What do you use for or in place of wadding?

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majordude

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I was at my "local" (40 minutes away) Hobby Lobby and they had Estes standard wadding and their "Series II" wadding ($10!).

That's crazy for flame retardant Kleenex.

Any alternatives? I've heard fiberglass insulation or cellulose insulation will work well.

Any advice?
 
Please don't use anything like fiberglass insulation. It's not at all environmentally friendly (yeah, I'm a "tree-hugger"; get over it). Search the threads - there's plenty of talk about this elsewhere.

The cellulose insulation is a great way to go. I'd recommend having some of the Estes-type wadding around. For larger diameter body tubes, the dog barf can sometimes allow some blow by. I make a ball of dog barf and wrap it in the wadding; this, in addition to some more d.b. gives good protection to your recovery system.
 
That's crazy for flame retardant Kleenex.

Nope -- not Kleenex. Flame retardant TP.

If your sitting on the toilet and your house catches on fire you just might want some Estes wadding :bangpan:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But on a serious note -- Nomex blanket, you will never use wadding or barf again.
 
nomex blankets. Simple, effective, re-useable.

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https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...able_Wadding?zenid=9cjh6382nirt9mf9ndktq5ko93

https://rocketrywarehouse.com/product_info.php?products_id=547

https://www.madcowrocketry.com/category_s/1826.htm

https://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/nomex-blankets-c-2/?zenid=AIbexAxds-qjrMqJ2qCe13

https://www.the-rocketman.com/shields.html
 
DizWolf, that's a great deployment photo!

I use dog barf closest to the ejection charge and above that a nomex blanket wrapped around the chute like a burrito.
 
I use dog barf closest to the ejection charge and above that a nomex blanket wrapped around the chute like a burrito.

Nope -- not Kleenex. Flame retardant TP.

If your sitting on the toilet and your house catches on fire you just might want some Estes wadding :bangpan:

Some of the burritos I've had, I could have really used some flame retardant TP.

For rocketry purposes, I go dog barf all the way. Even with the big HPR that have nomex chute protectors, I sometimes augment with DB, and DB is great to keep BP charges in the cups in dual deploy rockets. As Kenn said, depending on the LPR airframe, sometimes I add a wrap or "cup" of Estes wadding to keep the dog barf together.
 
Barf of Dogness and Nomex, as others have said. I like the wrap of Estesesque wadding to contain the puke, though--may have to try that...


Later!

--Coop
 
Go to a party store. Get party streamers. Lots of them... At only a dollar a pice you can't go wrong.

USUALLY the paper is flame retardant. Just check a small piece with a lighter before you go to the field. If its the right stuff, it will burn, but then immediately extinguish when you remove flame. The bad stuff will just keep burning. I only found the bad stuff once, out of countless rolls I have used.

I use this stuff like mad in my rockets. Doubles as tracking when you use the bright orange too.
 
I was at my "local" (40 minutes away) Hobby Lobby and they had Estes standard wadding and their "Series II" wadding ($10!).

That's crazy for flame retardant Kleenex.

Any alternatives? I've heard fiberglass insulation or cellulose insulation will work well.

Any advice?

DO NOT use FIBERGLASS insulation... the stuff is NON-BIODEGRADABLE and it will still be laying there 100 years from now... matted and washed flat and probably embedded with dirt, but the glass fibers themselves will still be completely intact... fiberglass insulation poses a threat to anyone else using the property-- from kids who may play with it or folks who might step or sit on it and get fiberglass fibers embedded in their skin (and thus get the "fiberglass itchies" and skin irritation, to animals that may ingest the fiberglass accidently which can seriously injur or probably kill the animal... grazing animals are particularly susceptible! Other artificial disposable fibers like pillow ticking or mattress ticking (stuffing) are also non-biodegradable and will contaminate the flying site...

If you want a CHEAP substitute for wadding, use CELLULOSE BLOW-IN HOUSE INSULATION... also called "dog barf" by rocketeers... this is available from your local big-box indoor-lumberyard type home-improvement store, packed in big bales or blocks wrapped with plastic. If you check, sometimes they'll have a bale or part of a bale laying around from the dumb guy running the forklift who shouldn't be, who's speared a bale and punctured the plastic, or from leftover stuff in the machine when someone brought it back after renting it to blow the stuff into the walls of his house and not cleaning it out properly... these can usually be gotten VERY cheap, although just buying the bale outright at full retail won't set you back much... (usually $4-8 bucks or so...) This will provide a veritable LIFETIME of rocketry wadding... Since the stuff is actually shredded recycled newspaper and phone books and such, it's completely biodegradable. It's treated with the same sort of borate fireproofing (flameproofing, fire retardant) chemicals that are applied to Estes style wadding... just stuff some of the it into the rocket about 2-3 times the rocket diameter fairly loosely, and then install the recovery device, shock cord, and nosecone, and you're ready to fly... Another thing that's nice about this stuff is, when it blows out, it's basically CONFETTI-- it usually rains down in a pretty wide area, and is SO widely dispersed and pretty small particles, so it rapidly disappears into the turf or soil after a little exposure to wind or rain. As most soils in the US are actually boron deficient, when the particles break down into humus in the soil and release their boron, the boron is actually a fertilizer... so it's actually GOOD for the environment! Estes wadding will do the same thing, BUT, since it's usually in the form of wadded up "kleenex sheets", it will lay around on top of the grass as "litter" for a pretty good while before rain or a storm finally works it down to the damp layer at the soil surface and it starts to decompose... the finer particle size of dog barf allows this to happen almost instantly to within a couple days...

Other alternatives to dog barf or sheet wadding exist as well... some are "reusable" or do away with wadding entirely, like baffles... but usually even with a baffle most folks wrap the parachute in at least ONE sheet of wadding just to "make sure" it doesn't get singed... Nomex cloths can be installed over the shock cord (or tied on with small ring or bit of kevlar string or something) for reusable wadding... sometimes ironing board covers can be used, but be careful-- not all are as "flameproof" as they're supposed to be... (especially if they have the mark of quality on them that says "China"...) For years folks used crepe paper for streamers and for wadding substitute, since crepe paper is required by law to be flame retardant... but again, some has turned up that is far less 'flame retardant' than it should be, usually from ultra-cheap sources.

Even green leafy vegetation has been used successfully for wadding... tear off a few handfuls of lush green grass and stuff it in your rocket like dog barf-- the high moisture content prevents the grass from being ignited by the ejection charge hot gases and burning BP particles-- or you can use lettuce or cabbage leaves... some folks use popcorn, but popcorn CAN burn... so I don't recommend it...

Another alternative that Micromeister here on the forum has presented involves making 'pom-poms' out of regular cheap white Teflon Plumber's Tape... available just about anywhere... tear it off into strips several inches long, laying them out on top of each other in a starburst pattern overlapping the center... once you have a bunch of strips, grab it near the center, and tie some string around them all tightly in the center to make the pom-pom... then tie it onto the shock cord... the teflon plumber's tape is very heat-resistant and acts as wadding when shoved down into the tube, protecting the parachute or streamer from the ejection gases and burning particles. Just make sure the pom-poms are tied to the rocket, as they too are non-biodegradable and fully reusable-- just shake out the crap from the ejection charge and stuff it back inside...

Another material commonly used, especially by competitors, is foam plugs... basically these are plugs of foam cut from pink or blue house foam insulation using a hard body tube or similar size pipe to "cut through" the foam and make the plug. This is basically a variation on the "ejection piston" idea, which uses a piece of tubing slightly smaller than the inside of the rocket (so it can slide easily, not a tight fit like a tubing coupler) fitted with balsa disk or pair of disks to form a "piston" which is connected to the shock cord, thus being between the ejection end of the motor and the recovery device above... If you use foam plugs, competitors will usually just eject them from the rocket and let them flutter down on their own-- IMHO this is irresponsible, because the foam isn't biodegradable either (though it will break down with long-term exposure to UV in sunlight) and will be "litter" on the launch site... IF you choose to use a foam plug for an ejection piston, tether it to the shock cord by taping a piece of thread to it and tieing it to the shock cord, or run a needle with a bit of string through the foam plug, take the needle off, and tie the string to the shock cord or parachute... the weight will be minimal and this will keep the foam plug with the rocket, preventing the litter problem, which will make your launch site landowner much happier... Pistons, of course, are tied to the shock cord and stay with the rocket, as they're reusable...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... you CAN reuse Estes wadding... I go around the field a day or two after the launch and pick up all the Estes wadding I can find (which helps since I live on the farm the club flies from) and stuff it in my pockets... drop it in a plastic bag in your launch box when I get back to the house...

Some of it will be partially burned or singed, some will have holes burned through it... use this stuff closest to the motor, and put less burned or unburned stuff near the top by the parachute... the burned stuff will take the brunt of the blast from the ejection charge, and probably be darn close to confetti after another launch, but the stuff higher up will catch anything that gets through and keep the chute from getting burned... and if you can find it, you can use it AGAIN down by the motor!
 
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DO NOT use FIBERGLASS insulation... the stuff is NON-BIODEGRADABLE and it will still be laying there 100 years from now... matted and washed flat and probably embedded with dirt, but the glass fibers themselves will still be completely intact... fiberglass insulation poses a threat to anyone else using the property-- from kids who may play with it or folks who might step or sit on it and get fiberglass fibers embedded in their skin (and thus get the "fiberglass itchies" and skin irritation, to animals that may ingest the fiberglass accidently which can seriously injur or probably kill the animal... grazing animals are particularly susceptible!

This * 1000

Use of Fiberglass insulation is one way to guarantee that the few places that still allow us to use their fields will no longer do so!
 
Please don't use anything like fiberglass insulation. It's not at all environmentally friendly (yeah, I'm a "tree-hugger"; get over it). Search the threads - there's plenty of talk about this elsewhere.

The cellulose insulation is a great way to go. I'd recommend having some of the Estes-type wadding around. For larger diameter body tubes, the dog barf can sometimes allow some blow by. I make a ball of dog barf and wrap it in the wadding; this, in addition to some more d.b. gives good protection to your recovery system.

This * 1000

Use of Fiberglass insulation is one way to guarantee that the few places that still allow us to use their fields will no longer do so!

Rocketry: Bringing Tree-Huggers and Right-Wing Wackos together since 1957.
 
I use Dog barf because it is so cheap. In my Larger HPR rockets I use Nomex Blankets. I never much cared for baffles. But, what ever you do, do not use fiberglass insulation.
 
I just use the shock cord in small (38-54mm) rockets. I have also seen people use grass and have no problems. I use nomex in everything else.
 
Ejection baffle every time I can.

I think that is part of the reason I love the BT-60. I try to make a baffle for just about every rocket I make with a tube larger than a BT-50 for D-E powered rockets.
 
I use dog barf (put in a five gallon bucket with a lid after I open the packaging) or I go to the party section of Wal-Mart and buy rolls of streamer for $1.00 each and use that. When I really get nostalgic, I un-roll rolls of toilet paper and dip in a boric acid solution to make my own flame proof wadding, but only if I have nothing else to do. It's sort of like watching paint dry.
 
I've seen other threads that talk about using lettuce leaves. I would guess cabbage would work, too.
If you do, make sure you get ALL of it out after the flight :smile: You won't like the result a couple weeks later if some is still in there :puke:
 
Well gollleee!. Then I bet spinach leaves would work and maybe celery leaves. And why not pumpkin or the ever present zucchini leaves (minus the zucchini)! Ought to throw the broccoli leaves in also. Puts a whole new meaning to tossed salad!@
 
Okay, no fiberglass! Got it!

I just bought a few sizes of Nomex blankets.

Do you still use dog barf or just the Nomex? And do you just lay the blanket into the tube like wadding or wrap the chute with it?

(I still can't believe Estes charges so freaking much!!!
 
I will use dog barf most of the time. Other times I use nothing. Let me explain. For example: my Gila Monster is motor deploy. I have a 3ft shockcord protector and a chute protector in there. When I pack the shockcord, I make sure the shockcord protector is right over the motor and I will carefully lay the rest on top with the chute protector fully wrapped around the chute.
 
Okay, no fiberglass! Got it!

I just bought a few sizes of Nomex blankets.

Do you still use dog barf or just the Nomex? And do you just lay the blanket into the tube like wadding or wrap the chute with it?

(I still can't believe Estes charges so freaking much!!!

I currently use Nomex blankets in my rockets, what i do is first run the shock cord through a hole in the nomex blanket and then i place it over the opening in the tube that it's meant to be going in evenly and place the parachute packed for flight and attached to the shock cord and push it down to the bottom. this way it protects the parachute on the bottom AND the sides to protect from any flaming particles that got around it. Most rockets i will also put baffles in if i have the room.
 
I currently use Nomex

I use Nomex mostly,
but a head of cabbage works great too. It is cool and moist, you can tear leafs to fit down in the tube. It absorbs heat, acts as a blast shield and is environmentally friendly.
 
Nomex is a great choice because not only can it be used over and over, but it is also generally remains attached to your recovery system. Since we rocketeers tend to be a little ADD, I can imagine there are more people than me who have had rockets fall to earth attached to a blob of plastic that once used to be a parachute.

Ditto on the fiberglass insulation. Most of our launch sites probably are in or surrounded by farmers' fields. You don't want what will eventually be on your dinner table to have fiberglass in it. One person mentioned that the glass fibers remain intact. However a portion of them are obliterated and blown into a fine powder when the ejection charge goes off. It is next to impossible to get every microscopic glass fiber off the crops. So if you use fiberglass insulation, you can count on some of it getting into your food supply.
 
Nomex is a great choice because not only can it be used over and over, but it is also generally remains attached to your recovery system. Since we rocketeers tend to be a little ADD, I can imagine there are more people than me who have had rockets fall to earth attached to a blob of plastic that once used to be a parachute.

Ditto on the fiberglass insulation. Most of our launch sites probably are in or surrounded by farmers' fields. You don't want what will eventually be on your dinner table to have fiberglass in it. One person mentioned that the glass fibers remain intact. However a portion of them are obliterated and blown into a fine powder when the ejection charge goes off. It is next to impossible to get every microscopic glass fiber off the crops. So if you use fiberglass insulation, you can count on some of it getting into your food supply.

Probably so (blown to bits of fiberglass).

The point I was trying to make is, the stuff DOES NOT ROT... throw a clump of fiberglass on the ground and if you look, it'll still be there years later... heck bury the stuff in the ground-- dig the spot up years later, it'll still be there... wet and full of dirt, probably, but it'll STILL BE INTACT...

You want something that will "rot" given enough time... paper will rot fairly quickly-- the smaller the particle size (dog barf versus sheet wadding) the faster it'll rot... foam plugs will lay around a couple years on/near the soil surface and SLOWLY disintegrate from UV attacking the foam and causing the outer layer to slowly "weather" away... if you bury the stuff where the solar UV can't get to it, it'll stay around a VERY long time...

Later! OL JR :)
 
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