Using a Jolly Logic chute release for my level 1?

[RocketSquirrel]

Im building my LOC IV and im almost ready to paint. Havent picked a motor yet for my level 1. I have several Im looking at for a low and launch. I've never used my jolly logic chute system, and im worried if i add layers of complexity there are more chances something goes wrong.

Would it even be needed? Im shooting for 1800-2000 feet so not too high but anything to prevent loosing it.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[waltr]

How big is the field?
Winds? Speed and Direction...


If you have never used a JLCR then I do NOT recommend using it for the first time on a Cert flight.
I have personally seen two L1 cert flights fail due to JLCH fowling the chute and something breaks upon impact.

 

[tim cubbedge]

I did my L1 on a LOC-IV long before the chute release was around and probably hit about 1800’. With light winds, I say no need, especially if you’ve got a large recovery area. If winds are a concern, then why not use it.

 

[Upsrocketman]

If you have used a Jolly Logic before and had success I don't see a problem using it. But be cautious, I used one for my L1 attempt and it opened at apogee and that was a disqualifying event according to my prefect. Launched again without the JL and got my L1.

 

[Rob Campbell]

For a motor, the Aerotech H-100 is good, if you prefer a single-use motor. If you prefer reloads, the Aerotech H-123 is good. Each will give you 1800 to 2000 feet, low enough to see the entire flight.

 

[RocketSquirrel]

If you have used a Jolly Logic before and had success I don't see a problem using it. But be cautious, I used one for my L1 attempt and it opened at apogee and that was a disqualifying event according to my prefect. Launched again without the JL and got my L1.

Wouldnt the shoot open at/around apogee without the JL? I just dont see his logic unless im misunderstanding something

 

[Art Upton]

If you have used a Jolly Logic before and had success I don't see a problem using it. But be cautious, I used one for my L1 attempt and it opened at apogee and that was a disqualifying event according to my prefect. Launched again without the JL and got my L1.

Technically on a L3 that might disqualify a TRA L3 cert, but on an L1?

If it was a safe return it is a safe return on an L1. I was a prefect many moons ago. BUT on a TRA L3, every aspect of the detail of flight documented must match. So an Early Main could disqualify it. Many TRA packages started to document that at certain conditions an "early main" might happen. I have not been on the TRA prefect pages in years after that started , I bet they overruled that loophole.

NAR L3 is any safe landing is a good landing. [If it lands outside of the safe area of the launch, it is not a safe landing]

I see you are in Michigan, where do you fly at? Three Oaks, or the East side of the state group?

 

[tsmith1315]

I've never used my jolly logic chute system, and im worried if i add layers of complexity there are more chances something goes wrong.

Good thinking.

A 4” rocket at 2000’ would be a very comfortable flight for motor ejection. To me.

Size your chute for the flight conditions.

 

[Art Upton]

Keep in mind LOC IV have fins that extend below the end of the body tube. Not on any cert flights but I have cracked a fin on a chute sized to meet the size the field and the wind. I still have in the shed to fix some day , that probably won't happen now.

But it was the modified version with 29mm center and 4 24mm outboards in the centering ring. Fins still the same design. It last flew with an I69 [Ellis Mountain motor] and 4 outboard D-12 on wick [back when you could get it] to airstart after the main motor lit.

Edit: that was before LOC was using fins that went all the way to the motor tube in the new re-designs. If you have one that is attached to motor tube don't worry about that. The early ones only went a little in the body tube, not to the motor mount.

 

[Pinetree]

I'm no expert, but I am L1, and I also own a JLCR.

All I have to say is that failure is always an option.. so you might want to consider keeping it simple for your cert flight.

Good luck.

 

[Upsrocketman]

Technically on a L3 that might disqualify a TRA L3 cert, but on an L1?

If it was a safe return it is a safe return on an L1. I was a prefect many moons ago. BUT on a TRA L3, every aspect of the detail of flight documented must match. So an Early Main could disqualify it. Many TRA packages started to document that at certain conditions an "early main" might happen. I have not been on the TRA prefect pages in years after that started , I bet they overruled that loophole.

NAR L3 is any safe landing is a good landing. [If it lands outside of the safe area of the launch, it is not a safe landing]

I see you are in Michigan, where do you fly at? Three Oaks, or the East side of the state group?

Prefect stated that because the recovery system did not function as intended, it didn't qualify for a cert. It was no big deal, I still got my L1.

I fly with Michigan Team-1 over in flint. I would like to make it over to a three oaks launch this season.

 

[Sterk03]

I flew a SBR fusion 3 for my level 1 and had the same decision it was windy and I did not want to lose the rocket but I did not want to lose cert one on a jolly malfunction. I recommend going on a lesser motor and chasing the rocket as I did with a nice size chute. You don’t have to set an altitude record launch one, after you get the very then go higher and use the Jolly. Enjoy the flight and day. Go low go chute. Good luck.

 

[Scott_650]

I used my JLCR for my L1 cert flight - didn’t really need it that day since we had near zero winds - but I’d flown the rocket, a 4” Crayon rocket with plenty of heft, many, many times successfully with my chute release. I went with the “don’t do anything different on game/race day” philosophy. If you’ve flown your rocket, on your field, with your JLCR successfully than stick with it - if not then I’m with the others who’ve chimed in, don’t add a new factor on cert day.

 

[David Schwantz]

To the OP. Why don't you just fly a couple of "training" flights with the JLCR before your attempt? That way if you do choose to use it for the cert flight you will have a little experience under your belt. Good luck.

 

[RocketSquirrel]

For a motor, the Aerotech H-100 is good, if you prefer a single-use motor. If you prefer reloads, the Aerotech H-123 is good. Each will give you 1800 to 2000 feet, low enough to see the entire flight.

Yes! The H100 is on my short list, i was also thinking H115 for a thick black

I flew a SBR fusion 3 for my level 1 and had the same decision it was windy and I did not want to lose the rocket but I did not want to lose cert one on a jolly malfunction. I recommend going on a lesser motor and chasing the rocket as I did with a nice size chute. You don’t have to set an altitude record launch one, after you get the very then go higher and use the Jolly. Enjoy the flight and day. Go low go chute. Good luck.

Lol i thought about just adding a bunch of weight, make it go up like 1000 ft lol

 

[MikeT]

Set up correctly the JL Chute Release works great. I use it all the time on fights to 2000 ft. I set it to open at 500ft. Makes for a short recovery walk. I've used one on both my L1 and L2 certification flights.

 

[RocketSquirrel]

To the OP. Why don't you just fly a couple of "training" flights with the JLCR before your attempt? That way if you do choose to use it for the cert flight you will have a little experience under your belt. Good luck.

I normally use launch lugs, however this is a step up to rail guides, i dont have a rig built yet. Im sure that can be simple to make, good point. I have a couple F and G motors... ill run a few simulations in open rocket for what i have and see what i can use

 

[RocketSquirrel]

Keep in mind LOC IV have fins that extend below the end of the body tube. Not on any cert flights but I have cracked a fin on a chute sized to meet the size the field and the wind. I still have in the shed to fix some day , that probably won't happen now.

But it was the modified version with 29mm center and 4 24mm outboards in the centering ring. Fins still the same design. It last flew with an I69 [Ellis Mountain motor] and 4 outboard D-12 on wick [back when you could get it] to airstart after the main motor lit.

Edit: that was before LOC was using fins that went all the way to the motor tube in the new re-designs. If you have one that is attached to motor tube don't worry about that. The early ones only went a little in the body tube, not to the motor mount.

Yep this ones got the fins attached to the motor tube.

 

[dhbarr]

Lol i thought about just adding a bunch of weight, make it go up like 1000 ft lol

Be advised that by adding that weight, you increase the loads experienced by the recovery system and also the fins on landing.

 

[bad_idea]

I've never used my jolly logic chute system, and im worried if i add layers of complexity there are more chances something goes wrong.

Would it even be needed? Im shooting for 1800-2000 feet so not too high but anything to prevent loosing it.

If the wind is high or the field is small, I'd definitely recommend using the chute release on a flight to 2k.

Be sure to do a release test after packing your chute to insure nothing binds, then repack, then perform a shake test, then - most important of all - be sure it's turned back on before buttoning up the rocket.

I see you're in Plano. Will you be flying the L1 with DARS?

 

[sr205347d]

Set up correctly the JL Chute Release works great. I use it all the time on fights to 2000 ft. I set it to open at 500ft. Makes for a short recovery walk. I've used one on both my L1 and L2 certification flights.

To be clear, most JLCR “failures” are not failures of the JLCR but of the packing job. Just read the instructions, and watch the videos. Do practice flights. You don’t need a big rocket for that. I have used it in a BT-60 Star Orbiter.

A side benefit of the JLCR is that it can prevent zippering.

 

[sr205347d]

I recently did my L1 using a LOC IV, JLCR, and a DMS H219.

 

[waltr]

To be clear, most JLCR “failures” are not failures of the JLCR but of the packing job. Just read the instructions, and watch the videos. Do practice flights. You don’t need a big rocket for that. I have used it in a BT-60 Star Orbiter.

A side benefit of the JLCR is that it can prevent zippering.

The other failure I have seen multiple times is forgetting to turn it on.

 

[sr205347d]

The other failure I have seen multiple times is forgetting to turn it on.

I saw someone forget to tether it to the rocket. It worked great, once.

 

[Pinetree]

That happened to a guy at our last launch.

 

[RocketSquirrel]

If the wind is high or the field is small, I'd definitely recommend using the chute release on a flight to 2k.

Be sure to do a release test after packing your chute to insure nothing binds, then repack, then perform a shake test, then - most important of all - be sure it's turned back on before buttoning up the rocket.

I see you're in Plano. Will you be flying the L1 with DARS?

Yep! This will be my first launch with DARS and really my first group flight. Im used to doing things solo. I guess ill see you there? My names Johnny! Im 34 and i got long hair.

 

[bad_idea]

Yep! This will be my first launch with DARS and really my first group flight. Im used to doing things solo. I guess ill see you there? My names Johnny! Im 34 and i got long hair.

Welcome to DARS! Yes, I should be at that launch. If you've not already done so, mail DARS President George Sprague and tell him you're wanting to cert L1 at the next Gunter launch.

 

[RocketSquirrel]

Welcome to DARS! Yes, I should be at that launch. If you've not already done so, mail DARS President George Sprague and tell him you're wanting to cert L1 at the next Gunter launch.

George The Magician? Pretty sure ive been talking to him throughout this journey! He says him and Sam are the ones that will be approving me for flight. My wife is making fun of my "extreme" attention to detail when im doing something i love haha hopefully it pays off and its a successful flight! I'm extremely grateful for you guys helping with this

 

[bad_idea]

George The Magician? Pretty sure ive been talking to him throughout this journey! He says him and Sam are the ones that will be approving me for flight. My wife is making fun of my "extreme" attention to detail when im doing something i love haha hopefully it pays off and its a successful flight! I'm extremely grateful for you guys helping with this

That would be the one. Sounds like you're in good hands. Beware, while he's a good magician, his jokes are terrible.

Sam is @samb here on TRF.

 

[MoeFaux]

My first flight with the JLCR failed. As stated above, it was a human error rather than equipment malfunction, but my rocket hit the ground at 16 mph nonetheless. In my case, the nomex was attached to the recovery harness too close to the chute, and it kept the whole chute cradled from beneath even after the JL let go, thus preventing air from ever inflating the chute.7
Moral of the story: practice and test with your new gear to learn it before flying it on a cert launch. You might not yet know enough to know what you don't know.