Quadradent - a somewhat experimental build

[les]

I was hesitant to start this thread now. I only have a week before I'll have to "lay down my tools" for a 3 week gap. But I'm very excited to make progress, and to get some input from all you folks.

I had been discussing an idea with a specific kit manufacturer about a concept I had for their unique offerings.
The manufacturer has had some supplier issues and has tried something new.
So this is an experimental "One Of" kit (at least at this time)

Suddenly, a box arrived with various parts. NOTE - he also included several backup copies as the assembly process is a bit experimental. Any guesses what this may become? The thread title gives a hint.

 

[kuririn]

New Way version of the Estes Trident.

 

[les]

New Way version of the Estes Trident.

CORRECT!
Although one question is whether to use just 2 tubes or go with 4. More to be discussed on that later.
Yes, Rich has been having issues getting his square tubes, so he came up with a DIY solution

The dado'ed mat board pieces get assembled into a square tube.
Here I have 2 pieces in an angle iron (well, aluminum) to get a good 90 degree alignment. Continued for the third side.

 

[kuririn]

Do the ejection gasses get routed through the smaller tubes like the original?
Might be problematic with so many dado joints.

 

[les]

Rich had a concern on the mechanical integrity of the long, thin tubes. You may have noticed the square dowels in the first post. His concept was to have the tubes to duct the ejection charge, but also have the dowels for structure. Something like this.



I was concerned by the aesthetics of the additional dowel, and instead tried this. I purchased some 1/8" dowel. And strange pricing. A 3' long dowel was $1.49. A 4' long dowel was only $0.99. Both are 1/8" diameter Poplar wood. This didn't make sense to me......
Anyway, I have glued the dowel in 2 of the corners. My first tube has both on the "bottom" piece where the porting ducts are. Basically, I glued up a U shape and installed the two dowels.


My next one I plan to make two 2-sided pieces, add the dowel to each, then glue those pieces together. Basically, build two V's, each with a dowel, then glue together.

Does anyone feel one approach is better than the other??

 

[les]

Do the ejection gasses get routed through the smaller tubes like the original?
Might be problematic with so many dado joints.

Actually, I was amazed at the accuracy of the dados. Nice tight fit the entire length.
Plus I want to do something - but you are getting ahead of me....

 

[kuririn]

Can a BT-5 fit inside the matboard tubes?
Maybe port to the BT-5?

 

[les]

Rich sent me multiple nose cones to select from for the large tubes. The small tube cones are "origami" DIY. There are both short (for the top) and long (for the bottom) cones
A square piece is provided for the end. My construction technique was to apply glue to the inside of the cone, and along the length of the joining edge. I would wrap the cone on three sides around the square, use a tool to push down on the square to ensure it was flush with the bottom, then close the last side and hold for a couple of minutes for the glue to grab.




Results

 

[les]

Can a BT-5 fit inside the matboard tubes?
Maybe port to the BT-5?

Will need to check on the next set. With my added dowels, the answer is no.
Also a little concerned with getting an airtight seal between the BT5/Mat board/Main Tube combo

 

[les]

A BT-5 will NOT fit inside the matboard tubes

 

[neil_w]

I love this so much.

 

[les]

Tube 2 built as two V's. The dowels have been glued in at the vertices.
PRO - a lot easier applying glue and dowel than the first U built tube.
Next I need to see if I am going to "pay" trying to glue these together.
With the U the 4th side is basically in one dimension.
With the 2 V I need to glue in 2 dimensions

 

[ZEDL1]

Kuririn, you are very good...

 

[Hobie1dog]

 

[loopy]

New Way does such amazing stuff! Can't wait to see how this turns out!

 

[mjennings]

Very neat. Haven't picked up any of NewWay's kits yet but this will be tempting.

 

[les]

So, it was no more difficult to glue the 2 - V sections together than gluing the top of the U on. So now just need to decide which is better....

Also next major decision:
1) Use just two tubes with the internal round dowel in 2 corners
2) Use the two tubes plus the square dowels for "structural reinforcement"
3) Upgrade to Four tubes (be a true Quadradent). Fortunately, Rich sent me 4 sets. (note - pix only has 3 tubes, and third tube is presently held together with rubber bands)



The Quad Tubes with the internal dowels should be sufficient from a mechanical structural point of view.
It also provides more paths for the ejection charge. The original Trident had 3 BT-5 tubes. This provided a net 0.69 sq in for the ejection gasses. These square tubes only provide about 0.40 sq in. If I go full quad, that ups to 0.80 sq in.

However, I am a bit concerned it masks the main nose cones. But looking in from an angle it is not too bad


So what does everyone think? Option 1, 2, or 3??????????

Thanks

 

[les]

Surprised no one has provided an opinion between Options 1, 2, and 3.
I doubt I will do Option 2.
Still deciding between Options 1 & 3.
Since I am under a tight schedule, I have started building the 3rd tube for Option 3 (just in case).

 

[Bluegrass Rocket]

Since seeing your photos, I like the idea of just the 2 long tubes. That version allows you to see the inside cones better. You could expand the ports a little. I like the reinforcement with the dowels, good idea.

Rick

 

[mjennings]

I flew with someone years ago who had a duo-dent. Think he called it Pluto Probe. Not sure if it was a kit but it fley nicely, can't remember if it was 3 or 4 fins. Is the forward BT smaller than the Aft BT or is that just the camera angle? All 3 would be neat.

 

[les]

I flew with someone years ago who had a duo-dent. Think he called it Pluto Probe. Not sure if it was a kit but it fley nicely, can't remember if it was 3 or 4 fins. Is the forward BT smaller than the Aft BT or is that just the camera angle? All 3 would be neat.

Estes had a 2-tube version of the Trident, the Trident II. It had 4 fins.

And the forward and aft tubes are the same size, except for their length

 

[les]

Since seeing your photos, I like the idea of just the 2 long tubes. That version allows you to see the inside cones better. You could expand the ports a little. I like the reinforcement with the dowels, good idea.

I just wish I could come up with a good way to get dowels into all 4 corners. The dowels are, of course, not straight. Clamping with the angle iron was required to get it into the corner while the glue was setting....

 

[Bluegrass Rocket]

You could glue on braces corner to corner, as in a matboard type piece from one corner to another and then one a little father away opposite corner to corner.

 

[les]

I tried putting glue on a dowel and just sliding it in. Complete failure. The glue caused the dowel to warp even more, so only the ends (where I could reach) made contact. The rest of the dowel arched away from the corner. The glue had not fully set so I was able to pull it out. It did remove a layer of paper from the matboard near the ends

You could glue on braces corner to corner, as in a matboard type piece from one corner to another and then one a little father away opposite corner to corner.

The question gets into locating the angles. Before the tube is assembled I have to line up the edges properly before attaching the adjacent side. Too far one way and I block the side. Too far the other and I have a gap and the brace does nothing...

Plus, as I previously stated, the area available for the ejection gases is less than the real Trident kit. Blocking part of the tube further reduces the area. Of course, the dowels also reduce the area for the gasses.....

 

[BABAR]

Do you NEED the space of BOTH tubes for confident ejection?

Run a dowel down one for structural integrity. Use the other for ejection.

It does increase the pressure on the single tube.

 

[les]

Do you NEED the space of BOTH tubes for confident ejection?

Don't know. I was looking over a review of the Gooneydent on Rocket Reviews. It had 3 BT-5 tubes. An overenthusiastic ejection charge blew things apart. And this has less ducting....

 

[les]

The folded nose cones for the small tubes leaves a "gap" on each edge.
My thought is to make a card stock shroud to hide it.


I laid the cone on the paper and traced the outline, then rolled it and traced, etc. You can see my first attempt in the background.
I just taped it together, inserted the mat board cone, and balanced it on the square tube for the photo.

 

[BABAR]

Cheat.

Do rear eject with streamer.

No ducting, put the dowels inside the outboard tubes for structural integrity.

Use nose cone weight, you don’t need wadding , and a very loose nose cone and loosely packed chute.

Ejection.

Rear pod deploys streamer, noses over. Starts to fall, with relatively high drag on rear due to streamer.

Nose cone falls out and pulls out laundry.

 

[les]

Cheat.

Do rear eject with streamer.

No ducting,

Without the Vent
It ain't a 'Dent

I must remain true to the Duct..........

 

[neil_w]

Very neat. Haven't picked up any of NewWay's kits yet but this will be tempting.

Strongly recommend trying one of the existing kits (e.g. Angled Invader). Very high quality, fun builds.