Why aren't there many 18 mm composites?

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A 6mm motor with composite propellant, if such a thing is even possible, would be most useful as a heavy lifter for larger micro designs, and also as part of a group of auxiliary motors for rockets that use larger diameter motors for the main impulse. It isn't practical to boost a minimum diameter 6mm rocket to lofty altitudes for the very reason that you mentioned. And as I said above, any motor in the 6mm diameter would be a single use type; a reloadable system is simply out of the question. (Seriously; can you imagine? :p ) I shudder to think of the hassles that must be involved with installing liners, O-rings, fuel grains, delay elements, etc. into Green Monkey's 13mm hardware. :bang:

MarkII
 
It would be very easy to spill some bp form the ejection charge........:y:
 
Wow you weren't kidding when you said they overlaped :y: but what niche do the D's fill? Isn't the D13W reload comparable to a D12?
 
Roughly, yes. The difference is that the D13 reload is the same size as an Estes C6. Therefore, it fits in rockets that the D12 does not. The D13 is louder and more spectacular too :D
 
Wow you weren't kidding when you said they overlaped :y: but what niche do the D's fill? Isn't the D13W reload comparable to a D12?
Well, first of all, the Estes D12 really should be called a D10, because that number more accurately reflects its average thrust. The D13 uses composite propellant while the D12 uses black powder. Composite propellant has a higher specific impulse than BP (IOW, it is more "efficient). Due to that fact, the D13 can deliver the same general level of power (D class) in a much smaller, more lightweight package.

The thrust profiles of the D12 and the D13 are quite different, too. They have similar burn durations, but the D12 has a classic BP motor profile: initial thrust spike, followed by a long, steady low thrust tail. The composite D13 starts out with a high thrust that climbs a bit and than stays up there for a significantly longer length of time. Notice also that the D13 reaches a high level of thrust nearly instantly, whereas the D12 takes a "pokey" 0.25 seconds to build up to its peak thrust. (A machine can tell the difference, but on the field, you or I probably could not.) From these two things you can therefore see that the average thrust of the D13 is higher than the average for the D12. The D13 has a higher total impulse, but the D12 actually has a higher peak thrust. (Impulse and thrust, of course, are not the same thing.) So although they are similar in nomenclature, the two motors are actually quite different.

Although D motors are considered to be mid-power motors, they really straddle the line between LP and MP. (BTW, low-power and mid-power are strictly informal groupings that are commonly recognized in our hobby but nowhere else. The only power grouping that has any formal status is high power. There are also groupings based on propellant mass, but that is a different matter. The notion of "mid-power" is a fairly recent development.) The niche that 18mm D motors from Aerotech and Apogee fill is providing D power for models with that size of mount. These are usually, but not always, low power-style designs that can handle the increased thrust or that are a bit overweight or have a fair amount of drag. The niche that 24mm D motors from Estes and Aerotech fill is providing D power to rockets that have that size of mount. Typically, but not always, these have larger, longer airframes that are built very light. Such motors also power a lot of very draggy saucer-style and pyramid-style rocket designs. Finally, 24mm black powder D motors are also great for clustering.

The new 20mm D5 motors from Quest don't straddle the line between LP and MP; they sit right on top of it. These motors may be the ultimate expression of "one foot in each category." Another word that comes to mind is "ambidextrous."

MarkII
 
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If you feel so strongly about this I suggest you contact Aerotech and ask them to remake B, C, D loads and use a competetors ignitors :roll:

Ben

considering Quest has Aerotech motors listed in thier own website, and endorses Aerotech products, I don't think AT using the Q2 ignitor would be such a stretch .

personally I LOVE small composite motors, been building 13mm reloads for 10-12 years myself, but the time involved, as ben said, is not any less, costs of propellant itself is of course low :) .
but realistically it's a niche thing, and just for grins. not commercially feasable, ( although I;d love to see the C12 reload back as a good motor for heavy 18mm models, that was great in the Mars Lander, for example )

just by inflated 3 1/2 cents.

~ AL
 
With the 24, 18, and 13 mm, how do you cut the c slot? What tool do you use?
 
I love launching a stock Fatboy on a D13. After it roars off the pad there is always a chorus of "What the Heck was That". A redline in this size would be really neat.
 
OK final list

Apogee: D3 (soon) D10

Aerotech Su D21

Areotech RMS D13w D24T
 
Ok this was the exact words he said that he it wasn't going to be soon because aerotech is refusing to manufacture them
 
Ok this was the exact words he said that he it wasn't going to be soon because aerotech is refusing to manufacture them

Which I don't think Aerotech will..Could be wrong, hope I am, but very doubtful AT will make them again..
 
Actually, Gary Rosenfield static fired a composite D3 at NARAM last year. He said that they were still tweeking the motor, but they had planned on offering it for sale. Haven't heard any updates lately, but it sure would be a sweet motor for competition and for getting rid of old models (g).
Aerotech seems to have a lot of irons in the fire (pun intended). Hopefully they will get around to this motor and add it to ValueRockets.

Chas
 
Forgive MY ignorance but isnt The Apogee D10 The Same As the areotech D10?
 
A lucky shot in the dark. If you keep tossing balls backwards over your shoulder, eventually one will go through the hoop. It doesn't mean that you have suddenly become Steve Nash. ;) :D

MarkII
 
Right..... And this is coming from the person who thinks you always need a recovery device to fly..... You only need one to fly safly smarty pants:rolleyes:
 
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