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jqavins said:
How do you know he isn't?
Click to expand...
I shot competitively with the Navy for 11 years, twice with teams that won #1 Atlantic Fleet and #1 All Navy, and have instructed a tremendous number of Sailors both enlisted and officer basic weapons handling and marksmanship. "Gun Shoots" out at sea on aviation capable ships are held either on the flight deck or on a lowered elevator, and non-aviation ships usually on the fantail, sometimes with targets (qualification day) or without ("FAM", or weapons familiarization training).

For new shooters, or those unfamiliar with weapons in general, we'll often put a stabilizing hand on their shoulder so that we have a touch point to be able to physically intervene immediately if necessary.

No, it doesn't matter that it's just 5.56, nor if it's 9mm, or even if it's a .22LR rimfire. Some folks are simply not accustomed to tools moving about in their hands, and some folks have just a few too many hours studying John Wick to allow them to use certain things unsupervised......until they prove themselves otherwise (and even then never unsupervised)!

This photo is either blatant stupidity, or really terrible photoshopping, and any derision is well deserved. 50/50 on that, since I've seen BOTH occur in my endeavors with the Navy marksmanship program........and even been the ignominious recipient of my own silver bullet (if you know, you know).
 
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Banzai88 said:
I shot competitively with the Navy for 11 years, twice with teams that won #1 Atlantic Fleet and #1 All Navy, and have instructed a tremendous number of Sailors both enlisted and officer basic weapons handling and marksmanship. "Gun Shoots" out at sea on aviation capable ships are held either on the flight deck or on a lowered elevator, and non-aviation ships usually on the fantail, sometimes with targets (qualification day) or without ("FAM", or weapons familiarization training).

For new shooters, or those unfamiliar with weapons in general, we'll often put a stabilizing hand on their shoulder so that we have a touch point to be able to physically intervene immediately if necessary.

No, it doesn't matter that it's just 5.56, nor if it's 9mm, or even if it's a .22LR rimfire. Some folks are simply not accustomed to tools moving about in their hands, and some folks have just a few too many hours studying John Wick to allow them to use certain things unsupervised......until proven otherwise!

This photo is either blatant stupidity, or really terrible photoshopping. 50/50 on that, since I've seen BOTH occur in my endeavors with the Navy marksmanship program........and even been the ignominious recipient of my own silver bullet (if you know, you know).
Click to expand...
I wonder if you’re jobs harder because the navy does less small arms shooting and more gun the size of a car shooting.
 
NTP2 said:
I wonder if you’re jobs harder because the navy does less small arms shooting and more gun the size of a car shooting.
Click to expand...
We (the Navy) have very few guns (if there are actually any left), that are larger than a 5" these days. Even still, those 5" are a lot of fun, too (I spent much of my early years in H2s doing ASW aboard a Knox class frigate, and spent more than a few hours with the GMGs up in the forward turret)!

And yes, always makes me hinky training new folks to get a 'gun card' to be qualified a deck watch station, and even hinkier doing the annual re-qualification shoots because at that point they 'think' they know how to handle it.....but 99.5% are not 'gun folks', have no personal firearms, and haven't shot a single round since qualifying last year. Oh, and with duty rotations being every 3-4 years, those gun quals expire at the foot of brow the day that Sailor checks out to execute orders to their new command, and shore duty gun card requirements are extremely rare outside of SpecWar/DevGru folks (the requirements of which I am only vaguely familiar with).

Folks tend to think that military members, even the Navy, that we're ALL qualified and proficient to a high degree with small arms. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Banzai88 said:
I shot competitively with the Navy for 11 years, twice with teams that won #1 Atlantic Fleet and #1 All Navy, and have instructed a tremendous number of Sailors both enlisted and officer basic weapons handling and marksmanship. "Gun Shoots" out at sea on aviation capable ships are held either on the flight deck or on a lowered elevator, and non-aviation ships usually on the fantail, sometimes with targets (qualification day) or without ("FAM", or weapons familiarization training).

For new shooters, or those unfamiliar with weapons in general, we'll often put a stabilizing hand on their shoulder so that we have a touch point to be able to physically intervene immediately if necessary.

No, it doesn't matter that it's just 5.56, nor if it's 9mm, or even if it's a .22LR rimfire. Some folks are simply not accustomed to tools moving about in their hands, and some folks have just a few too many hours studying John Wick to allow them to use certain things unsupervised......until they prove themselves otherwise (and even then never unsupervised)!

This photo is either blatant stupidity, or really terrible photoshopping, and any derision is well deserved. 50/50 on that, since I've seen BOTH occur in my endeavors with the Navy marksmanship program........and even been the ignominious recipient of my own silver bullet (if you know, you know).
Click to expand...

I had heard a rumor Decades ago that navy guards on watch on a ship were not allowed to have a round in the chamber on the past 45 1911s before the 9mm came to be used. This was told to me that too many holes were shot in the deck from misfires in holster or other during a draw; as 1911s take some used to for the 3 conditions of carry.

I considered it an old wife's tail but perhaps you know the truth ?
 
Art Upton said:
I had heard a rumor Decades ago that navy guards on watch on a ship were not allowed to have a round in the chamber on the past 45 1911s before the 9mm came to be used. This was told to me that too many holes were shot in the deck from misfires in holster or other during a draw; as 1911s take some used to for the 3 conditions of carry.

I considered it an old wife's tail but perhaps you know the truth ?
Click to expand...
Probably before my time, if true.

While the official transition to the Beretta was in 1985, in 1990 my ship and helo squadron had the 1911, the M9 Beretta, and more than a few relic S&W .38 Special revolvers as available sidearms for aviators (I had Temporary Flight Orders as an Inflight Technician/Dry Crewman). We also had the venerable M60 to carry mounted in the helicopter, and the ship had an additional compliment of M14 and M16 rifles, as well as the Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun. They also had a compliment of M203 and M79 grenade launchers.

Shipboard personnel at that time (then, as now) carried the M9, M16, or Mossberg (as appropriate to the watch station) while on post as deck watches.

Marine guards on the Naval Air Stations where I was stationed carried the same. Those Marines were later replaced by DoD rent-a-cops, later (including currently) augmented with Naval Security folks (rated Master at Arms) further augmented with Auxiliary Security Force (TAD billets drawn from other ratings given security and firearms training).

Never, ever ever ever in all my years was it ever policy NOT to have a round in the chamber of ANY weapon while on the watch station (or while transiting to or from said watch station, since we always loaded/unloaded a live round while pointed into the safety barrel in the armory). I retired in Jan 2015, and am aboard Navy ships pierside at home and abroad weekly, and I do not believe that that policy has ever changed.

In 26 years of active duty and carrying firearms on deck watches or aircrew, personal injury wise, I've seen more than a few shot feet(self and watch partner), legs, knee caps, and one shoulder through-and-through.....all from M9 pistols. In addition to that, I've seen 1 M9 slide strike tear through the cheek of one individual when the slide broke and flew back under recoil and struck the shooter.

At the Atlantic Fleet and All Navy pistol and rifle shoots (which by official policy were also training events), only EVER saw 1 accidental discharge with a pistol, and it was a 1911, and it involved a shooter that had no business being on the firing line in the first place. Never saw a personal injury more serious than 1911 slide bite at any shooting match while on active duty.

We can move to the Gun&Rockets thread, or hit me up DM so we keep laughing in the LOL picture thread.
 
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