Student rocket to 100k ft

[Delta V]

Hello,

This is a "repost" of sorts from the Junior/Leader only NAR forum about a project I proposed. The idea is that Junior and Leader members lead their own subsystem of choice on a 2 stage 4" booster 3" sustainer rocket that would be launched to 100k+ ft. My idea behind this was to give junior and leader members and opportunity to learn how to design rocket components that go to the edge of space and back. This is also a way for Junior/Leader NAR members to get a better understanding of propulsion, something that is very important to me as it is literally what I want to do, and my current job as well. There‘s been a lot of coordination in the orignal post about how to do this, and we‘ve decided to try and start off designing smaller rockets at first, and building up to the 100k. (As if that wasn’t obvious) Lmk your thoughts.

 

[David Schwantz]

https://rkt.aem.umn.edu/

 

[cerving]

I was out at FAR when UMN did a test flight last year, and although they didn't achieve their goals at that time it was clear that they were very well versed in what they were doing. A project like that requires a lot of time and some serious planning... rockets behave a lot differently at 100K (or even 45K, their highest to-date) than they do a 5K or 10K. If your primary goal is propulsion, you can do a build and static test and achieve your goal... flying is a whole different animal. Successful recovery from 100K can be very difficult... there are a lot of things that can go wrong.

 

[David Schwantz]

They fly at our home field every month. They are very well versed on rocket flight. Also it is great to have the big young guys helps us old guys drag stuff out

 

[Sooner Boomer]

100K feet (~193 miles) is a non-trivial task. I seriously doubt it could be done with the constraints you've listed. Research sounding rockets, and see what the govt/commercial users have. See if you can find a copy of the November 1997 High Power Rocketry magazine. In it, they describe a boosted dart project that goes to about 50 miles.

 

[Titan II]

100K feet (~193 miles) is a non-trivial task.

Check your math.

 

[David Schwantz]

No sh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!t

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Check your math.

Freakin' trackpad on the computer is a piece of junk. I "clicked in" in 5280, and only 520 got entered. *sigh* Sorry 'bout that.

 

[David Schwantz]

Damn glad I don't use that for BP charges!

 

[Delta V]

https://rkt.aem.umn.edu/

I know college teams exist, but we’re more pushing for the people building these rockets to be high school or maybe even middle school students, and the idea of this was to be collaborative, How is working with nearby universities going to work when people are spread across the globe? Plus, I live in Maine. Name one university in Maine with a rocketry program

 

[Delta V]

I was out at FAR when UMN did a test flight last year, and although they didn't achieve their goals at that time it was clear that they were very well versed in what they were doing. A project like that requires a lot of time and some serious planning... rockets behave a lot differently at 100K (or even 45K, their highest to-date) than they do a 5K or 10K. If your primary goal is propulsion, you can do a build and static test and achieve your goal... flying is a whole different animal. Successful recovery from 100K can be very difficult... there are a lot of things that can go wrong.

We know this, and we don’t expect this to be a short endeavor, after all you learn the best from failures... and I bet we’ll build around 10 rockets before the 100k

 

[David Schwantz]

My point was the young men and women at the U of M are happy to help anyone, regardless of their age. Just thought they might have been able to help point you in the right direction.
Sorry you were offended.

 

[Delta V]

My point was the young men and women at the U of M are happy to help anyone, regardless of their age. Just thought they might have been able to help point you in the right direction.
Sorry you were offended.

Oh sorry, I didn’t really get what you were saying there. Sorry for sounding offended, didn’t mean that! Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[cls]

... Best to pick achievable goals.

TRF has several recent threads about obnoxiously difficult goals, for students. Like, fly an 8 pound payload to 30kft, design and build liquid engines, etc.

Having done it, I know a 100kft project is very difficult. Even for a team of experienced L3s.

Heck, for rocketry newbies, stuff like NARTREK and TARC are serious challenges. SLI is doable for Jr and Sr college people, with a good level of support from faculty and NAR L2+ mentors.

Can someone post about Spaceport America, level of challenge and rate of success ?

 

[David Schwantz]

The link to U of M has their Spaceport flights.

 

[Delta V]

... Best to pick achievable goals.

TRF has several recent threads about obnoxiously difficult goals, for students. Like, fly an 8 pound payload to 30kft, design and build liquid engines, etc.

Having done it, I know a 100kft project is very difficult. Even for a team of experienced L3s.

Heck, for rocketry newbies, stuff like NARTREK and TARC are serious challenges. SLI is doable for Jr and Sr college people, with a good level of support from faculty and NAR L2+ mentors.

Can someone post about Spaceport America, level of challenge and rate of success ?

I understand this is hard, but achievable, and I’m not setting requirements for this (payload, propulsion, etc), so there’s no “novel” technologies so to say. as novel as flying to 100k ft is, there’s no new stuff besides propellant we need to develop, and we could probably just use a preexisting one instead!

Having done it, I know a 100kft project is very difficult. Even for a team of experienced L3s.

Very cool! I’d love to hear about that. But yes, it is incredibly difficult, and we’d love to have experienced mentors for this like you!

 

[G_T]

I think you'd be better in many ways tackling a less ambitious project.

Gerald

 

[cls]

there’s no new stuff besides propellant we need to develop, and we could probably just use a preexisting one instead!

yes, commercial reloads will do it, no need to fall down the propellant design rat-hole

I’d love to hear about that. But yes, it is incredibly difficult, and we’d love to have experienced mentors for this like you!

thanks, there's waaaay too much to say about it here. or on the phone. we could talk for several days...

regardless, in this thread you have multiple posts from experienced mentors saying "choose a realistic goal instead".