Tethys tips?

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I dance around like a madman.


I got the Tethys in the mail today, whoa, this is cooler than I thought. I just HAD to testfit everything, and joepolicy was right about the nose ridges. The first goes in the tube fine, however the second won't go in. Dremel time. Never seen fiberglass fins before, heavier than I expected and thicker than I was thinking... Wow, perfect finish surface for the fins and tube. Decals, I was expecting more than a PML logo. Do they sell a tethys decal sheet with more to add?


A very happy and somewhat hyper,


B N150
 
Nope, the tethys i have only had the PML logo. The Intruder came with lots o' decals though. Yeah, If remember right, the nose ridges were almost completely sanded smooth. My bet is they are made to be a tight fit in phenolic, and that's why they don't fit.. That's just a guess though...
Good luck building! It flys nice on I284's....:)

Justin Horne pointed out that the slim-line would not fit on the 38-29mm adaptor I have, though :/. It originally sounded like he was saying it would fit because the adaptor doesn't stick out the end, but it turns out he just meant that the part that does stick out is too wide for the Slim-line.

Yep, that's it...:D If you have the adapter, you'll see the trust ring on it has the exact same OD as the 38 MM tube it's going into. It also has no 29MM tube sticking out the end. This means that it (may or may not, I'm not sure) fit into the 38 mm tube with a slim-line on. However, the slim-line will only retain the adapter, not the motor... I've got a 54 MM aeropack with a 54-38 adapter, and it works great. Great design, great usability, just great....:)

I wish i could think of a way to get the 38 slimline to retain the 29mm... Sorry.
 
NO NO WAIT,
Don't take a dremel to that nosecone.
The rings sand really easy by hand and it wouldn't be hard to get the fit too loose.
Motor tube length?
I know you were talking about standard adaptors but if anyone is using the PML KS adaptors then length does matter as you will never fit a motor past the forward end of that motor mount.
 
They are 14.5" long.

The KS 38mm adapter will let you use a 38/720 AT motor and smaller. It will fit a 4 Grain Pro38 and smaller. The 5 grain Pro38 is a wee bit too long to fit in the KS adapter. I've heard of some reaming out the ID of the urethane thread adapter to fit the 5 grain. I want to use the 5 grain Pro38 baby J for my L2 cert and I have a Tethys. Rather than hacking up the adapter, I got the PML 38/54 Heavy Duty adapter to use this motor. With that adapter - you can also use the Pro38 6 grain motors and the 38/1080 AT motor case.
(That will really send your Tethys flying high!!!!)
Good Luck
 
I have the Endeavor with the Extended KS. they are ,I believe, 17".
If you plan on flying any motors longer than about 12" you will need longer tubes to replace the ones in the kit.
And you should use PML tubes so the CRs and KS hardware fit properly (PML motor tubes are a bit fatter than most others)
 
Originally posted by Gregzo
They are 14.5" long.

The KS 38mm adapter will let you use a 38/720 AT motor and smaller. It will fit a 4 Grain Pro38 and smaller. The 5 grain Pro38 is a wee bit too long to fit in the KS adapter. I've heard of some reaming out the ID of the urethane thread adapter to fit the 5 grain. I want to use the 5 grain Pro38 baby J for my L2 cert and I have a Tethys. Rather than hacking up the adapter, I got the PML 38/54 Heavy Duty adapter to use this motor. With that adapter - you can also use the Pro38 6 grain motors and the 38/1080 AT motor case.
(That will really send your Tethys flying high!!!!)
Good Luck


Hmm- so you get an adapter, place that in the 54mm tube, the KS urethane kinda acts as a thrust ring, then the motor goes in that and it clears the end of the 54mm tube?
 
Uh, kinda. The way it works is you epoxy in a urathane piece in the 54 'mothertube,' as PML calls it. This has threads inside the piece, so they are in the 54. Then on the 29 and 38 mm tubes, you glue the opposite piece. This has threads on the outside of the piece that screw into the one in the 54. Then the appropriate centering rings on the aft ends to center in the 54, and you are done. Nice system, really.
 
But the adaptors on the 38 and 29 do have an overlap on the inside of each tube (kind of a pocket)
I suppose you could ream out that overlap but that would weaken the connector and that holds all of the thrust of the motors.
I can see a valid point in using a standard adaptor inside the 54 using the urethane KS piece as a thrust ring for longer motors. Baybe even a larger aft ring that fits over the 54?
 
Sorry, I was talking about the adapter that was mentioned to use the longer 38mm motors :)
 
I suppose you could get rid of that, because yes, there is a pocket, but not too big, and it would weaken it... I think you just nee to b sure to put extra epoxy on the urathane on the 54mm. This is the piece that is being pushed up OFF the tube, not down, like on the 38/29's. This piece has the full thrust of the motor against it.PML says that the J750 doesn't fit, but even if id did, not to use it, because the thrust is too great for the urathane.

The PML system is nice, and the aeropack adapter is nice. IT's whatever you like more, pretty much.
Here's the info about the aeropack adapter, if you haven't seen it. https://www.aeropack.net/motor_adapters.html
 
Don't forget about Dr. Rocket's Expansion Closures! Instant adapter built into the motor case! :):)

motorexpd.jpg

They're only a little expensive, though!

Jason
 
COOL! I don't bet they'd have to be certed, would they? I mean, it's the same closure, just more metal, right?
 
Ok, the kit comes with some big launch lugs, but even that width (1/4"?) I wouldn't feel comfortable launching it from a rod.... My rule: Over 5 feet, midpower or more, it gets railbuttons AND launchlugs. I might order some PML rail lugs, they either can be screwed on or epoxied on, I might go with a removable screw mount. Only problem with screw mount is the piston, I have some good clearance right now for the motor section, i may even extend my KS and that would give me more room... What do you all think?

Alllssssoooo...

I think doing tip to tip glassing on this rocket, nothing else except maybe internal glassing. reading the QT stressing thread and the John Coker website, I don't think the main part of the tube needs glassing, just the parts that are adhered to it. Isn't CF lighter than regular glass? I might buy some CF tape, about the same price as TK.


B N150
 
Just a thought and I may be way off but here goes.
Rail buttons or launch lugs typically are placed 1 aft as far as possible and one at or near your center of gravity.
If you plan on extending your KS you may find your forward button will be somewhere near your forward CR. So there should be no issue with interference with your piston.
 
Originally posted by missileman
Just a thought and I may be way off but here goes.
Rail buttons or launch lugs typically are placed 1 aft as far as possible and one at or near your center of gravity.
If you plan on extending your KS you may find your forward button will be somewhere near your forward CR. So there should be no issue with interference with your piston.

Yea... I may not extend it after all, the piston is 3" long, that leaves me i think 26.5" for chute space... I may not need even that much butthat would leave less room for other stuff that I might want to stuff in there. I'll think about it for awhile, though I've been thinking about this since last night for other reasons (54/1706). This is just another one.
 
Originally posted by Blue_Ninja_150
... My rule: Over 5 feet, midpower or more, it gets railbuttons AND launchlugs ...
The lugs are 3/8 and there's no problem with them. I don't know why anyone would put both lugs and buttons on the same rocket. Furthermore, you won't by flying this rocket at the park, only at organized launches with proper equipment and waivers. There will always be the proper rail OR rod. You don't need both.
... I think doing tip to tip glassing on this rocket, nothing else except maybe internal glassing. reading the QT stressing thread and the John Coker website
You were talking earlier in this thread about flying this rocket on G motors. If you keep adding stuff you won't be able to even fly it on H motors. I really think you are over thinking this build and headed toward trying to launch an anvil.

It has been said many times before but I'll say it again; there is no point in glassing QT and G-10 rockets. The resin does not penetrate the G-10 and QT material like it does cardboard or wood and you're really just encasing the QT and G-10 and adding lots of weight with little structural benefit. I also shudder to think of how a fiberglassed QT and G-10 rocket would wind-up after taking it out in the Kansas winter. The whole thing is liable to delaminate away completely from the substrates. If you properly sand all mating surfaces and use quality epoxy, that will be plenty strong enough. Internal glassing on this size rocket is too hard. Expanding foam will take 1/10th the time, 1/10th the mess, equivalent weight, and more strength than internal glassing.

The past posts on motor adapters and motor retention have gone way off track. I can show you the ultimate way to retain motors with the PML Kwik-Switch system. You need 3 t-nuts and matching screws, 3 clips, and either or both 29mm and 38mm slimline or similar retainer.
...would leave less room for other stuff that I might want to stuff in there ... I've been thinking about this since last night for other reasons (54/1706).
I believe I read that this is your first HPR build. If this is right, why not A) think about building the thing close to stock so you can see how really good the kit is and how great it flies, and B) relax a little. There's no reason to rush it. In 1 week you'll be at Argonia and be able to see probably a dozen Tethys' and how they're built, stock and otherwise. You can't learn about building rockets from exchanging e-mails and digital photos. You have to hold them, point at them, and ask questions that demand an explanation and a story. I think you'll be amazed at what you'll learn.

Sorry to lecture, but it's time for a reality check.

--Lance.
 
Yeah, I guess i was getting a bit too high power there... I'm just kinda excited about this. I've got a 29/38mm retainer, don't see any need in buying 2 slimlines while my retainer will do the same thing, though I would be happy to learn about any other possible means of retention. About internal glassing, you're right again. also with internal reinforcement: PML has their 2 part foam in smll bottles, US composites has theirs in what appear to be metal jugs for $2 more, anyone have experience with the USC stuff?

No problem on the lecture, always good to get advice. I needed it.

Blue
 
I do have to agree with Lance.
I have 5 PML rockets in my stable.
All with QT tubing, all built stock with the only exception being foamed fincan on a bullpup (this only because the fins are inside a boattail and hard to reinforce)
They all fly great and one (Callisto) withstood a high speed deployment (under thrust still) to fly again the same day.
IMHO the QT rockets are tanks already and really don't need any additional reinforcement.
Good luck with your build and have fun flying.
 
After looking at Lance's rocket, I decided to build this DD CAPABLE. not necessarily DD right now. I might go with same end DD (harder to do, lighter, more complex) or just split the darn thing (somewhat easier, heavier, and preferred). Now I just need epoxy and foam.
 
so does anyone have tips for modifying this for dual deployment? I've seen one good design, would like to compare. Also I would like the rocket to be able to be flown with motor ejection.


Lance, how far above the fins did you make your aft-most cut? Also, if I do this, what is the best way to cut QT? I have access to a table saw (dont know what exactly what it's called, but it has a table with a rotary saw blade sticking out) and another similar saw that can be swiveled up. Don't know much about power tools :eek:
 
The saw that swivles up, is it a mitre saw?
If it is that is what I cut all my BTs with.
 
Heck I don't know, it's my friend's. It's got a laser on it tho. Wait, I think it is a miter saw.
 
A miter saw (a.k.a chop saw) with a good sharp blade works really well if it is a good quality saw and a 90 degree cut is exactly 90 degrees (some aren't too exact or are misaligned). I use mine a lot for cutting body tubes up to 4" and motor liners.

As far as length, it depends upon whether or not you go with the standard Kwik-Switch or extended. Mine Tethys is standard, the Endeavor is extended. Are you using standard length?

I'll measure it when I get home and post.

--Lance.
 
My method to make my Tethys dual deploy was to add a PML 18" payload bay. Build the electronics bay into the coupler. Use motor ejection for drogue. The altimeter in the coupler deploys the main.
If you want to run it short, take out the payload bay and you have a standard, motor eject Tethys. Put the payload bay back in and you have a stretched dual deploy Tethys. Want to run it stretched and motor eject only?? Screw the nose into the payload bay and leave everything out of the payload bay with main only in the motor eject comparment.
You go from a standard Tethys to one with three different configurations for only the cost of an 18" payload bay.
So I say don't go cutting it up - just add the bay and you're done.
Good Luck
 
Well, I think this method is a bit cheaper (sure, lots of assorted parts but the PML bays are outrageous IMHO. WHat I was thinking of could also be 3 configs. and might be a little heavier... Though weight isn't really a problem, I don't plan on flying it on G's unless it comes out REAL light stock length and config.


Lance, I am going standard.
 
Just to prove the point - my modified Dual Deploy Tethys as described earned me my TRA L2 this past weekend.
Pro38 5 grain J285 set for 10 second delay to deploy an 18" PML drogue at apogee.
Transolve P6K used for main @ 600 feet in the 18" PML Quantum payload section.
Reported altitude was 2,700 feet.

Good Luck with yours in however you decide to build it.
 
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