What are the smallest LPRs you've ever clustered or staged? Was looking through the other forums while thinking about the size limitations at our

[Knuckledragger]

school grounds. Less than 500ft to either side, residential areas on three sides and automated sprinkler system! For students to get their go at either mode, I have to keep the rockets in sight and not set the neighborhood on fire.

 

[dhbarr]

Two MicroMaxx side-by-side, or else a MicroMaxx NE under a regular MicroMaxx.

Single-stage MMX ( not mine, for reference, weighs about 4 grams.

EDIT: A10 to MMX is supposed to be a hoot!

 

[75Grandville]

That's a pretty broad question.

You can stage and cluster MMX motors (6 mm - 1/8 A), so that's probably the easiest answer to your question.

That said, MMX requires a level of precision that I can struggle with as an experienced rocketry-hobby-person (Do we have a name for ourselves?). Fliskits offers a staged kit for the MMX, and at least one cluster.

<Someone already beat me to it>

Are you looking for something as a demo, or something for students to build and fly?

Given the constraints you listed above, something big and draggy to fly on a cluster, maybe a staged saucer like the Fliskits Frick-n-Frack (currently OOP). Fliskits Deuces Wild would fit the bill, as it flies on a pair of A8-3 motors. It's also $20 per kit (I ran a rocketry club, and $ was an issue).

Art Applewhite used to make a cluster saucer, but looks like he's stopped for now.

I kitbashed a Super Neon 3XL^2 - two stage, 3 x 18mm motors to 3 x 18mm motors with air-gap staging. On 3 B6-0 it would stage at about 20' up. Great for demos. You could build and fly that with B6-0 to A8-5 (after checking the simulations to make sure it would work for you).

Did a little more poking around. Custom Aztec sims to about 700' on an A8-0 to an A8-5, even though those are not recommended motors. Leaves the pad at 52 fps, so I would feel comfortable launching it.

 

[GlenP]

how about a 13mm two stage saucer?
https://estesrockets.com/product/007250-twin-factor/
FlisKits TriFecta is three stage
https://www.fliskits.com/WPRESS/product/trifecta/
canted cluster MMX
https://www.fliskits.com/WPRESS/product/diminutive-deuce/

 

[NOLA_BAR]

Squirrel Works Too-Cool For Spool. Great 2-stage for small field. Use C11-0.

 

[MALBAR 70]

I have flown my Estes Epic II/Sterling Silver on an A8-0 to a 1/2A 6-2 several times. Although the sustainer delay is a bit short, it still gives a great flight on the small field I have access to at this time.

 

[Charles_McG]

I downscaled an Estes Little Beth X-2 to BT20 and 13mm motors - 3x13mm cluster staging to 13mm.

 

[Antares JS]

Mini Comanche 3 is a fun one, but leave out the stage couplers. Mine ejected the second stage motor but not the second stage airframe and the second stage airframe was toasted by the third stage motor.

 

[neil_w]

I haven't, but clustered 13mm motors should be easy to keep within a small field.

My Astron Elliptic II, 2-staged 13mm, doesn't go very high, and comes down pretty close to the pad on a streamer.

 

[Charles_McG]

Mini Comanche 3 is a fun one, but leave out the stage couplers. Mine ejected the second stage motor but not the second stage airframe and the second stage airframe was toasted by the third stage motor.

I had a similar problem with the Tiny Beth.

 

[Charles_McG]

I found a picture of my Tiny Beth X-2

 

[MALBAR 70]

Mini Comanche 3 is a fun one, but leave out the stage couplers. Mine ejected the second stage motor but not the second stage airframe and the second stage airframe was toasted by the third stage motor.

I had this exact same thing happen on the first flight of my Mini Comanche 3.

I found a picture of my Tiny Beth X-2
View attachment 421833

That is pretty cool, I may have to make something along similar lines.
Do the pods have streamers in them?

 

[Charles_McG]

Plan here:
https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/eirp_57.htm
I used modern plastic nosecones from estes. Yes, I put streamers in the pods, but it was a tight fit. In a new build, I'd be inclined to leave them out and go 'drogueless', as it were. Or maybe leave the base off the nosecone and glue the thin kevlar up into the tip to get some more space.

IIRC, I tended to fly it with a pair of 1/2A3-2T in the pods, an A10-0T in the booster core and either an A3-4T or a B4-3M in the sustainer. It goes high.

 

[Back_at_it]

The first and smallest staged rocket I've ever flown was the Estes Mini Cobra. Great flights on the A10 booster with a 1/4A3 motors.

Smallest cluster i've ever flown is a Baby Ranger based on the Baby Bertha kit.

 

[kuririn]

"Smallest" staged production model rocket kit would be the Fliskits Doubles - two stage MX powered.
Smallest clustered production kit that I know of would be the Fliskits Dimunitive Deuce - 2X MX power.
But if size of the field is the main concern then I would look at altitude, not size.
High drag odd rocs give a good show and don't go very high.
Saucers, pyramids, spinners, spool rockets, etc.
Match engine selection to the size of the field.
I've launched a 3X18mm Semroc Defender on 1/2A engines, altitude was maybe 150 ft., recovered 50 ft from the launch pad.

 

[Knuckledragger]

Thank you all. Our industrial robotics applications teacher and I were kicking this around before Covid and school shutdown. Who knows what the new school year will look like but I like having options and ideas to throw out there for upcoming conversations. New school for me, new admin, and a new direction; who knows where this will go in three months!

 

[stealth6]

How about three 24mm and nine 18mm (black powder) motors?

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/4-stage-3-way-cluster-future-history.61936/

Of course, your requirement that "it not set the neighborhood on fire" might be a limiting factor.

s6

 

[mbeels]

How about three 24mm and nine 18mm (black powder) motors?

OH my goodness, did you ever build the new one you were planning?

 

[dpower]

Mini Comanche 3 is a fun one, but leave out the stage couplers. Mine ejected the second stage motor but not the second stage airframe and the second stage airframe was toasted by the third stage motor.

The Mini-Comanche 3 is great, doesn't need a large field. I've flown mine at least half a dozen times, all 3 stages have always functioned - couplers have worked fine, but get more toasted on each flight. If you like more motors, the Semroc Hydra VII flies on 7 motors, and doesn't go crazy high if using A or B motors. That said, I prefer flying mine on 7x C6 motors.

 

[ATJOE1972]

I was thinking of doing a three 13mm cluster in a Baby Bertha. I don’t have a lot of acreage to play with. I figure three A3-4T’s wouldn’t be too wild.?

 

[Joshua F Thomas]

If you're looking for a cluster 13mm kit, Rocketarium has the Trident T117-13: https://www.rocketarium.com/Rockets/Trident/13?cPath=17&

The kit is frequently out of stock, but if you check around other vendors you should be able to find it. I have the larger 18mm version; it's a nice build.

 

[Daddyisabar]

Don't do this: 12 motors, 3 stage 4 motor cluster tractored.

 

[Joshua F Thomas]

For when you want to spend I motor prices but use black powder?

 

[Daddyisabar]

For when you want to spend I motor prices but use black powder?

For when someone gives you a bunch of 13mm motors and have some spare parts laying around, called it Sharknader cause it was kinda silly, kinda stupid sort of thing. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[tlainhart]

Mini Comanche 3 is a fun one, but leave out the stage couplers. Mine ejected the second stage motor but not the second stage airframe and the second stage airframe was toasted by the third stage motor.

Similar problems on multiple flights. Leaving out the couplers is a good idea - worked well for a micro-manche I made from a SP plan years ago.

 

[RocketTree]

I build BT80 size rockets with 2 or 3 cluster of C6-3 and they'll do around 400-500' max. Heavier nose cone for lower altitude.

 

[Back_at_it]

I was thinking of doing a three 13mm cluster in a Baby Bertha. I don’t have a lot of acreage to play with. I figure three A3-4T’s wouldn’t be too wild.?

This is exactly what I did. Took a Baby Bertha and built myself a 3 motor cluster using 13mm motors. Mine weights in at 3.08oz empty. The A3-4T is the perfect motor choice. Gets you off the pad quick and flies around 400ft. Delay is perfect at 4 seconds.

I've flown it on the A10-3T as well and it leaves the pad in a hurry but they burn out quick. According to the Estes altimeter I got 350ft but the delay pops early so it limits apogee. If there was such a thing as an A10-4T that would be perfect.

Limit the size of the spill hole in the chute. The extra weight of the engines bring it down pretty good. Worth mentioning that I did not need to add nose weight and it flies straight as an arrow.

 

[ATJOE1972]

Thank you for your timely and informative response I wanted to try a cluster build, but keep it within the realistic limits of my launch space. Good information on the engine performance and parachute requirements. Looks like I‘m going to the Hobby store and picking up a Baby Bertha this weekend

 

[Jeff Curtis]

Estes Checkmate two-stager might fit the bill. 13mm to 13mm. Stages not much over 100' up.

 

[JoePfeiffer]

My first camera rocket years ago used a cluster of four A10s. I named the rocket the "C40" because arithmetic.