The Shadow and Flame

[edwardw]

Neil,

In response to the flycutter - I have two of them - one from 7/8 to 4" and one from 1 7/8 to 8".
I really like them. I have one set for outside rings and one for inside rings... I love them. I spent one day making rings for all the popular tubing sizes. Now I can just put a ring on the drill bit and adjust it to the size. I cut a test one and 99% of the time it's good, once in a while I have to adjust.


Edward

 

[rocketkid88]

IMHO, there isn't realy any reason to bother cutting all those CRs! i would just shape the foam with a drill/sandpaper and then glass it (dur!). Once its glassed the CRs would be just extra weight. You may want to have one CR at the base of the NC, to make it stronger and protect it from ejection gasses, but other than that i don't see any need for them.
There are plenty of threads on making foam NCs, their not that hard. good luck tho!

 

[Ryan S.]

I would take one length of tube cut it lengthwise and then push it back together and glass it that way to form a tube coupler. then put the foam over this and cut it down to form a nosecone, then glass the foam. This way you have a strong shoulder.

 

[Neil]

Well, this design needs a half a pound of nose weight already... A little extra weight might not hurt it.

I dont have a variable speed drill (I have heard that I need one), and I dont have anything to hold it once its going (I assume you need a jig made for such a thing for this to work properly... )

I have plenty of leftover wood from my dad's fins, i think ill just take a crack at it this way. Whats there to lose? I think on this one I just have to do it my own way, possibly screw up, and learn. If I screw up, Ill proabably learn not to try to do things my own way if you guys say my own way isnt as good as your way... Something I might need to learn sooner or later.... It also *SOUNDS* easier to me... It might not be, but knowing my skill with this kind of thing... I want it to be as easy as possible, even if it adds a pound to my rocket.

 

[rocketkid88]

Well, man, its up to you... but... well, it dosn't sound easy to me
I don't really know tho. i've only made NCs up to 2" in dia, but still 4" isn't that large. how long is it? (you proly said... i can remember). the 2" one that i made i just stuck in a drill, it dosn't have to be variable speed really, and held it in one hand and a sandpaper block in the other; spin spin spin, sand sand sand, and lotsa dust latter and it turned out alright. granted, if you have a jig or something it may be better, but this was ok.
i duno what all you have available, so do as you wish and hope for the best!

 

[daveyfire]

Get VCP to print out a nose cone shadow template, then use those to guide your sanding stick/block/whatever for proper shaping. Then use VCP to print out nose cone lamination pieces and go at it with the glass. Handy tool that VCP. Also makes really neat looking drawings of your rocket (scientific-y blueprint-y et al.).

Available for free from MissileWorks here

 

[Neil]

Sounds easier to me because I can just use the different CRs to shape the cone... Im not that good at shaping things... I suppose I could do it if I tried, but I would rather not... It will be 29" long including the shoulder... A little bigger than your Howlin Sam cone... I think I would definetly need soem kind of jig... Or someone else to hold it. I know the cone is a little long, but I like em that way!


Oh, and I am writing this from our just-repaired computer!!!!! Its finnaly better! It has a brand-new hard drive, and thats about it. I lost ALL my rsim files (no biggie cause I can download em off here! ), and goodness knows what else... its nice to have the computer up and running again, though! I can finnaly stop fighting with my sister over who's turn it is to use the computer!


Rsim can print out nose shapes... I just have to re-install it.... :kill:

 

[daveyfire]

Yeah, but in my experience RockSim prints em out shaded gray... VCP goes with white and an outline so you don't waste your printer ink/toner.

Perhaps this has changed since then, I don't know.

 

[Neil]

Actually, my rsim prints em out just with the outline. THough untill I get my printer hooked up to this computer, I cant print ANYTHING out, be it Rsim, VCP or Spacecad.

 

[Neil]

I got all the foam cut out, and all the CRs cut out, so I started on the cone. I got about half done, and then the CA I used to tack em toghether came off.... So the epoxy is drying now... ILl be able to finish it in 10 minutes.

Heres a pic!

 

[wwattles]

Funny... that nose cone looks exactly like something I saw at the store the other day (and bought)... a 2-stage long funnel for oil! Got it at the auto parts store... about the same size, too, and made of nice strong plastic...

WW

 

[Neil]

Really? hm... Would it work as a nose cone? (could I have saved myself a lot of trouble by buying one of those? Groan...)

 

[Neil]

Well, I finished shaping the cone... So I take a look at it... Looks nice... Oh, crud! I entirely forgot an entire 2" section of foam!!!!!!!!! So I guess I am just going to have to fix it as best I can, because I sure dont want to try to make another one!!!


Other than that, its looking good.

 

[DPatell]

I just came back to this thread...and I found something a little out of whack...this weighs 15 pounds? That seems a little steep to me. My Magnum clone weighs 12 pounds, and is over 8' tall and 5.5" diamter, 1/8" thick packaging tubes with a layer of glass, 1/4" ply everywhere, and a 3" motor mount with 5 1/4" CR's. Where is all the weight in that thing?

Keep working on it, will it be ready for LDRS? Can I suggest a K motor for that?

 

[daveyfire]

Ditto what Dan said... 15 lbs?! My Arcas, fully loaded for bear without a motor, weighs 10 lbs. That's a 4" x 8 ft rocket, with 0.125" G10 fins to a phenolic 3" motor mount, four 1/2" centering rings, two wraps of 6 oz. fiberglass, 50 ft of tubular nylon, a Rocketman R3C and R9C, two altimeters on a 0.125" G10 board, a 75mm --> 54mm adapter, and other fun stuff. 15 lbs seems a little heavy, considering that the vehicle isn't even done yet... you'll need a minimum of a J motor to get 15 lbs off the pad!

 

[rocwizard]

How is it that heavy with not even the tubing glassed?

 

[Neil]

Its a mailing tube... They are heavy. And I dont know how accurate the scale is... (I was just using our bathroom scale for an estimate) I have no idea how heavy it really is/will be. Im just guessing 15#. The fincan alone is about 5#. I dont know how heavy the rest of it will be...

 

[Ryan S.]

I would guess maybe 7; 10 at max, where did you pull 15 from, I doubt that booster weighs 5 lbs by the way. Did you see Dan's post, his is super huge mailing tube and it doesnt weigh that much

 

[DPatell]

My booster weighs 5.75#. As I said before, (5) 0.25" CR's, a 36"x3" motor tube, (3) 1/4" fins, the 1/8" thick 5.5"x30" booster, a coupler made of the same tubing, and a TON of USComposites Resin and lots of milled glass, EVERYWHERE. It's definately robust, built to handle possibly an M in the future.

With that being said, your rocket is heavier, and has a smaller motor mount. Kind of a double negative. Anyone know of a Jenny Craig for rockets?

I know a thing or two about overbuilding, I had a Red Max clone with 3/16" ply fins. I also have a fat boy tipping the scales at a pound, but that is nullified by the 38mm hole in the tail.

If it is indeed true, I suggest buying a scale specifically for rockets so you can budget weight as you go. Weight really limits what you can fly.

 

[Ryan S.]

Originally posted by DPatell
It's definately robust, built to handle possibly an M in the future.

I bet 10 large that the 3500 shreds it before it hits 1000 feet.

How long do you think the SH will last on the 1400?

just giving you a hard time man...


I agree with what Dan says, build on the light side if possible, gives you more vareity

 

[Neil]

I cant find any postal scales or anything like them that go over 3 pounds... ten pounds proabably would be a better estimate.

I was just guessing....

 

[Neil]

Well, I just about finished it. It needs one or two more coats of black paint, and then a nosecone... My first nosecone attemt is way to heavy... Mostly epoxy, with a bit of other foam and stuff for fillers. I am going to try again, this time with ONLY expanding foam and glass....


But I did get the vent holes drilled, the altimeter set up, the switch installed, and the coupler screwed in. So I made a lot of progress, but I still have one problem... The nosecone. If my second attemt fails, its gonna be a problem... One of my dad's co-workers has a brother with several lathes... I think he uses them to make bowls or something... He wants to try to turn a nosecone for his L2 project, and, if it works, I might try my hand at it... But I bet I can get it right this time... I made several mistakes on the first one (too much epoxy, and once the tip fell off, making epoxy go all over the garage floor... And I also glued it into a tube I was using to hold it off the ground... With US composites epoxy, which is nearly indestructable, as I found out. It also glued the tube to the floor. I had to use the blunt side of an axe to knock it off the floor... ), but I have learned from them... Ill try again soon, and maybe it will work.

Then again, maybe it wont...

 

[BlueNinja]

Originally posted by Neil
Well, I just about finished it.

Any pics???

 

[JoJo]

*begins chanting* WE WANT PICS!!!
WE WANT PICS !!!!! lol

 

[Neil]

They are on my dad's laptop... I will be having him email them to our computer soon, then I can post them, along with about a hundred near-perfect pictures from LDRS (narrowed down from somewhere near 750 pictures that I tood ).

I can tell you that it needs one more coat of paint on the upper section, then it will be done, aside from the nose cone, which I am working on.... (really. ) It looks VERY pretty standing here right next to me....