We did this before, Xyla's at it again

[bjphoenix]

Just saw this posted:

 

[cerving]

Obviously at FAR... I'm surprised they didn't have to launch from the bunkers.

 

[bjphoenix]

I am extremely disappointed that they made no attempt to make it stable and they had no recovery system. That thing was heavy enough and fast enough to seriously hurt someone. I've seen unstable rockets end up on the ground and keep moving around. That could have ended badly.

 

[cwbullet]

I am extremely disappointed that they made no attempt to make it stable and they had no recovery system. That thing was heavy enough and fast enough to seriously hurt someone. I've seen unstable rockets end up on the ground and keep moving around. That could have ended badly.

Same here. That could have flown with a better build and have been recoverable.

 

[OzHybrid]

With no attempt at recovery, they have risked losing their certifications. Amusing as it was, the rules still apply. But Norm, those rules don't apply. This launch was at FAR... Yes, they do.....

Conducting Flights
• FAR 101.25 requires that HPR must not be flown:
− In a manner that creates hazard to persons, property, or aircraft

NFPA1127

 

[Rschub]

What was you all's opinion of the christmas tree flight from last year? Would it be the same thing rule wise? I am still trying to get my head around all these situational rules.

Edit: I seem to remember a Darth Vader being launched in a recent video, at LDRS.

 

[rfjustin]

What was you all's opinion of the christmas tree flight from last year? Would it be the same thing rule wise? I am still trying to get my head around all these situational rules.

Edit: I seem to remember a Darth Vader being launched in a recent video, at LDRS.

Darth flew at LDRS and Airfest, parachute recovery both times.

 

[Buckeye]

This flight was totally pointless, and the outcome was expected.

Too bad Joe B has lowered himself to this kind of idiocy.

 

[techrat]

Wasn't there some Youtuber who deliberatly flew a plane into a mountain as a stunt? I'm starting to think that youtube people just do whatever the F they want and worry about the consequences later because clicks. And clicks == cash, which is really the goal.

It's only a matter of time that youtubers start murdering people because people will watch it.

 

[Rschub]

The LDRS video I saw of DV was certainly entertaining.

I just find it curious that people will argue over rules minutia like a Sicilian with death on the line, when people can't follow the simplest rules, such as close the cow gate behind you, or don't play with rocket engines in your hotel room.

The rules can't save you from people or random factors aligning against you.

I do believe that through peer pressure this sort of thing should be nipped in the bud, because the end goal is clicks on youtube, which is another way of saying it is being done for monetary reasons.

The youtuber mentioned above bailed out of his plane and let it crash wherever. His flying license was revoked.

 

[Antares JS]

It's only a matter of time that youtubers start murdering people because people will watch it.

Some woman got arrested after live streaming her participation in the recent looting in Philadelphia.

 

[neil_w]

It's only a matter of time that youtubers start murdering people because people will watch it.

It is a bit much to start with Xyla's video and end up at murders for views. There is some particularly stupid stuntery on Youtube but associating Xyla with that sort of thing is not fair.

That said, while this video was silly and fun, it was far less ambitious than her usual. Seemingly no attempt to make it stable or recover properly, which was disappointing.

Finally: I've seen plenty of videos of weird unstable skywriters on this forum, and the main reaction seems to be "ha ha that was great". Not sure what's different here.

 

[Rschub]

It's only a matter of time that youtubers start murdering people because people will watch it.

[Final line in the film] This was the story of Howard Beale: The first known instance of a man who was killed because he had lousy ratings. Network,1975

 

[techrat]

There is some particularly stupid stuntery on Youtube but associating Xyla with that sort of thing is not fair.

I'm not associating Xyla specifically, but I am pointing out that Youtube is a kind of free market for idiots that compete with one another for clicks. And one-uppsmanship sooner or later leads to people who care more about garnering eyeballs than if what they are doing is safe or legal, or if it could potentially harm others.

Mythbusters, for example, went out of their way to have safety on the set, and still things went sideways on occasion -- the cannonball that went through someone's house was a perfect example, and this was with an entire safety team on-hand.

 

[techrat]

The first known instance of a man who was killed because he had lousy ratings. Network,1975

Yes, Network -- one of my favorite films. Not to bring 'politics' into the forum, but in Xmas of 2016, I gave out sets of DVDs to friends. The two films I gifted to everyone I knew was "Network" and the other was the Peter Sellers film "Being There" -- to help explain the situation we were in.

 

[FredA]

With no attempt at recovery, they have risked losing their certifications. Amusing as it was, the rules still apply. But Norm, those rules don't apply. This launch was at FAR... Yes, they do.....

This was nothing but a stunt that was poorly planned.
It had ZERO chance of flying.
All involved, including whomever was the RSO, should be reprimanded and threatened with pulling their certs' if it happens again.

And WHO is selling her motors well beyond their cert level???
My understanding is that she's [barely] an L2.
I thought that was illegal.

NAR and TRA should take action to prohibit this kind of stunt.

 

[cwbullet]

And WHO is selling her motors well beyond their cert level??? I thought that was illegal.

Do you know her cert level? I do not know much about her and I did not see her flight card. I certainly do not know her certification record or who the flier of record is. She could also be a student.

I agree with you that it was a stunt and should not fly without a recovery system.

 

[FredA]

She could also be a student.

Being a student?
That means anyone in Kindergarden can buy L3 motors?

You need to be on a University/College sponsored team and have the school buy the motors to claim this exemption, AFAIK.

Even Frank flew a "recovery T-shirt" --- it's required you at least TRY for a recovery. No chute for something this size is an absolute violation of our rules and of common sense.

 

[Spitfire222]

I watch BPS Space and Xyla's videos (though I'm not really interested in the ones like this skeleton rocket or the Christmas tree), and I'm glad that they show that rocketry and engineering can be fun and exciting, something that's needed to help attract people to STEM. What I'm not a huge fan of is that sometimes I feel they take it a step too far, and their attempts to be cool/wacky causes them to miss things that cause issues later. Anyone else feel this, or am I the only one that thinks that?

Also, a common theme is them rushing to do something to meet a deadline that often times leads them to cutting corners. Legitimate question: what are these deadlines? Are they self-imposed for YT videos, or related to sponsors or something? I admit I know very little about YouTube as a career, but to the best of my knowledge, they don't appear to have traditional 9-5 jobs. With the cost of things they do, I'm assuming they make their income from YT and sponsors. If that's the case, there's no boss or client enforcing deadlines, so why the rush? Again, I'm just completely ignorant of how it all works for them.

 

[cwbullet]

Being a student?
That means anyone in Kindergarden can buy L3 motors?

You need to be on a University/College sponsored team and have the school buy the motors to claim this exemption, AFAIK.

Even Frank flew a "recovery T-shirt" --- it's required you TRY.

No, but with a flier of record, she can fly as high as the flier of record if she is a sponsored college team. That was my question, do you know her certification level and do you know she is not on a college team?

It is easy to put blame on the flier and make conjecture about her flying motors she is not certified to fly. We have too many missing answers to assume that.

That being said, the RSO and Flyer of Record should know better.

 

[Alan15578]

She's all that and a bag of chips. Still, she could have dropped in a Latin incantation. I'd like to see a crossover video with Xyla, Xander, and Xena.

Did the motor case survive to fly again?

 

[FredA]

Looks to me - I could EASILY BE WRONG - but it looks like the motors come from somebody who is also on the TRA BOD.
Hopefully that person thinks hard about those sales.....or more importantly, future sales.

 

[Rschub]

Also, a common theme is them rushing to do something to meet a deadline that often times leads them to cutting corners

I have mentioned before that I know a YouTube content creator. They are always rushed.

There is a person standing around filming all the time, and hours of footage has to be gone through and edited to get to the final product you see.

The "deadlines" are there to add drama to the storyline and could be real depending on launch site/equipment/spare time availability, or next month's rent date.

The cutting corners thing is to show how "clever" they are without doing something obviously stupid. The blue tape being used as a Workholding fixture come to mind.

YouTube has an "algorithm" that promotes your channel and video depending on subject, length, time between videos and other factors. This is a huge influence on what gets created, and the style of it.

Unfortunately, YouTube has great influence on how any hobby is perceived by the general public. I can assure you that in other hobbies there are far, far, far worse examples of people monetizing their hobby without regard for the consequences to everyone else. We don't want to be them.

Having said all that, I don't think this is worth getting too worked up over. If every third video was like this that would be different.

 

[samb]

Rail against the madness BUT... not NAR, not Tripoli.



https://friendsofamateurrocketry.org/

 

[bad_idea]

Regarding her cert level, as per NAR and TRA websites today, Xyla has a recently-expired a NAR L2 membership and is not currently a member of Tripoli (TRA does not show expired memberships, so perhaps she was at one time).

I don't know FAR's rules, but from what I've seen online, flyers buying and flying motors they wouldn't be allowed to fly with NAR or TRA is not uncommon. FAR is unique in terms of how they go about conducting launches, but they seem to have been running safe launches for a very long time. So I'm not concerned in the least about the motor (even if there hadn't been at least two L3s assisting her), but I am concerned about the flying of an obviously unstable "rocket" with no recovery gear.

On the other hand, if FAR was okay with it and if it was within their rules, who am I to condem it? That doesn't mean that I have to like it though. After Xyla's last rocket video where she built and flew a sophisticated carbon rocket on an L3 motor, this silly stunt is a comedown. At least with the Christmas trees, they attempt stability and recovery.

 

[FredA]

Rail against the madness BUT... not NAR, not Tripoli.

View attachment 608028

https://friendsofamateurrocketry.org/

One or more of our members are doing stupid pet tricks against our rules and demonstrating anything but best practices for CLICKS.

While I agree it was not at a sanctioned TRA or NAR launch, it is OUR hobby being impacted.
If the flyer of record was a NAR member, would their insurance company care about this?
How does this reflect on the TRA and NAR members involved - shouldn't they know better - shouldn't we [collectively] care that they apparently don't?

 

[wsume99]

I don't see anything in the NAR or TRA safety code saying the rules apply only if you are launching at a NAR or TRA sanctioned launch. As it reads, even if I'm launching on my own property, I am required to follow the safety codes of the organizations I am a member of. Am I wrong here?

 

[Spitfire222]

I have mentioned before that I know a YouTube content creator. They are always rushed.

There is a person standing around filming all the time, and hours of footage has to be gone through and edited to get to the final product you see.

The "deadlines" are there to add drama to the storyline and could be real depending on launch site/equipment/spare time availability, or next month's rent date.

The cutting corners thing is to show how "clever" they are without doing something obviously stupid. The blue tape being used as a Workholding fixture come to mind.

YouTube has an "algorithm" that promotes your channel and video depending on subject, length, time between videos and other factors. This is a huge influence on what gets created, and the style of it.

Unfortunately, YouTube has great influence on how any hobby is perceived by the general public. I can assure you that in other hobbies there are far, far, far worse examples of people monetizing their hobby without regard for the consequences to everyone else. We don't want to be them.

Having said all that, I don't think this is worth getting too worked up over. If every third video was like this that would be different.

Thanks for the insight. There's no getting worked up over anything, just some things I think to myself when watching their vids. I think the pros of their content in attracting people to STEM greatly outweigh the tiny things that I roll my eyes at!

 

[NTP2]

I looked at the FAR website and there is no information on rules more than a disclaimer of danger. Does anyone fly there?

Edit also FAR is not a club like most places to fly.

 

[Rschub]

FAR seems like a great facility and asset for the hobby and I wish there was somewhere like that near me.

I would guess that when you have things like "O" motors blowing up during testing, a little Xmas rocket or skeleton doll seems pretty tame.

The bottom line is that facility is theirs to run as they wish, and no amount of forum kvetching will change that.

I would bet that the leadership discussed this subject at length privately already and are currently seeing how it plays out before imposing outright bans on these stunts. They probably don't want to do something that seems like blanket discouragement to ideas that the younger members come up with.