Rocket Builder?

[artapplewhite]

Has anyone gotten a email about "Rocket Builder"? Does anyone know anything about this?
Art Applewhite

 

[Tobor]

Yeah, I've heard about this event. The guys on the WooshRocketry Google group have been chatting about it. Personally I'm not sure how legit this thing is.

 

[artapplewhite]

On the face of it, it looks like it could be fun as long as everyone keeps safety in mind.

 

[BBowmaster]

Looks like a geeky reality show. So scripted CATOs, enforced drama, etc.

 

[artapplewhite]

Really? Does engineering skill, ingenuity, speed, strength, and durability mean CATO to you?
What do you know, that's beyond what's in the announcement?

 

[jqavins]

Let's see these serious rocket folks strap some motors to a VW.
Will Jimmy and Janet's flirting get off the ground, or will it be anothef CATO?

I'd give such a show a try (watching, that is) but I'm not hopeful. Art, they'd be lucky to get someone of your skill and stature; good luck and I hope ypu don't regret it.

Really? Does engineering skill, ingenuity, speed, strength, and durability mean CATO to you?
What do you know, that's beyond what's in the announcement?

Nothing. It's in the announcement that this is for a TV show, and that's enough to make me expect the worst.

Gee, d'ya think I'm being a little too cynical? Maybe?

 

[Rob702Martinez]

This made me think twice about it...

From another forum...

"Folks,

We are aware of a media production company seeking to include hobby rocketry in a TV series for Discovery Science titled “The Explosion Show” and it would seem at least three others based on approaches to Balls.

As an organization we have spent considerable time and money to prove to the government that our propellant is not explosive and further doesn’t function by explosion.

If you are approached, the BoD would strongly suggest you point out the above and respectfully decline any involvement.

We would ask every prefecture and member to please consider the impact of getting involved in such endeavors, what might appear to be harmless fun, could be used against us as examples of why we need to be regulated.

Regards "

 

[BBowmaster]

Really? Does engineering skill, ingenuity, speed, strength, and durability mean CATO to you?
What do you know, that's beyond what's in the announcement?

What is in the announcement is sufficient for some deduction. I may be way off, but here’s what stands out to me:

• “Major cable network”
• “new competition series”
• “wyldside media”

Those tell me this is likely to be a scripted “reality” show like Iron Chef, Inkmaster, Dancemoms, Paradise Hotel, or Junkyard Wars.

CATOs are dramatic and make good video. See the Dude Perfect videos for examples. Therefore there WILL be CATOs even if all the contestants are perfectly competent in avoiding them.

I foresee:

• Dramatic CATOs with lots of fire and smoke
• heartache (real or staged) from broken rockets
• Staged and contrived drama between contestants or teams
• An occasional by-the-book launch

I could be way off, but unless that “major cable network” is PBS, I doubt it. Still, if you’ve got the skills and resources to participate as a contestant, it will probably be fun (though exploitive, demeaning, and possibly a bad view of the hobby).

 

[jqavins]

The above is a much more eloquent statement of what I was thinking. I will add, on the other side, that not all such shows are equally bad. I don't know just how scripted all the competition shows are, and and I'm some are more than others. As far as what I see from this side of the TV there's a broad range of BS from, just for a few examples, a baseball game to Forged in Fire to The Great Food Truck Race to Real Housewives of Wherever. So will this turn out to be Forged in Perchlorate (I'd watch), The Great Rocket Ship Race (I'd be disappointed), or The Real Rocketeers of Blackrock (I'd spit nails)? I don't know, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

For potential participants, please keep this in mind: you won't be in the editing room. No matter what you do and say on camera, if they want to make you or the hobby look bad they will. I'm not saying this will happen; I'm just saying that you have no control over it. None. You'll have all the influence of an A10-0 in someone's L3 project.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

This is virtually the same as when Discovery covered the LDRS launch in Kansas in 2002 (?) .

 

[Daddyisabar]

Who could forget Rocket City Rednecks!

 

[cerving]

What is in the announcement is sufficient for some deduction. I may be way off, but here’s what stands out to me:

• “Major cable network”
• “new competition series”
• “wyldside media”

Those tell me this is likely to be a scripted “reality” show like Iron Chef, Inkmaster, Dancemoms, Paradise Hotel, or Junkyard Wars.

CATOs are dramatic and make good video. See the Dude Perfect videos for examples. Therefore there WILL be CATOs even if all the contestants are perfectly competent in avoiding them.

I foresee:

• Dramatic CATOs with lots of fire and smoke
• heartache (real or staged) from broken rockets
• Staged and contrived drama between contestants or teams
• An occasional by-the-book launch

I could be way off, but unless that “major cable network” is PBS, I doubt it. Still, if you’ve got the skills and resources to participate as a contestant, it will probably be fun (though exploitive, demeaning, and possibly a bad view of the hobby).

+1 on this. All the rocketry cable shows that I've ever seen are all about CATO's (obviously staged, but most in the target audience wouldn't know that) and ballistic "recoveries". This is not going to help us

 

[Nytrunner]

Yep, this has already been a discussion topic among the HARA officers too. It "sounds" cool, but Unconventional Materials has me cautious.

I actually like Forged in Fire, but the woosh and fire of a rocket reality show competition has great potential to turn it into more of a spectacle farm, with a couple well done rockets that perform perfectly and win.

Heck, we have enough exciting mishaps striving for safe, successful, "boring" launches without external pressure to look good on camera.

I'd draw a difference with the LDRS coverage. That was them covering an official TRA event. This will be their house, their rules.

Wonder where they'll get their motors, or will contestants need to produce their own....

 

[Bat-mite]

I know nothing about this, other than that Neil McGilvray was posting about it a couple of years ago.

I think the way these shows work is kind of like a game show. You need to show up at their range/set for a matter of weeks, and you don't get paid unless you win.

But ... someone should contact them and find out. Funny they don't seem to know about TRF ....

 

[Charles_McG]

I was once called by a production company looking to do a small distillery reality program. They hung up when I got to the words ‘due diligence’.

 

[jqavins]

On a tangent, a hypothetical show that I'd like to see, one that mixes design, build, and flight processes; actual designs that range from mundane to wacky but all sound, good demonstrations of both normal and unusual build techniques that may be needed, and flights that usually go fine (and meaningful analysis when they don't) is a show that would probably never fly on the major cable networks. Not dramatic or exciting enough. But...

It could work as some sincere builder's YouTube channel, and as that thought came, so came that thought that perhaps someone is doing it. Yes, I know that there is plenty of stupid rocket stuff on YouTube, and I've seen a little sincerely done but not so well done stuff, mostly test firing R-candy motors.

Does anyone know of someone doing with rocketry what, for example, abom79, This Old Tony, and Big Clive do in their respective fields? That is, reasonably well produced material of genuine interest to insiders like us, released with at least a semblance of regularity?

 

[cwbullet]

I personally think any publicity to the hobby is good, but we will have to extra diligent for out rules on the field once we start getting new members attracted by the show.

 

[dr wogz]

While I haven't gotten "this" letter, I did get one similar a few years ago.

I don't understand, or the impression they gave me, was that they expected a working rocket in a few hours. So, a crash build with whatever, then some 'event' to see how it performs..

 

[Bat-mite]

One thing's for sure: this will be like Mythbusters. You'll need to know tools, materials, structural integrity, etc. This won't be kit building; and if it is like a cooking competition show, you will need to be able to improvise with unusual materials or a lack of what you really need.

In the end, lots of rockets will fail because they will have been built poorly due too a lack of time, correct materials, and tools.

Just guessing. That's how I'd do it if I were a reality TV producer.

 

[jqavins]

Mostly that sounds about right, but how is it like Mythbusters. Those guys had all the tools in the world, assistance from expert consultants that was only usually off camera, and took all the time they needed to get builds done. The best thing about that show is that, as far as I could see, didn't go in for fake drama or forced errors, and when they staged failures they were right up front about it. "Well, that was interesting, I didn't think it would survive that. I guess the myth is confirmed. But now let's blow something up!"

 

[Bat-mite]

Mostly that sounds about right, but how is it like Mythbusters. Those guys had all the tools in the world, assistance from expert consultants that was only usually off camera, and took all the time they needed to get builds done. The best thing about that show is that, as far as I could see, didn't go in for fake drama or forced errors, and when they staged failures they were right up front about it. "Well, that was interesting, I didn't think it would survive that. I guess the myth is confirmed. But now let's blow something up!"

I just mean that the contestants will need to be able to think on the fly and come up with unorthodox solutions.

 

[jqavins]

Sounds more like Junkyard Wars to me. Not important.

(Adam, Jamie, Kari, Grant, and Tory would have made an awesome Junkyard Wars team.)

 

[Jim Hinton]

Hi Folks;

I got the email, I haven't responded yet. With my ridiculous work schedule, I'm kidding myself to think that I have any spare time.

Jim

 

[Ian A Dalton]

I don’t like it. There’s too much risk that they will misrepresent the hobby. The last thing we need is for them to make it look like we’re blowing stuff up with our rockets and the government deciding to step in and take a look. We battled the perception that our motors should be classified as explosives and won. NAR and Tripoli spent so much money on that effort it would be a shame if someone decided to ruin it for a few minutes of notoriety.

 

[Rob702Martinez]

Ditto!

 

[artapplewhite]

I don’t like it. There’s too much risk that they will misrepresent the hobby. The last thing we need is for them to make it look like we’re blowing stuff up with our rockets and the government deciding to step in and take a look. We battled the perception that our motors should be classified as explosives and won. NAR and Tripoli spent so much money on that effort it would be a shame if someone decided to ruin it for a few minutes of notoriety.

We were free to own all the motor hardware we wanted and there was no ban on hybrid motors or propellants. The law suite was about the misclassification of APCP as a low explosive. We won because the Government, or at least the BATFE, didn't have their science right. It took a while for our case to work through the courts and it cost too much money. NAR and TRA membership dues went up substantially as a result. We won that court battle several years ago, why haven't dues gone down? ......but I digress.

Maybe we should clean up our own act first. Tripoli is the capitol of Libya, currently on the U.S. terrorist countries list. The "D" in L.D.R.S. brings a lot of unnecessary and unfavorable attention to the hobby. BALLS isn't even an acronym. Why is a rocket launch called that when it sounds so plainly misogynistic? A little attention to these things might improve public perceptions and lower our insurance premiums as well.

There are people on YouTube "blowing stuff up with" their "rockets". I wonder if they them got the same invitation we did. At least they are a lot easier to find. Kudos to the casting company for at least trying to find some real "hard-core hobbyists" instead of those YouTube wannabes.

We can't run and hide every time there's an opportunity to do good for the hobby just because we're afraid the "big kids" are going to beat us up and take our lunch money. Those, who's sole motivation is "a few minutes of notoriety" are already representing us, whether we like it or not.

Art Applewhite
Don't fear failing;
Fear, not trying.

 

[jmwoody]

Well stated Art and you bring up a number of salient points worth considering.

John

 

[Ez2cDave]

This sounds like the "reincarnation" of "MASTER-BLASTERS" . . . Stay away, stay FAR away ! ! !

Dave F.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I don’t like it. There’s too much risk that they will misrepresent the hobby. The last thing we need is for them to make it look like we’re blowing stuff up with our rockets and the government deciding to step in and take a look. We battled the perception that our motors should be classified as explosives and won. NAR and Tripoli spent so much money on that effort it would be a shame if someone decided to ruin it for a few minutes of notoriety.

Agreed . . . 100 % . . . This thing sounds like "MASTER-BLASTERS - 2.0" to me . . . This should NOT happen !

Dave F.

 

[Steve Shannon]

1. Several days ago there was a discussion about this and recommendations on how members and Prefectures should consider these overtures.
2. These program are proposed every year. We really haven’t seen any produced for years.
3. I joined Tripoli in 2001. The price to join Tripoli in 2000 was $70 (without magazine! The price was $109 with the magazine). The price to join now is $70. The price to renew is $60. I suspect most other organizations have had significant increases in that time. Art joined in 2002 so neither he nor I have seen a net upward change in our dues during that time. In fact we pay $10 less per year than it cost to join.
4. The lawsuit was paid for mostly by voluntary contributions. For example I did payroll deductions. When our financial conditions actually started getting tight the participation with some of the television productions provided a necessary infusion of cash. Was it a deal with the devil? Some people will always think so, but had Tripoli and NAR bowed out of the lawsuit the landscape of high power rocketry would be much different.
5. Eventually more programs will be produced. We owe it to ourselves to do what we can (which is admittedly limited) to try to keep them honest. Burying our heads in the sand will leave us dealing with whatever message they choose to show.
Steve