questions concerning how many pounds certain model engines can lift and for how long.

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thor7687

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Hey guys im somewhat new to the model rocket setting and i was wondering if anyone knew of a chart of some sort that goes more into depth about model rocket engines. Im looking to find out how many pounds for example a model G rocket engine could lift. https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro77704.htm is what i need help understanding because after googling as much as i could im still uncertain about the answers im trying to attain.

Specifications

•Impulse energy- G
•Average thrust in Newtons- 77N (17.3 lbs) ======================================= Does this mean it can lift something up thats 17 pounds?
•Delay in seconds between propellant burn-out and activiation of the ejection charge- 4 seconds=======Does this mean the thrust lasts for around 4 seconds before its alttitude starts to deminish?
•Propellant type- Redline
•For use in- 29mm Composite Motor Rockets
•Primary use- Single Stage
•Motor diameter- 1.125" 29 mm
•Assembled weight- 4.5 oz. 128 g
•Maximium liftoff weight- 52 oz. 1474 g======================================== 52oz is about 3.25 pounds does this mean it is what it can lift in wieght?
•Aerotech Product Number: 77704

Thrust is given a number in newtons, is this number always attained from the rocket launching from a hard surface? Im assuming that the ammount a rocket can thrust will vary if its launching further from the ground or a hard surface rather than pressed against it, if so is their some kind of calculation i can use to adjust it?

Im re-creating a movie scene from the movie iron man and id like to make a hollow sculpture/mannequin and id like to use a few model rocket engines to launch it as high as i can to get a more real life feel to the shot. Im just trying to calculate how many rocket engines (if at all) i would need to do so. If the maximium liftoff wieght is the correct number for me to launch from the ground then for something that was persay 50lbs according to these properties i would need atleast 15 to 16 engines to even get the thing off the ground. At which point does the 255-272 pounds of thrust mean it will keep the 50 pound object increasing its alttitude for 4 seconds until the engine cuts out?

I will be having 8 points(and how ever many rocket engines attached to each point) of lift off on the movie prop, 4 on the back, 1 on each wrist, and 1 on each ankle. This is important because i was asking about if the engines attached to the back/wrists will get the same thrust as the ones attached to the ankle because of the distance from the ground.
 
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That sort of use will probably not be well received here, not too many of us are flying robots. With that many motors burning at ground level, you're inviting many problems. I will not condone, advise, or encourage.
 
Getting that many redlines lit at once, at the same time, will not be easy. Stability would be tricky even if you could do it.

You'd also need an FAA waiver, and at that total impluse, some kinda of cert that I'm too tired at the moment to look up. I believe.

But before you get to that, I just don't think it'll work.

Btw:
https://www.rocketreviews.com/aerotech-g77r.html
1.3 seconds of thrust. The four sex delay is just that. A no thrust delay until the ejection blows.
It will lift 3.3 pounds.
 
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I doubt you will get altitude at all. Without any sort of stability, your motor cluster, if you could get them all lit, would probably turn your manequin into a dangerous land shark. What you are proposing is a "Hey y'all, watch this" moment. Hopefully worse case, you manequin would fall over and just burn itself out.
 
Why are you guys even answering him? Dont encourage this. If you do we will read about it in the headlines. This is against ALL of our safety codes, and I wouldnt doubt its illegal. PLEASE, dont encourage this!!!
 
I think we've been trying to politely discourage.

To be more blunt: there is no way to make this work. There is a reason they use CGI for all this in movies. You will never get stability. The list of technical issues would go on for pages. You will likely hurt someone or destroy property.
 
I will take a little bit different of an approach to this... I would argue that to say that it can't be made stable is inaccurate. I have seen an Ironman oddrock before somewhere that flew quite stable. There is no reason that this can not be done, safe, and inline with various safety codes assuming it is done correctly... This kind of stuff is done for movies and other special effect purposes all the time.

With that said, to the original poster, what you are proposing is a very large proposition and you are not going about it quite the right way. You will need a much larger central motor (likely in the K range) and small E motors could be used other areas for effect as could various other pyrotechnic devices. The major issue to address is the stability and it would require a lot of time and work to get right. A more logical approach is to find a small light model and find a way to get it stable, fly it on a small motor to prove that it is stable, and than build your scene to scale using appropriate angles to support the scale. What you are currently trying to do, while possible, appears to be something that is WAY over your head based upon the way you are going about it.
 
What you need is one big rocket motor not a bunch of little ones. You'll also need a large set of fins for stabilization. I'd start with a scale model, try launching a Barbie Doll on C motor first. Once you've gotten the Barbie to fly right get your certifications through Tripoli and fly your Iron Man oddroc project. If you fast track things you should be ready in about a year, just in time for the next LDRS. The way to start is by building some model rockets and learning the hows and whys of rocketry. Then work your way up through mid power to high power rocketry.

But why launch a manequin for a momentary flight when you could build a R/C flying Iron Man that will stay up for minutes? I seem to recall a movie promotion a few months ago where they did just that in the skies over New York city.
 
Hi Thor! Welcome to TRF and the mass insanity we all suffer for rocketry. While there is a huge amount of experience here and a wide variety of opinions, every once in a while someone boards the bus to crazy town and we all cry for you to get off before it's too late! Yes- You r project sounds wonderful in theory and I would be the last to discourage you from learning how to do this. as I sit at my desk (in my real job) I'm looking at the "Hollywood Expendables' hat I wore in to day and reflected what I've gone thru for 'special effects' requested from PA's and directors. Most don't have the basics of rocketry or even physics and so when they want something, they really don't care how it gets done. In your case, I would patiently explain that placing all those rocket motors scattered about may have different thrust vectors and the stress they may incur (even if you do get them to ignite all at once- a whole practice by itself) the project has more chance of shredding (coming apart) than creating a spectacular moment on film. Blue/green screen shots can edit out cables used to 'fly' objects and are more cost effective than actually doing it. As other posts mentioned, you have to take the steps to learn your craft and while you may have the chops of a great movie maker, few started out in special effects and left those to the 'slave camps' of film production. Having said that you can utilize a web site called thrustcurve.org. for specifics on motors and thrust details. I'd use a rope, myself! Software is so much safer! Berst of luck with your film project. BTW-make friends with a certified pyro-he could save your life!
 
I think someone should right to Mythbusters and see if they can do it. Plus it would make for a good hours watching:grin:. Thor your out look of all the numbers and stuff on the motor is a bit off so I'll sort that for you as no one else has as far as I can see.

If for example you choose a G80-10t motor for a rocket which has 80 newtons of thrust the sum below has to be used to figure out what the weight it can handle. For safety you have to use a 5-1 ratio here.

Sum is as below:
80 divided by 4.45 = 17.98 divide it again by the 5-1 ratio
17.98 divided by 5 = 3.59 Lbs of weight.

The 3.59 Lbs of weight is the maximum lift off weight that the rocket motor can handle safely. If you adhere to this sum and the rocket is built sound and stable you should have fun.

The 10 t at the end of the numbers on the motor is the delay time in the motor before an ejection charge goes off to deploy the recovery parachute. Motors come with different delay times which you have to match to the rocket speed and at which point it is slow enough that when the deployment happens it doesnt rip the chute off or worse.

A G80-10t in a 3.5 Lbs rocket might have reached its peak of altatude and be returning to earth at speed before the deployment happens where if it was a half pound rocket it would go far higher and much faster in speed. This is due to the thrust to weight . Drag is a big factor to where if you put a G80 in a 30mm rocket its going to be light and fast. If like me , I put a G80 motor in a 3" rocket it was still fast but hit apogee at about 1500 feet and the 10 second delay was off a little bit as the rocket was returning to earth but no damage happened as it had only lost about 100 feet. Hope all this helps with understanding the motor stuff a little bit :)
 
Well, the rocket that had an Adam Savage dummy taped to the side of it at LDRS might be an inspiration...
 
Well, the rocket that had an Adam Savage dummy taped to the side of it at LDRS might be an inspiration...

Yeah, the first impression I got from the OP was LDRS project for 2013. At least Bill's rocket was actually a rocket.
 
GUYS, really??? MODS, please remove this thread. This is insanity in the making and TRA and the hobby in general needs to distance itself from it. It really saddens me that ANYONE is giving this joker advice.
 
GUYS, really??? MODS, please remove this thread. This is insanity in the making and TRA and the hobby in general needs to distance itself from it. It really saddens me that ANYONE is giving this joker advice.

And launching a porta-potty isn't? Dude,relax.
 
And launching a porta-potty isn't? Dude,relax.



There is a big differance between launching these oddrocs at a sanctioned launch and someone wanting to stuff a bunch of motors in an object and flying it where ???? At sanctioned launches all the permits are in place, the launch field is properly sized, and the "objects" are flown by certified members of a club.
 
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