Skidmarks and glow sticks

[noffie79]

Is there any law concerning launching at night with glow sticks attached to my MPR and a Skidmark?

 

[DizWolf]

Yes. and it's fairly subject to interpretation. I'll skip that part for now.


Without a waiver, you're limited to 3.3 pounds and 4.4 ounces of propellant.

 

[noffie79]

Well then, my 20oz Leviathan and my G80 Skidmark should be just fine!

 

[Charles_McG]

I thought all sparkies counted as high power motors, regardless of impulse and thrust.

 

[noffie79]

Even if they're considered HP, I don't need a waiver because I'm under 3.3lb and 4.4oz, correct?

 

[jd2cylman]

I thought all sparkies counted as high power motors, regardless of impulse and thrust.

There's no mention of high power limitation, just 4.4 oz. of propellant. Being able to see the glowsticks will be the hard part. I'd pick a dark night and see how far away they're really visible. You're probably looking at 1000ft on the G80. Will the sticks still be visible at that distance? Just asking so you'll be able to find it again.

Adrian

 

[tsai]

I thought all sparkies counted as high power motors, regardless of impulse and thrust.

There are 3 different set of regulations, and they are somewhat orthogonal yet overlap:
1) FAA - Determine whether a rocket is Class 1 or Class 2 (we'll ignore Class 3)
2) NFPA - Manufacturing, shipping, and storage of rocket motors. Ground operations requirements.
3) NAR/TRA - Categorization of a High Power motor for the purposes of certifications and self-regulation.

In theory, all of these should overlap and be consistent with each other, and therefore a common set of guidelines will help us be conformant to all of them. In practice, they have not always been completely consistent, so knowing which rules/guidelines applies at what time can be a problem and leads to confusion.

It's been a while since I read all the regs, so here is my humble opinion on how it works at this time:
1) NAR/TRA have declared all sparky motors to require high power certification to fly. This is regardless of any other rules.
2) For the purpose of needing an FAA waiver, 3.3lbs and 4.4 oz of propellant is the cutoff. This is FAR 101. Doesn't matter if it's a high power motor of not. Yes, you can fly high power motors at a Class 1 launch.
3) For operating launch activities, refer to NFPA 1127. This is the ground operations regulations, in conjunction with the FAA waiver for the airspace above the ground. In theory, the definitions in the NFPA regs and the FAA regs should be identical.
4) For storing motors when not in use, refer to the NFPA regs. Also gives guidelines for shipping, so HAZMAT shipping requirements are defined here.

I've heard that the recent revisions to the various regs have got them all nearly consistent, but I haven't read them recently enough to validate that.

Hope this helps.

- Ken

 

[noffie79]

Those fancy regs are all good, but basically I can fly a 20 ounce Leviathan on a G80 Skidmark at night if I choose, correct? Not sure I WILL be doing it, but we think it would be awesome to see. If I can't see the glow sticks from 1000 ft, obviously I won't be doing so because I'd rather not lose my rocket or my casing.

 

[Zeroignite]

You're almost certainly going to want a brighter light than glow sticks.

 

[scsager]

You're almost certainly going to want a brighter light than glow sticks.

I found someone's rocket with some glow sticks taped to it at a night launch a few years ago - because I almost stepped on it!! It was almost impossible to see from just a few feet away.

If you want to make a rocket "Night-Launch-Capable" on the cheap, tape a couple of AAA LED flashlights on it - instead of glow sticks.

Something like this would work



... Here's our night-rocket from a few years ago...

 

[Rex R]

if you're doing this as part of an organized launch, you should check that your light source is good for at least 30 minutes. I have seen(or rather not seen) night flyers where the batteries died some time between rso check-in and launch, figure 5 -10 minutes for flight prep and pad assignment and another 5 - 10 minutes waiting on the pad, plus however long the flight lasts and retrieval. this time of year night time temps are cool and that cuts into the 'glow' time, light sticks effectively stop working at around 40F.
Rex

 

[jimzcatz]

It's 3.3 pounds total liftoff weight, not plus additional 4.4 oz. of propellant. 1500 grams total, including 125 grams max propellant.

 

[blackbrandt]

Jim... just as we learned at the LDRS night launch... :rofl:

 

[cavecentral]

We have a HPR waiver (to 3K) for our night launches. We require some form of real lighting (LEDS, para lights, cheap LED flashlights, camping lights, etc. A little more than just glow sticks. Sparkies are cool. If you have a real nice LED setup smokies are better to display the lights

I'd check with the local club. If you fly late Fall / Winter it gets dark early and sparkies look pretty awesome just prior to the waiver closing in the lower light conditions. That gets you most of the coolness of a night flight without any rule changes.