Rustoleum incompatibility issues.

[gldknght]

This may work fine for you, and if it does - great. Some things work better for some folks than for others.

However, this it is worth noting that this is absolutely not in accordance with the instructions for the paint, which is to do *all* coats within one hour, and then wait. It sounds like you're doing several hours of painting before stopping to let it dry.

The clock starts running when the first drop of paint hits the rocket, and then after an hour (at most) you're done. In general you only need 5-10 minutes between coats, so you should be able to do, say, 5 coats within one session pretty comfortably, if so inclined. I don't think I've ever done more than 4. The more coats I do in a session, the longer I let it dry before painting again.

Again, some folks seem to have better luck with this sort of thing, and can stretch the rules without a problem, but I would definitely not recommend this sort of timing for someone starting out.

I do almost exactly the same process (I have to wait longer for the primer to dry, because I want to sand it smooth before painting) that Aero B outlines, including the timing, but only with regular Rusto primer and paint. I only rarely have any problems, and when I do, it's usually do to improper surface prep.

I actually use the timer on my phone set to 15 minutes, so the flash time between coats is as precise and consistent as possible.

 

[mh9162013]

I actually use the timer on my phone set to 15 minutes, so the flash time between coats is as precise and consistent as possible.

I hope you also account for humidity, ambient temperature and amount of direct sunlight (if any).

 

[gldknght]

I hope you also account for humidity, ambient temperature and amount of direct sunlight (if any).

Actually, I don't.

I spray outside in direct sunlight whenever possible, but use exactly the same process when I paint in my basement.

When I do paint in the sun, after my final coat, I leave the model in the sun, then set my timer, and turn it a quarter turn every 25 minutes. Two hours in the sun and there is no more paint smell when I bring it inside.

 

[mh9162013]

Actually, I don't.

I spray outside in direct sunlight whenever possible, but use exactly the same process when I paint in my basement.

When I do paint in the sun, after my final coat, I leave the model in the sun, then set my timer, and turn it a quarter turn every 25 minutes. Two hours in the sun and there is no more paint smell when I bring it inside.

So what's the point of waiting 15 minutes instead of 13 or 17 when your painting conditions likely fluctuate at least several degrees F and 10%+ relative humidity and the amount of heat/radiation from the sunlight hitting you varies each time you paint?

 

[gldknght]

So what's the point of waiting 15 minutes instead of 13 or 17 when your painting conditions likely fluctuate at least several degrees F and 10%+ relative humidity and the amount of heat/radiation from the sunlight hitting you varies each time you paint?

15 minutes was arrived at after some experimentation. The flash time between coats seems to be more critical than slight (+- 10 to 15 %) variations in weather conditions. Obviously, I don't paint in the rain or when it's foggy. I'm talking slight, not extreme, variations.

Recoating at 13 or 17 minutes also probably won't effect the final result either, I merely choose to recoat at 15. I get consistent results this way.

 

[Wrightme43]

Well I can tell everyone what not to do with Rustoleum 2X.

Do not spray two thin coats of primer, let dry 24 hours, sand to 600, clean rocket, wipe down with slightly damp alcohol on quality shop towels, then top coat with Rustoleum 2x. Thats a blooming wrinkling disaster.

I have been letting it cure in the heat of my truck, I will sand it off and I may clear coat it to remind me not to do that again. I think it will look like broken stone so there is that. Lol.


Who knows I may do something else.


Thank you all for the advice.

 

[mh9162013]

15 minutes was arrived at after some experimentation. The flash time between coats seems to be more critical than slight (+- 10 to 15 %) variations in weather conditions. Obviously, I don't paint in the rain or when it's foggy. I'm talking slight, not extreme, variations.

Recoating at 13 or 17 minutes also probably won't effect the final result either, I merely choose to recoat at 15. I get consistent results this way.

If you get consistent results, you're definitely doing something right. (which is more than I can say for my experiences with spray cans, unfortunately).

 

[gldknght]

If you get consistent results, you're definitely doing something right. (which is more than I can say for my experiences with spray cans, unfortunately).

Practice makes perfect, I guess.
If you are interested, I have several posts here with photos of my builds. I think all of the photos show what my paint jobs look like.
Attached are two of my most recent ones:

 

[Wrightme43]

I like the results, I will definitely try this way.

 

[Aero B]

This is a follow up and clarification to my previous post.

I should have included that this painting is done inside under an exhaust hood at 70°-75°.
However, at home, I do this same basic procedure outside when the weather is good.

To clarify...
First primer coat applied to the parts with second coat at 15-20 minutes. Then wait another 15-20 minutes dry time. Approximately half an hour.
Then, three even coats of paint, approximately 30 minutes apart, which takes about 1 hour.
This is shooting medium coats to allow longer flash time.
Light coats can be put on with shorter wait times of course.
This meets the instructions on the 2x and commercial Rustoleum spray cans pertaining to re-coat within one hour.

Hope this is a bit more clear.

 

[neil_w]

This meets the instructions on the 2x and commercial Rustoleum spray cans pertaining to re-coat within one hour.

The meaning of the instructions is that *all* coats in one session are done within one hour. You have described at least 90 minutes of painting, if I understand correctly. Again, if it works for you then great.

I will add that the abbreviated, micro-print instructions on the can are very easy to misread and/or misunderstand. However, the support folks at Rustoleum are pretty responsive and a good way to resolve any questions.

 

[wsume99]

I have two suggestions -

1) NEVER USE 2X PRIMER. I cannot stress this enough. Even all caps does not convey how much I dislike 2X primer. For primer I use Rusto etching primer or filler primer. Both can be sanded as soon as they are dry (typically within 30-60min) and recoated with another coat of primer or topcoat afterwards. I've never had any issues with either of these primers as long as they were allowed to dry to the touch.

2) When applying 2X color or clear, multiple light coats with short breaks (~10-15min) in between is the best method I have found. Then either immediately apply the clear coat OR wait 7-10 days minimum to let the paint cure before doing anything else to the finish. Waiting for the 'paint' smell to go away is a good idea but it can take as long as a month in my experience. I've never had any issues when I waited at least a week (I normally wait 10 days just to be extra safe) before applying another coat. Obviously if you are applying decals between the color and clear you have to wait. You basically have two options with 2X, apply everything before it can begin drying at all or wait the days it takes for each coat to completely cure before attempting another coat.

 

[mh9162013]

I have two suggestions -

1) NEVER USE 2X PRIMER. I cannot stress this enough. Even all caps does not convey how much I dislike 2X primer. For primer I use Rusto etching primer or filler primer. Both can be sanded as soon as they are dry (typically within 30-60min) and recoated with another coat of primer or topcoat afterwards. I've never had any issues with either of these primers as long as they were allowed to dry to the touch.

2) When applying 2X color or clear multiple light coats with short breaks (~10-15min) in between is the best method I have found. Then either immediately apply the clear coat OR wait 7-10 days minimum to let the paint cure before doing anything else to the finish. Obviously if you are applying decals between the color and clear you have to wait. You basically have two options with 2X, apply everything before it can begin drying at all or wait the days it takes for each coat to completely cure before attempting another coat.

Never is a very strong word, but I can't argue with the overall point here. I've used the 2X primer and it was ok, as long as you didn't need to do any sanding. The Rustoluem filler/sanding primers work very well in my experience and I rely on them to get the best finish possible with my rockets.

 

[wsume99]

Never is a very strong word, but I can't argue with the overall point here. I've used the 2X primer and it was ok, as long as you didn't need to do any sanding. The Rustoluem filler/sanding primers work very well in my experience and I rely on them to get the best finish possible with my rockets.

LOL, I said it was a suggestion. Feel free to use 2X but I cannot think of any reason to not use the better non 2X rusto primers instead. They perform much better IMO and don't come with any of the possible drying issues that all 2X products seem to have.

 

[Aero B]

The meaning of the instructions is that *all* coats in one session are done within one hour. You have described at least 90 minutes of painting, if I understand correctly. Again, if it works for you then great.

I will add that the abbreviated, micro-print instructions on the can are very easy to misread and/or misunderstand. However, the support folks at Rustoleum are pretty responsive and a good way to resolve any questions.

Well, the only time I have had any issues is when I sprayed a follow up paint coat after about 2 1/2 hours.
The paint surface had hardened to the point that the solvent in the fresh coat broke through the surface causing wrinkles to form.
I even took some more old parts and tried the same process again as an experiment and got the same results.
I do understand the point you are making. Re-coat time can be critical with many brands of paint. One of the reasons I use Rustoleum in our shop is because it is a bit forgiving. I learned that re-coating somewhere between 2 hours and 18 will be problematic. If I don't have the paint the way I want within an hour or so, the parts are put away for 24-48 hours to cure.
And, I did check with Rustoleum and was told I was doing it correctly.

 

[mikec]

Well I can tell everyone what not to do with Rustoleum 2X.

Do not spray two thin coats of primer, let dry 24 hours, sand to 600, clean rocket, wipe down with slightly damp alcohol on quality shop towels, then top coat with Rustoleum 2x. Thats a blooming wrinkling disaster.

With the exception of the alcohol that's more or less what I do, and I've never had the primer itself wrinkle, is that what you say is happening?

I've had a second color coat of 2x wrinkle over the first for sure, but I've never ever had the primer wrinkle that I can recall.

 

[Wrightme43]

With the exception of the alcohol that's more or less what I do, and I've never had the primer itself wrinkle, is that what you say is happening?

I've had a second color coat of 2x wrinkle over the first for sure, but I've never ever had the primer wrinkle that I can recall.

no the primer is perfect, just the top coat.

 

[lakeroadster]

Don't use 2X. I used 2X paint on a rocket and had issues..

Rustoleum makes Primer (Automotive) and Paint (Stops Rust Advanced Formula, white can) that is not 2X.

I now use these types, never had a problem.

 

[wsume99]

^^^
I actually do the same however the color selection of the non 2X paint is smaller or at least it is where I shop. So I tend to stick to primary colors which are available and avoid 2X as much as possible. I will use 2X when I need a specific color that is not available in the non 2X paint. When I use 2X I do all the colors in 2X, I don't like to mix paint types.

 

[neil_w]

When I use 2X I do all the colors in 2X, I don't like to mix paint types.

Rustoleum told me that their different lines are compatible. I've certainly mixed the 2x and Stops Rust metallics with no problem.

 

[wsume99]

Rustoleum told me that their different lines are compatible. I've certainly mixed the 2x and Stops Rust metallics with no problem.

Well that's great Rustoleum says it's compatible but the instructions on their cans also say you can recoat 2X after 24h and I know that causes problems. So I have a hard time believing anything I hear from them. I place much more stock in the fact that an actual user has done it successfully as you say you've done.

 

[Titan II]

Well that's great Rustoleum says it's compatible but the instructions on their cans also say you can recoat 2X after 24h and I know that causes problems. So I have a hard time believing anything I hear from them. I place much more stock in the fact that an actual user has done it successfully as you say you've done.

Does not cause problems here. I have used 2X on all my rockets, several RC airplanes, and various other projects during the past 10 years. I have never had any problems with primers or color coats.

 

[Wrightme43]

Ok tried new method.
Wipe down 2x primer, wait 15 minutes, 2x primer, wait 15 minutes, 2x gloss top coat grey on one rocket, 2x gloss cranberry red on another, 2x gloss yellow on another, wait 15 minutes gloss 2x all colors again.

Wait from Saturday night till Thursday night, moving rockets to my truck interior on Monday so they get even hotter in interior in the sun.
No smell, no nothing, wet sand, wipe down, wipe down alcohol, dry.
Apply 1 coat 2x gloss clear. All paint under clear within 5 minutes rippples up and wrinkles. Paint loses all gloss.

This stuff is garbage.

 

[gldknght]

Ok tried new method.
Wipe down 2x primer, wait 15 minutes, 2x primer, wait 15 minutes, 2x gloss top coat grey on one rocket, 2x gloss cranberry red on another, 2x gloss yellow on another, wait 15 minutes gloss 2x all colors again.

Wait from Saturday night till Thursday night, moving rockets to my truck interior on Monday so they get even hotter in interior in the sun.
No smell, no nothing, wet sand, wipe down, wipe down alcohol, dry.
Apply 1 coat 2x gloss clear. All paint under clear within 5 minutes rippples up and wrinkles. Paint loses all gloss.

This stuff is garbage.

Yep. This is exactly why I will not use Rusto 2X crap.

 

[lakeroadster]

Ok tried new method.
Wipe down 2x primer, wait 15 minutes, 2x primer, wait 15 minutes, 2x gloss top coat grey on one rocket, 2x gloss cranberry red on another, 2x gloss yellow on another, wait 15 minutes gloss 2x all colors again.

Wait from Saturday night till Thursday night, moving rockets to my truck interior on Monday so they get even hotter in interior in the sun.
No smell, no nothing, wet sand, wipe down, wipe down alcohol, dry.
Apply 1 coat 2x gloss clear. All paint under clear within 5 minutes rippples up and wrinkles. Paint loses all gloss.

This stuff is garbage.

Don't wipe it down with alcohol.... no wonder it's bubbling up.

 

[neil_w]

Don't wipe it down with alcohol.... no wonder it's bubbling up.

I usually do an alcohol wipe, with no problems... alcohol evaporates off pretty quickly, what's the problem?

 

[lakeroadster]

I usually do an alcohol wipe, with no problems... alcohol evaporates off pretty quickly, what's the problem?

Alcohol is a solvent. Doesn't say anything about using alcohol in the instructions.

​

 

[Wrightme43]

I don't believe alcohol is the problem. I have a ticket in with rustoleum to get their advice.

Wrinkling​

• Updated 1 year ago

Wrinkling
An uncommon coating defect, appearing as a raised and crinkled surface, forming after a new coat or coating is applied over a previous one.

Wrinkling may appear after a few minutes, or even as the next coat is being applied. With solvent-based spray paints, wrinkling is typically caused by the solvents in the most recent coat breaking through the "skin" of the previous coat that is still drying.

Causes of Wrinkling:

Applying the next coat too soon

While a rare occurrence, wrinkling may occur with any type of coating, and is usually caused by the timing between two coats or coatings. Once a coat has been applied, it quickly begins to form a skin, and recoating or applying the next coating too soon may cause wrinkling. On Rust-Oleum paint labels there will be drying and recoat times listed, and it is important to read and follow these carefully to ensure a successful application

Applying heavy coats

Applying heavy coats of paint can slow the drying process, leaving the coating vulnerable to wrinkling, as well as other issues such as mud cracking, and orange peel. For the best results and drying, apply thin, even coats, building the coating thickness over multiple applications

Painting in poor drying conditions

Stated drying times are generally based on a 70°F temperature and 50% humidity. High temperatures (especially direct sunlight) may cause a coating to form a skin too rapidly, which contracts the paint on its surface. Applying in cooler conditions, or high humidity, may slow the drying process considerably. Learn more about drying and curing here

Sanding just before applying the next coat

Oil-based paint dries through oxidation, or a reaction with air. This causes our spray paints to create a "skin" and sanding can compromise this skin, leaving the drying paint beneath exposed to the solvents in the next coat. If the coating is sanded, it is best to clean away the sanding debris, and allow the skin to harden for 24-48 hours before continuing on with the next coat

Surface contaminants (wax, grease, etc.)

Proper surface preparation prior to painting is the key to a successful application, and the best way to ensure a defect free, perfect finish every time. Use of a quality degreaser such as our Krud Kutter Original is an excellent way to ensure all surface contaminants are removed, and the priming coat will strongly adhere to the substrate. While surface contaminants may cause film defects on the first coat, such as fisheyes, dust and debris may also settle on an existing coat, causing problems when the next coat is applied. Wiping the surface clean prior to applying the next coat is good practice if there has been an extended time between coats

Fixing the surface:

• First, lightly sand the wrinkled portion of the surface with 220-320 grit sandpaper until it is smooth. A sharp paint scraper may also be used to scrape just the wrinkled portion smooth and flush with the surrounding paint. Be sure to clean away all sanding debris from the surface
• Once the surface is smooth, it is best to wait 24-48 hours before recoating, then apply a light, even coat to the entire portion of the project surface that was affected, to ensure an even color and sheen

Always remember that our Rust-Oleum Product Support Team is here and happy to help if you have any questions or concerns!

 

[gldknght]

Don't wipe it down with alcohol.... no wonder it's bubbling up.

No.

While it's true alcohol is a solvent for certain things, it will have absolutely no effect on enamel or lacquer based paint, especially after it dies. Alcohol is mainly a degreaser / finger print remover. It should actually make the next coats of paint stick better.

If you use alcohol to wipe sanding dust off your paint and let it completely dry before clear coating, the alcohol is NOT causing the bubble-up / wrinkling.

 

[lakeroadster]

No.

While it's true alcohol is a solvent for certain things, it will have absolutely no effect on enamel or lacquer based paint, especially after it dies. Alcohol is mainly a degreaser / finger print remover. It should actually make the next coats of paint stick better.

If you use alcohol to wipe sanding dust off your paint and let it completely dry before clear coating, the alcohol is NOT causing the bubble-up / wrinkling.

"completely dry" are the keywords....

It's an unneeded step, IMO. And, for the record, I have no wrinkling issues.