Question about spray painting.

[samb]

Spend as much as you want on a can. Technique is important. Good tips given here regardless of the brand.

 

[Nathan]

2K is nasty for breathing or skin. Not a good beginners paint

That's true. 2K is catalyzed urethane which should not be sprayed without a fresh air breathing system. And no exposed skin.

 

[dr wogz]

If I may derail the conversation slightly..

A friend & I were talking about rattle cans vs. a spray gun vs getting a proper professional painter (Body shop) to paint a rocket.

For a typical HPR (4" dia, 72" long):
I figure 4 - 6 rattle cans, so $40 - $60
Spray gun & paint may be 2/3 that cost (paint only), but the set up & cleaning take longer. They are [potentially] better results..

What do body shops charge? Is there a set up fee for each colour? What about masking? Clear coats included?

 

[Banzai88]

What do body shops charge? Is there a set up fee for each colour? What about masking? Clear coats included?

Depends ENTIRELY on what you're wanting to do and the level of 'prep' that's been done before you show up....as well as the interest that the shop has in it.

I have one Maaco that I deal with, the owner likes 'extra' projects like gun stocks, rockets, whatever. He schedules them around what colors that they already have going on at the time, so that cuts down on booth time and other prep. Mostly I bring stuff in already sanded smooth and primed, then 600 grit wet sanded.....and his boys do the rest. Simple 1 color and clear basecoat/clear coat I'm paying in the $100-200 range (4-6 foot tall fiberglass 3-4 inch diameter). I pay a little more to get 2 color like stripes on the fins, etc.

What I pay is a bargain because of that constraint, so it may be weeks before something needs paint in the color that I want...but once it does, I need to be Johnny on the Spot to get it there ready to mask and spray or I miss out.

Most shops quoted me over $350 for the same thing, but I can basically get any color I want, anytime if I'm willing to pay more.

 

[dr wogz]

Sweet, thanks John Parker, er, Banzai!

 

[OverTheTop]

What do body shops charge? Is there a set up fee for each colour? What about masking? Clear coats included?

I had a mate of mine who owns a panelbeater shop paint my Nike Smoke in whatever white he had. I have had him do a couple of rockets over the years and he doesn't charge me. Good work for the apprentices, and if I am not too fussy on the paint they can use whatever is laying around.



I did ask a local panelbeater shop what they would charge and it was quoted as $400 for a 4"/7' rocket .

 

[XrayLizard]

My possibly useless advice to OP:
Just use dulpicolor for now. Until u have your technique down pat.
The difference between a can of duplicolor and a can that sprays like an airbrush will be day and night.
I have 3 airbrushes.. no actually about 5...
Two are spray guns.
Those take a lot more practice. Much more. Think”baby steps”
However... it is entirely possible that the airbrush style cans will “fit you” better... everyone is different lol.
Order just one can perhaps

 

[OverTheTop]

I have had good results with Duplicolor.

 

[prfesser]

I have one Maaco that I deal with, the owner likes 'extra' projects like gun stocks, rockets, whatever. He schedules them around what colors that they already have going on at the time, so that cuts down on booth time and other prep. Mostly I bring stuff in already sanded smooth and primed, then 600 grit wet sanded.....and his boys do the rest. Simple 1 color and clear basecoat/clear coat I'm paying in the $100-200 range (4-6 foot tall fiberglass 3-4 inch diameter). I pay a little more to get 2 color like stripes on the fins, etc.

This. If you aren't extremely particular about the specific color desired...professional results at a bargain price (sometimes, FREE!). I really need to get familiar with a body shop or two in this town.

Best -- Terry

 

[Jay Rairigh]

The lacquer tip sounds like a winner. I'll look for the Montana brand. There are a couple craft stores around here that might carry it, otherwise I'll order it.
Thanks guys. I think this puts me on the right track. If my next rocket looks bad, I have no excuse.

SSC, Guiry's in Colorado carries the Montana Gold paints.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I find that I get more wrinkles in the morning when it's more humid. Summer is finally ending so may not be much of a problem anymore.

I'm only LPR so I use the dowel in the nozzle and hold it horizontal. The can has to be as vertical as possible. The MPR guys use the pig on a spit method. I have no clue what the HPR guys use, house paint sprayer?

Sometimes the paint comes out like cottage cheese. You can shake the can until you get carpal tunnel in the wrist or you can soak the spray can in hot tap water for a few minutes to try and break it up. Please don't boil the can...

My main issue is that the hardware stores here never seem to have the same product for more than a month. As soon as I find a product that I like, I can't find it anymore. The only lacquer spray paints I could find were in black and white which becomes a compatibility issue when I need to paint a fin with an enamel.

I've given up on clear coat paints and just use Pledge Floor Gloss. Haven't had a mishap yet (except the time I couldn't get the NC off the mini V2).

 

[Banzai88]

I find that I get more wrinkles in the morning when it's more humid. Summer is finally ending so may not be much of a problem anymore.

I'm only LPR so I use the dowel in the nozzle and hold it horizontal. The can has to be as vertical as possible. The MPR guys use the pig on a spit method. I have no clue what the HPR guys use, house paint sprayer?

Sometimes the paint comes out like cottage cheese. You can shake the can until you get carpal tunnel in the wrist or you can soak the spray can in hot tap water for a few minutes to try and break it up. Please don't boil the can...

My main issue is that the hardware stores here never seem to have the same product for more than a month. As soon as I find a product that I like, I can't find it anymore. The only lacquer spray paints I could find were in black and white which becomes a compatibility issue when I need to paint a fin with an enamel.

I've given up on clear coat paints and just use Pledge Floor Gloss. Haven't had a mishap yet (except the time I couldn't get the NC off the mini V2).

Atmospheric conditions ALWAYS matter, even with lacquer. It just seems that lacquers are more tolerant of a wider range of conditions in general.

For larger MPR and HPR pieces, I see a lot of guys use a broom handle across two saw horses, or a PVC stand in a cheap spray booth (such as an Ikea Vuku or WalMart equivalent). Whatever works, sometimes in the garage with ventilation, sometimes outside.

One of the biggest 'problems' with enamel rattle cans in general are the nozzles and valve. They're not the greatest of designs, and are pretty much 'one shot' use items overall. That's one of the things that you're paying for with artist lacquers like Montana........amazing can valve that never seems to go bad, and a nozzle that's not only properly suited to the paint, but for $5 you can have a pack of 5-7 other nozzles to match what you're doing perfectly! AND...you can clean them and re-use them indefinitely. One rattle can of Montana is not cheap, but it covers in one coat and one can is enough for two coats on a 4 inch diameter 5 foot tall rocket. AND there's a compatible clear that never wrinkles......

The rattle can lacquers that most folks are using are automotive paints.......pick up in any/most car parts stores. Many also sell the quarts of pre-thinned DupliColor Paint Shop, which flows quite nicely though the cheap Harbor Freight gun, but that's whole threads in and of itself (and probably beyond the scope of beginner forums).

 

[David_Stack]

Curious, my last instance of spraying Duplicolor Lacquer clear has resulted in a finish that is still a bit 'tacky', days after it was applied. I don't think the finish is so soft as to pick up fingerprints, but it just doesn't seem as hard as it should be.

Sprayed on a day with temps in the upper 70's, humidity I don't think was overly humid, sunny throughout the day, 6:00 pm. Base coat paints were also Duplicolor lacquer that had applied a week prior.

Can was shaken for in excess of 5 mins before use, and had been used previously without issue. The only thing different this time was that I heated the can in a pan of hot (not boiling) water, cycling 'heat soak' with shaking. I do this normally, but this time the water was hotter than I had allowed it to get previously (the can was almost uncomfortably hot to the touch).

Is there any chance that the lacquer was heated to a degree that changed it, such that it does not want to cure to a hard finish?

r/
Dave

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Atmospheric conditions ALWAYS matter, even with lacquer. It just seems that lacquers are more tolerant of a wider range of conditions in general.

For larger MPR and HPR pieces, I see a lot of guys use a broom handle across two saw horses, or a PVC stand in a cheap spray booth (such as an Ikea Vuku or WalMart equivalent). Whatever works, sometimes in the garage with ventilation, sometimes outside.

One of the biggest 'problems' with enamel rattle cans in general are the nozzles and valve. They're not the greatest of designs, and are pretty much 'one shot' use items overall. That's one of the things that you're paying for with artist lacquers like Montana........amazing can valve that never seems to go bad, and a nozzle that's not only properly suited to the paint, but for $5 you can have a pack of 5-7 other nozzles to match what you're doing perfectly! AND...you can clean them and re-use them indefinitely. One rattle can of Montana is not cheap, but it covers in one coat and one can is enough for two coats on a 4 inch diameter 5 foot tall rocket. AND there's a compatible clear that never wrinkles......

The rattle can lacquers that most folks are using are automotive paints.......pick up in any/most car parts stores. Many also sell the quarts of pre-thinned DupliColor Paint Shop, which flows quite nicely though the cheap Harbor Freight gun, but that's whole threads in and of itself (and probably beyond the scope of beginner forums).

Agree with all. I suspect the ergo nozzle on the Rusto cans have something to do with the splattering.

What I like about lacquers is that it dries so quick, it rarely runs.

 

[caveduck]

I definitely agree with using Duplicolor lacquers if you want to stick with rattlecans. Low cost and good results. I don't use Rusto/Krylon enamels for anything I care about. Full dry times for enamels are measured in weeks, and they are not anywhere near as good for wet sanding and polishing. The surface is relatively tough though, just because it stays somewhat rubbery. Lacquers flash out a lot faster, so you can build up a coat if you want.

I switched to spray guns and airbrushes with 2-part paint (mainly Klass-Kote but any automotive stuff works great) decades ago. Klass-Kote primer is pure magic. I've stayed away from urethane spray because of the isocyanate hazards...thanks Banzai88 for the pointer to the Max 2k; not having to bench-mix removes a lot of the handling risk, I might actually try that stuff (with a painter's bunny suit of course). Be aware, it's $25/can from Amazon, 48 hour life once activated, with a few days extension in a freezer to slow down the catalyzation.

 

[XrayLizard]

Klass kote questions:
How far will a pint container go?
Do you thin it?
Do you use it only on larger Rockets?
Can you estimate how much coverage from say, one ounce combined color and catalyst?
and the 40k question... cleanup procedure lol