TLP Nike Ajax Build Thread

[SteveA]

The Build

There is a caveat in regards to this build thread. Since this is the first of its kind for me, I will be taking this build rather slow. This is good for me in a way, because I tend to get complacent and this kit will force me to slow down and be a little more thoughtful in my procedures. Please indulge me in my pace. Also, I know this kit is designated a mid-power, but since it will fly on Ds, I thought I would leave it in this group. If you feel it should be moved I understand.

The Kit
This is The Launch Pad’s Nike Ajax, mid-power, level four rocket, designed to fly on a cluster of three D12-5 motors. When completed, the rocket will measure 55.5 inches in length with a 2.6-inch diameter. Upon first inspection of the kit, you will notice it contains numerous parts and a veritable balsa lumberyard! You will notice that the fins are not precut and require the use of fin templates to trace-out the fins and cut them from the supplied balsa sheets. In addition to the fin templates, there is a paper transition for the booster and sustainer interstage and templates to create the antennas for the Nike missile. (The arrowhead shapes located to the left on the balsa pile) The kit also includes two 18 by 30 Mylar chutes that can be sized to two 24 inch octagonal chutes. The instructions are well written and I have only run across a procedural example or two that seemed vague. However, if you take your time, read the instructions carefully, dry-fit the sub assemblies and compare it to the diagrams I do not believe that you will have problems with the construction of this kit.

The kit layout:

Step 1.
As per of the instructions the first step is to break the clay into pellets and tamp them into the nose for weight. However, I chose to bypass this step for now. I ran across another build review on a TLP kit and one concern was that the clay was dry and per the instructions, the builder added water to return the clay to its original pliability. However, the reviewer stated that after doing this, it made the situation worse by turning the clay into a slimy unusable mess. In the end, they resorted to replacing the kit’s clay with modeling clay. In my example, the clay is dried- out as well and I suspect that I will weigh-out some modeling clay to replace the kit’s clay.

The Business End
Since for now, I have bypassed step1 we will move into step 2, which concerns the construction of the cluster assembly. The build is straightforward and the assembly includes three motor tubes, three metal motor retainers, two centering rings, and card stock that is to be cut into three tabs to hold the metal retainers in place on the side of the motor tubes. TLP suggest the use of CA or concentrated white glue for the construction. I chose to use carpenter’s glue due to my lack of faith in a CA bond under extreme stresses. (maybe it’s just the CA that I use, I dunno)

Components of the cluster assembly:

Metal motor retainers in place

In addition, I have scrounged thrust rings from my spares box to add to this assembly because the retainer clips seem a bit “light” and I would feel better about that extra measure to prevent a motor from shooting out of the top of my rocket. After a few hours of gluing, fiddling, and drying, you have a completed, three -motor cluster assembly. An important note, the instructions are adamant that you DO NOT seal the gap between the three motor tubes. This gap serves as relief for overpressure of the tubes during the ejection charge and care must be taken when gluing this assembly together and avoid obstructing this gap. With my modification, the completed assembly weighs 0.5 oz or 16 grams. The only other modification I would have preferred to make is the shock cord. This kit uses the Estes (as I have heard it referred to and seems appropriate) “tea bag” shock cord mount. (Which I am not a big fan of.) I would rather had ran a length of Kevlar cord from the motor assembly to the shock cord up through the interstage tubing into the upper body tubing. Unfortunately I did not have that much Kevlar laying around and towards the top of the upper body tube there is a semi-bulkhead made of one of the smaller rings to serve as a divider for a chute compartment. I am unsure if this modification would have interfered with the ejection charge and deployment of the recovery device and with that, I will just stick with the instructions on this.

Dry fitting the assembly

Assembly glued and drying:

Modification with the addition of thrust rings

Step 3, The Interstage –Thrust Assembly
After completing the motor assembly, the next step is the construction of the interstage assembly which consists of a 12 inch- 1.0 diameter tube, a paper transition, 3/32 balsa and 1/16th balsa, two large centering rings and three small centering rings. Construction begins by cutting out the paper transition and gluing it in place at the 6-inch mark of the 12-inch tube. It is at this point, that I have not glued anything into place, but I have dry-fitted most of the assembly to give you an idea of how it will look. In review, the build, thus far, has not been difficult or complicated. If you take your time, dry-fit your parts, and compare it to the diagrams, you should be good to go.

Completed transition and dry-fitted interstage assembly

And this completes the first installment of this thread. I will try to have another ready by next week.

Thanks for your time.
Steve

 

[kelltym88]

I've built this kit,definitely a builders kit. A couple of observations/suggestions:

The balsa is very thin, I mean very thin(at least on the one I built). It was suggested to cover the fins in CA, bit I found it had a tendency to warp them. If I could do it again, I'd dump the supplied balsa and use a thicker stock, or maybe even basswood.

Second, the mylar chutes are just not worth it. They tangle too easily and it's just a mess. I'd suggest replacing it with a nice nylon chute, there are plenty of vendors who supply them. And reinforcing the attachment or even incorporating a nice basswood CR for that would be a good idea.

Nice build so far....

 

[sandman]

Since I make my own kits I don't build a lot of kits that aren't mine. Just because of time not a preference.

This was one of my favorite builds but DO NOT OVER BUILD IT!

Build it light according to the instructions and she will be a super flyer on a three engine cluster.

The only modifications I would make is to set it up with longer engine hooks and motor mounts for the future Estes E12 motors but with spacers to fly it for now on three D12's.

Mine flew great and it wasn't until the next launch I discovered only 2 motors ignited!

Notice in the picture only two exhaust flames.

So build it light...just in case.

Find someone with a band saw and cut the upper stage conduits on that. It's a lot easier than sanding!

 

[gdjsky01]

Experiment with the balsa and fins. I've used CA and plastic sheeting (like the kit bag) to sandwich them between flats and weight them down while the CA kicks. Yes it messy and you have to quick. Or you can paper them. Or as mentioned go with thicker stock. Maybe some here can give you their CG so if yuo do go with thicker, and therefore heavier fins, you can be sure of stable flight.

Remember their is a ton of know how here. Tap into it whenever you need to!:wink:

Take all the time you need. Looking forward to the build. op:

 

[gdjsky01]

Good call on thrust rings. For rockets that lasts a long time it's the hook moving forward (as the ejection charges take their toll on the tubes) that I have found to be a problem. The thrust rings solve that.

Listen to sandman light makes flight.

 

[Daddyisabar]

After 5 flights my label papered balsa fins have been just fine - plenty strong, easy to build and nice and light on the hind end. If I were to build again the only thing I would do different is to strengthen the body tube in front of the motor mount with some thin CA. That area gets a lot of abuse from ejection charges and landing impact. The mylar chutes are a bit of a pain but lots of crumpling and talc will get you by if you are too cheap for nylon. Limited room for chutes and you need all the chute you can get to bring her down nice and soft. Use an angled blast deflector to avoid back end burn. Paint gloss - use aftermarket decals - finish matte. Use a good clip whip and a juicy 12v battery with Estes igniters or fancy Quest igniters that are much better.

 

[SteveA]

The balsa is very thin, I mean very thin(at least on the one I built). It was suggested to cover the fins in CA, bit I found it had a tendency to warp them. If I could do it again, I'd dump the supplied balsa and use a thicker stock, or maybe even basswood.

Second, the mylar chutes are just not worth it. They tangle too easily and it's just a mess. I'd suggest replacing it with a nice nylon chute, there are plenty of vendors who supply them. And reinforcing the attachment or even incorporating a nice basswood CR for that would be a good idea.

Nice build so far....

I never really noticed if the balsa seemed that thin or not. I'll take a look at it tonight and see if they are. I was in fact thinking of replacing the Mylar with X-chutes from Top Flight. I had good luck with the last set I bought for the Richter Recker.

Build it light according to the instructions and she will be a super flyer on a three engine cluster.

The only modifications I would make is to set it up with longer engine hooks and motor mounts for the future Estes E12 motors but with spacers to fly it for now on three D12's.

Oh man, I wish I would have known this ahead of time. I will build it light though. What would you consider light? Use minimum glue? Stick to CA? Lighter fillets? All of the above?

Experiment with the balsa and fins. I've used CA and plastic sheeting (like the kit bag) to sandwich them between flats and weight them down while the CA kicks. Yes it messy and you have to quick. Or you can paper them...Good call on thrust rings.

I'll probably paper them. I've had luck with that in the past and to sandwich them with CA and plastic, for me, is a recipe for disaster. I seldom have luck with CA and it usually ends in a mess and me frustrated. I am CA inept I guess. It's why I hate resin and photo etched brass with scale models. Even though it makes them look better. And thanks about the thrust rings. Yeah, I feel better with them in there.

Thank you for the advice and heads-up guys. I appreciate it and will make good use of it. Again, thanks for the kind words. Oh and Sandman, thanks for the suggestion about the band saw. I do know someone who has one and it does sound a lot better than all that sanding!

 

[Stymye]

sounds like it couldn't hurt to put a coupler ahead of the MMT to help with crimping.I've noticed my executioner is prone to that as well.(bigger chute- too much drift... regular chute-- weakening of BT above fins).

look forward to the build , It's an impressive rocket !

 

[SteveA]

Use an angled blast deflector to avoid back end burn. fancy Quest igniters that are much better.

HA! I was thinking about this last night! The motors are really recessed and I was wondering how much burn would take place on the body tube because of it. I was thinking of using self adhesive foil but wondered how much weight it would add. I think the angled deflector would be a much easier solution. What about the inside of the tube? You have any burn there? I do use Q2G2s. Love 'em. I was able to ignite 3 E9-6s with them (two successful and consecutive flights) and an Estes E controller last summer!

 

[Daddyisabar]

HA! I was thinking about this last night! The motors are really recessed and I was wondering how much burn would take place on the body tube because of it. I was thinking of using self adhesive foil but wondered how much weight it would add. I think the angled deflector would be a much easier solution. What about the inside of the tube? You have any burn there? I do use Q2G2s. Love 'em. I was able to ignite 3 E9-6s with them (two successful and consecutive flights) and an Estes E controller last summer!

If I would just practice what I preach! When I get up to the pad I am just too darn lazy to angle the blast deflector on the club rack, so I just let her fly. I coat the inside of the aft tube with Titebond anyway, but when I get her back it is all black, smelly and sooty, with the first layer of tube paper burned and separated in spots - especially near the motors and at the end of the tube. :y: Time for a Super Nanny melt down and lots of complaining about TLP thin walled tubes - but that is just a show for TLP haters.

Back home I scrape off the burned paper and give it another gooey, smelly coat of Titebond and fly again and again, each time with constant and annoying complaints of back end cluster burn, but that is the fun of it all. I think the Perseus II is up to 11 cluster flights now with no beer can hind end and no real damage. I even show off the black powder burns now like a Red Badge of Courage.

Read the other TLP build threads on the forum for the beer can reinforcement method the Pros use. Otherwise you must make the supreme effort of angling the deflector or be stuck with lots of low class, gooey and smelly, 30 second repair jobs.

 

[kelltym88]

Read the other TLP build threads on the forum for the beer can reinforcement method the Pros use. Otherwise you must make the supreme effort of angling the deflector or be stuck with lots of low class, gooey and smelly, 30 second repair jobs.

I'm assuming the "beer can" reinforcement is in reference to cutting a beer can, or any aluminum can for that matter, and epoxying it into the bottom. I did that, and it does work.

I'm trying to get another one of these kits and my plans are to make it with an interchangeable MMT so I can put a 29mm AP motor in it.

 

[SteveA]

Otherwise you must make the supreme effort of angling the deflector or be stuck with lots of low class, gooey and smelly, 30 second repair jobs.

oint: Well, I can do low class too. It's all about the flying for me. I don't care if it's pretty. :wink:

 

[Daddyisabar]

I'm assuming the "beer can" reinforcement is in reference to cutting a beer can, or any aluminum can for that matter, and epoxying it into the bottom. I did that, and it does work.

I'm trying to get another one of these kits and my plans are to make it with an interchangeable MMT so I can put a 29mm AP motor in it.

Yep, someday I will be a Pro TLP flier and like the Sargent mechanic on Ba Ba Black Sheep, I will someday be able to chew on my cigar and say that I keep these birds flyin' with nothin' but bubble gum and beer cans!

The haters are always tell me to ditch the silly low power clusters and put a real motor in there, and to ditch or reinforce all the crappy low power tubes and parts that come with the kit. In fact, they tell me to ditch the entire kit and scratch build a real mid power equivalent. But that is too darn much work and way too manly for me. I guess I will stay with the good results I get building stock and using cheap, girly man motors from Hobby Lobby.

 

[Daddyisabar]

sounds like it couldn't hurt to put a coupler ahead of the MMT to help with crimping.I've noticed my executioner is prone to that as well.(bigger chute- too much drift... regular chute-- weakening of BT above fins).

look forward to the build , It's an impressive rocket !

Finally, a good use for all those thin stock TLP couplers I should ditch! Even stronger than a CA soak with out much more weight and a whole lot less stink!

 

[Daddyisabar]

Good call on thrust rings. For rockets that lasts a long time it's the hook moving forward (as the ejection charges take their toll on the tubes) that I have found to be a problem. The thrust rings solve that.

Listen to sandman light makes flight.

Darn, my problem has not been the hooks moving forward from the awesome thrust of my girly man motors, but it has been the ripping backwards from the too tightly packed recovery components when the manly, shotgun ejection charges go off on MIGHTY Estes D-12's. Some TLP kits have the high end manilla folder cut outs for this, but a little CA reinforcement at the slice to the stock tube is useful as well. Golly, I wish there had been more build threads when I built my kits. Its a hard knock life for me . . . and my T-L-P!:marshmallow:

 

[Daddyisabar]

oint: Well, I can do low class too. It's all about the flying for me. I don't care if it's pretty. :wink:

That attitude will greatly reduce your stress level, build times, expense and effort. However, that lax attitude is not to be shown in these awesome, good techniques, best practices, super dedicated to perfection build threads. Only the best here, shortcuts and cover ups for achieving the best possible results with minimal effort is best left to those only seeking mediocrity.

 

[SteveA]

That attitude will greatly reduce your stress level, build times, expense and effort. However, that lax attitude is not to be shown in these awesome, good techniques, best practices, super dedicated to perfection build threads. Only the best here, shortcuts and cover ups for achieving the best possible results with minimal effort is best left to those only seeking mediocrity.

Well, I'm not going to take any short cuts mind you, I do want the damn thing to get off the pad with all its parts and not kill anyone in the process...including me. Well, except for that bull snake I stepped on last summer. It could kill him just out of spite.

 

[gdjsky01]

I am pretty sure if you just use a stand off like a clothes pin or oddl rockets Raise you won't get a ton of scorching. It just takes two inches or so. That seems to be how my Osiris MPM has survived this long. Good advice about another coupler up by the MMT forward end. If its tight enough you don't even have to glue it in.

 

[NJRick]

this is a great thread!!!..the Nike Ajax is one of the coolest looking rockets ever...maybe only surpassed by the Nike Hercules...I grew up outside of Philadelphia, Pa and about 5 miles from my house there was an old Nike Ajax base...they closed it and put in a park...but the underground storage silos are still there.

 

[SteveA]

The Interstage Continued

While constructing the interstage there were a couple of things to note. The smaller centering rings required shimming to achieve a tight fit on the 1 inch tube and required a little sanding of the outside edge to fit into the upper stage body tube. The larger centering rings for the booster also required shimming to fit the 1 inch tube and will also require shimming for a snug fit of the booster tube. The small ring which sets inside of the paper transition, according to the instructions, was to sit "just inside" of the transition and it was my experience, that it set a little deeper into the transition than the diagram seemed to indicate. I'm not sure what difference this made or makes, but the ring did not make contact with the walls of the transition until it reached this depth.

The completed transition dry-fitted in the booster tube. Note recess of ring in transition.

The dry-fitted assembly with the addition of the outer rings

The dry-fitted assembly with the booster and sustainer connected

Now the real work begins. I checked last night on my example in regards to the balsa for the fins and found that they are indeed not very rigid and will be papering them to add some rigidity. I will also take the advice given here, to have the shape of the wiring tunnels cut on a band saw.

In review, this step was not difficult and just required time and patience. Dry fitting has been the key to recognizing potential issues and has saved me a lot of grief. Now, I just need to learn to glue it, position it, stop frickin' fiddling with it, and just find something else to do.

Thanks for your time, advice, and comments
Steve

 

[kelltym88]

The Interstage Continued

Now, I just need to learn to glue it, position it, stop frickin' fiddling with it, and just find something else to do.

Steve

Ummm...start working on another kit....

 

[Stymye]

This is where I fill spirals ,sand, paper fins , prime, sand . ect....prep and fill the fiddly bits.... before all the fiddly bits go on .

but of course that's optional stuff.

 

[SteveA]

Ummm...start working on another kit....

This is where I fill spirals ,sand, paper fins , prime, sand . ect....prep and fill the fiddly bits.... before all the fiddly bits go on .

And I do. But I seem to have this innate need to stop what I am doing, stare at it until I apparently find something to adjust on it. (real or, in most cases, imagined) It's one of my annoying idiosyncrasies.:bangpan:

 

[sodmeister]

This is going to be a nice build to follow ,as i have one in the stash ,but have yet to get it started.

Yessir ,going to be a real beauty Steve !



Paul T

 

[SteveA]

This is going to be a nice build to follow ,as i have one in the stash ,but have yet to get it started.

Yessir ,going to be a real beauty Steve !



Paul T

Thanks Paul!

 

[bradycros]

And I do. But I seem to have this innate need to stop what I am doing, stare at it until I apparently find something to adjust on it. (real or, in most cases, imagined) It's one of my annoying idiosyncrasies.:bangpan:

I've found if I step away from the construction for a day or two, I'll come up with a way to make the rocket better looking or stronger.

Your doing fine on your Ajax. Flag looks good too!

 

[Astro-Baby]

Yup me too....but pausing a lot and taking your time makes for enjoyment and genuinie joy makes for perfection.

 

[SteveA]

Wood working

I spent the majority of Saturday cutting-out and preparing the fins for the Ajax. In regards to the major fin assemblies, TLP supplies templates in which to trace and then cut fins. The smaller assemblies such as the braces for the interstage and the antenna bases are diagrams with measurements in which you draw out the basic shape and then cut from the balsa stock. As the mantra goes, read the instructions carefully, measure twice and cut once. I failed to take my own advice. While cutting out two of the interstage braces I noticed that they seemed too short. It wasn't until I picked up the instructions again, that I realized that I had missed a measurement. Like I said, read carefully. The only other issue I ran across was some of the balsa stock was "crumbly". There were places on the sheet that I just could not get a nice- clean- edge. Luckily I had some extra balsa sheet laying around that I could use as replacement. After I applied a coat of sanding sealer I went ahead and began filling the seams in the body tube. At this point, all that remains to do is the wiring tunnels and I will be ready for final assembly. I plan to take the advice of others here who suggested cutting the bevel into the wiring tunnel using a band saw. I believe that to be very sound advice. Just for the heck of it I began sanding on one of the beams for a tunnel and concluded that, yeah, that's a lot of sanding.:wink:
Thus far, I have been very pleased with this build. I would be a liar if I were to say there that there was not a few pucker moments but overall, it has not been a difficult build but a sort of rewarding one.​

 

[sandman]

Steve, and everyone else.

Here is the fin and interstage bracket alignment guide.

The fin alignment is confusing.

View attachment tlp fin alignment.pdf

 

[SteveA]

Ah ha! Okay, that's what I thought.

Thanks Gordy!