of scientific subjects and history. Many of them have a better understanding of those topics than some of the people in my own generation and older who do the loudest griping about “kids these days”. And I’m not saying my generation had a bad education, because I feel like my own public education was top-rate — I’m just saying there are well educated and poorly educated people in every generation, and some people who had the benefit of a good education in their youth seem to embrace ignorance as they get older.

The main developmental challenges for youth these days seem to me to be related to pitfalls of social media. I think it can put a lot of social pressure on youth and can warp social development. But I also see social media as a problem for adults too, destroying interpersonal relationships, spreading misinformation, driving bad behavior, etc. It’s a society-wide problem, not just for young people. Presumably these adults had the “benefit” of spanking and were socialized and educated in critical thinking, and they still go off the deep end.

Overall, I think the kids are going to be ok, and maybe their parents and grandparents should focus less on how to physically discipline them and more on how to protect them from social media dangers, getting shot in school, inheriting a ruined environment, and losing their democratic form of government. In many ways, older generations aren’t doing a great job of holding up their end of the social contract with their children and grandchildren.

 

[Tyeeking]

This was kind of a fun thread for awhile, but unfortunately it went the way of so many that go down the “kids these days, blah, blah, blah” rabbit hole.

I’m usually impressed by most of the kids I meet. Many of them are very well educated and have a good grasp of scientific subjects and history. Many of them have a better understanding of those topics than some of the people in my own generation and older who do the loudest griping about “kids these days”. And I’m not saying my generation had a bad education, because I feel like my own public education was top-rate — I’m just saying there are well educated and poorly educated people in every generation, and some people who had the benefit of a good education in their youth seem to embrace ignorance as they get older.

The main developmental challenges for youth these days seem to me to be related to pitfalls of social media. I think it can put a lot of social pressure on youth and can warp social development. But I also see social media as a problem for adults too, destroying interpersonal relationships, spreading misinformation, driving bad behavior, etc. It’s a society-wide problem, not just for young people. Presumably these adults had the “benefit” of spanking and were socialized and educated in critical thinking, and they still go off the deep end.

Overall, I think the kids are going to be ok, and maybe their parents and grandparents should focus less on how to physically discipline them and more on how to protect them from social media dangers, getting shot in school, inheriting a ruined environment, and losing their democratic form of government. In many ways, older generations aren’t doing a great job of holding up their end of the social contract with their children and grandchildren.

“Kids these days” is an age old trope that is so overused. Every generation I’ve seen have had some that make me shake my head in disbelief at what they say and do and others that make me nod my head in how squared away they are.

I would wager that a lot of people who are quick to wag their fingers at how “social media is ruining today’s kids” are from a generation that heard how that crazy new invention called television is “ruining today’s kids”.

Every generation will have its challenges and every generation will have some that fall short of that challenge and others who meet that challenge in spades. Is the nature of being human.

 

[Titan II]

inheriting a ruined environment, and losing their democratic form of government

You know what else ruins these threads? You constantly inserting your biased political crap.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

“Kids these days” is an age old trope that is so overused. Every generation I’ve seen have had some that make me shake my head in disbelief at what they say and do and others that make me nod my head in how squared away they are.

I would wager that a lot of people who are quick to wag their fingers at how “social media is ruining today’s kids” are from a generation that heard how that crazy new invention called television is “ruining today’s kids”.

Every generation will have its challenges and every generation will have some that fall short of that challenge and others who meet that challenge in spades. Is the nature of being human.

I mostly agree with you. It’s always been something that is going to “ruin” a generation. Video games, television, rock and roll, comic books, etc., etc. I think there are aspects of social media that make it different from these other forms of media. For those, the danger was supposedly corrupting messages. For social media, I think the danger has more to do with amplifying the social pressures that already come with youth — popularity contest, rejection, isolation, bullying, public humiliation, living up to false standards, etc. Those are all amplified. But it may be that the generation growing up with this technology is learning to navigate it better than the old-timers who seem to have their own problems stemming from social media.

Anyway… I didn’t mean to open a whole side topic. My main point was that the young people I interact with mostly seem like they are fine, even without spanking and physical discipline. If there’s a problem with society, it’s not due to lack of spanking.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

You know what else ruins these threads? You constantly inserting your biased political crap.

If I have to stop this car, you are going to regret it, young man!

Three…
Two…
One…

SMACK!

 

[KC3KNM]

You know what else ruins these threads? You constantly inserting your biased political crap.

 

[boatgeek]

Has anyone else thought that Dave may be a Colbert Report-level parody? His statements are full of blanket statements that seem reasonable at first and then fall apart at the faintest scrutiny.

I believe that parents should "exercise power" over their children and that they should teach them all of the "non-academic" apsects of life. If an "academic institution" seeks to undermine the values being taught to children, by their parents, then parents must reassert control over the situation.

Schools / Teachers should stick to teaching "skills" and "basic knowledge" ( reading, writing, English, math, science, history, physical education, etc ), They should only teach "facts", not "values". Values are personal beliefs ( morality, sexuality, religion, politics, etc ) that should be taught by parents, not by schools.

At the risk of the Wrath of @ThirstyBarbarian ...

1. The Pledge of Allegiance is a statement of values, not facts. Are you against the Pledge in schools? I would have thought you were squarely behind that.
2. Schools *have* to teach some level of common values or they won't function. If whatever the parents say is OK, what happens when a parent says that it's OK to steal someone else's lunch if their kid is bigger than the other kid? Do you really want to open the door to every parent setting the behavior standards for their children? What happens when you get a bunch of nudists in town? What about blatant racism? Does the school and the targeted student just need to suck it up?
3. If parents are the ultimate authority and cannot be questioned, then there's nobody to report the dad who visits Little Susie's room every night and then blames it on her for leading him on. Societal groups where there is a single authority (Baptists, Catholics, Boy Scouts, etc.*) are ripe for sexual abuse of children because nobody can question the behavior of the authority figure.
4. Despite the frothy statements you hear from some media about kindergartners being taught the Kama Sutra, sex ed in early grades is about preventing sex abuse. Once kids get to 4th grade (ie the threshold of puberty), they start talking more about relationships and mechanics.
5. If there's no sex ed, then there's a great chance that students learn about sex and consent from internet porn. Does that seem like a good idea? If you think that a parent can keep a middle or high school student away from internet porn, you're living in a dream world.

Perhaps most importantly, though is what happens when the child leaves home. If you as the parent have been rigidly controlling their every behavior, then they won't have the tools to make good decisions on their own. There's also a solid chance that they'll rebel against everything that you forced them into as soon as they are able.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

* Not to say that all Baptists, Scouts, or Catholics are abusers, just that the systems of authority in those organizations make it easier for abusers to thrive and not get caught. It doesn't help when the organizations are more interested in their short-term reputations than protecting children.

 

[ewomack]

I've read through the arguments and declarations in this thread. I've considered their ramifications and implications and ruminated over many of their impacts and consequences and given them a lot of thought and scrutiny. But for some reason, I keep getting distracted by thoughts of Betty Page...

Dang, it happened again... what was I saying?

 

[teepot]

Getting spanked never changed my behavior, Getting the paddle in school in the 8th grade didn't change the way I acted in high school or college. What had an effect on me was my parents wishes. As long as you did what the asked everything was golden. Come home after a date late caused my parents to worry and that would upset them. It was the same for me when the girls were growing up. If one of them was more than 15 minutes late there would be repercussions. Like no dates or no after school activities. I spanked our oldest just once. She had said some hurtful things to her mother who left the room crying. I put her over my knee and gave her one swat, Then she left the room crying. There was never a repeat. Being consistent with what was expected from them and in the rules set forth had the desired effect. I have said for quite awhile that you should need a license to have children. Because I see parents who cuss like soldiers in front or there kids. F this and F that. Who smack them in public. And don't show their kids or anyone else some respect. I have friends that are retired school teachers, To a man they have said they are glad they are retired because they wouldn't want to try and teach kids now. They have also said that when there is a parent teacher night almost none of the parents show up. That they use the school system as babysitters. If both parents work the kids can be on there own for hours. And the parents haven't a clue about what their kids have been up to. And don't seem to care. Show no interest in what they do or how they are doing in school. No wonder the kids run amuck. Fortunately there are what we would call good parents. It seems to me that there are more bad ones or maybe mediocre than good ones though.

 

[smstachwick]

It seems that you are quite "self-aware" . . .

Dave F.

Your first reply to me provoked some interesting thought that I promise I will fully detail later when I get some more time, provided the thread stays open. I listened to you, by which I mean I paid attention to what you were saying; thought about it deeply; and made an honest effort to understand your viewpoint, your position, and you.

I was going to return here and post my response in a timely manner when I saw the second notification with your name on it. Usually when I see a second reply to my argument before I can get back to somebody, that represents further points to wrestle with, an escalation of tension, or something else I just don’t really want to deal with unless I’m focused and in a relaxed mood with a lot of time to kill. (Not often here on TRF, I’ve been in a few other places around the Internet where arguments are more the norm.)

When the notification got buried under a bunch of others and disappeared from the “bell” menu I thought, “ah, what the hell? Now or never” and opened this thread from my Watched menu.

I find it pretty amusing that I needn’t have bothered with the delay. Personal insults like that, I can swat away like a mosquito. I also find it a bit disappointing that something I thought would be so challenging to tackle head-on turned out to be so insubstantial that it doesn’t even warrant an attempt at argument. We’ve disagreed on things before but I always thought you were smarter and more capable than ^ that. I still do.