open rocket gives 2 different apogees for same motor and rocket

[Lt72884]

You are not getting it.
Ask your friend for help. He is the smarter one.



Kid, stop blaming the software.
The user selects the motor and the desired ejection delay. If you don't know what that means, or did not realize that the delay may have defaulted to 0, then it's hardly software's fault.



Please tell me that you are not trying for ANY level of certification with level of comprehension?
Pretty please?

DUDE, your not helping at all.

Our entire team has tested it and version 15 picked a delay based on the the optimum delay time. It picked it for my other team mates using version 15. thats what auto populate means in software. it picks a value based on numbers it runs. My team mates did NOT choose the delay time when picking the rocket motor.
IE, with my LOC IV, if i use a H550ST, it PICKS the damn delay time for me. However, with a L2200G, i was unaware that it defaulted to zero, so please excuse me if the other motors did it for me. So please grow up and act a little bit more professional.

 

[rocketgeek101]

This thread has run its course, but for the record I manually set the delay when adding in the L2200 motor. I just tested and it defaults to a 0 sec delay in both v15 and the new beta version so your friend obviously knew to change the delay from zero.

 

[Lt72884]

What is this "auto-populate" business? When you add a new motor for simulation, you choose the delay. There are infinite possibilities.



Aren't you Level 1 and Level 2 in one day and now planning Level 3? You really don't know which altitude makes more sense?



Best bet is to stop and think about the simulation result and do some diagnosis before running to the forum for an easy answer. Isn't that what being an engineering student is all about?

You as well are not helping, of course i know which value makes more sense,
as i said to the other poster, when i pick other motors, it has a field for the time already picked for me..
here is a damn screenshot for you emotionally immature, unprofessional people.
just deal with it and stop being an ass
notice it says 14 seconds in the time. Im used to pen rocket picking the highest value for time. the L2200G and alot of other motors apparently default to ZERO, while others do not default to ZERO, such as alot of lvl 1 motors, SO ECUSE ME for not noticing it.

the image shows how OR automatically picked the value of 14 for me. Alot of motors auto populate that number.
that is what i mean by auto populate. some motors apparently do not pick a value for you, which is inconsistent with the behavior of the software. For whatever reason, my team mate has informed me that his does pick a number..

 

[Lt72884]

This thread has run its course, but for the record I manually set the delay when adding in the L2200 motor. I just tested and it defaults to a 0 sec delay in both v15 and the new beta version so your friend obviously knew to change the delay from zero.

he (the team mate) litterally just told me and showed me that he did not. so either he is lying to me or something odd is in fact happening. But still, the H550 does not default to ZERO nor do alot of other motors, so i was under the impression that this was normal behavior of the software, but its not. some motors apparently default to zero, and the ass hats can deal with it that i thought the motors would be consistent in choosing the time for me.. I mentioned it alot of times that the motors auto populate that damn field.
thanks to you, i was able to solve the problem and i made sure to say it at least 5 times in the previous comments.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I think the horse is dead and we can stop beating it.

How do know it’s dead?​

I just looks dead to me. Plus I’m tired of beating it.

It might be faking it.​

Well, it seems dead.

I’m going to keep beating it.​

Fine, beat it if you want, but I’m done.

You can’t just leave me to beat this thing myself.​

I’m just saying I’m over it at this point.

Well, this whole thing was your idea in the first place.​

Yeah, but I’m tired of beating this dead horse.

You haven’t actually convinced me it’s dead.​

Can we just move on?

No!​

 

[CalebJ]

Calling people emotionally immature and unprofessional when you are simultaneously asking them for help is remarkably short sighted.
Doing so when you are dead wrong is just absurd.

 

[Lt72884]

Calling people emotionally immature and unprofessional when you are simultaneously asking them for help is remarkably short sighted.
Doing so when you are dead wrong is just absurd.

The ones i called Emotionally immature and unprofessional were not helping. Nor was i dead wrong. Please read the posts again, and again, and again until you understand what i am saying. I have spelled it out many many many times. OPEN ROCKET auto selects delay times for alot of the motors, so when i picked the L2200G and it DID NOT auto select the number, i was unaware of what was happening. Rocketgeek politely informed me that it defaulted to 0 WAY before the others chimed in with their so called "help"

in fact, your previous comment was ridiculously inaccurate.
here, ill show you why. Attached is a video of how the delay charge usually has a number. yes some default to 0. With all the motors i WAS testing for my level 1 and 2, the time was auto selected, so i THOUGHT this was the default behavior of the software to be consistent in keeping that behavior, however, i did not know the L2200g defaulted to 0 so i never looked for that. On my team mates open rocket, for whatever reason, he says he does not have to select a time. He said it selected 18 seconds, but yet mine selected 0.
Yes, i know i was not correct, because i was getting the WRONG VALUES, so i knew something was not correct. Luckily rocket geek was kind enough to inform me that it probably defaulted to 0 and some motors do that. So i checked it out HOURS ago, 9:44 am, when i fixed the issue and people are still bitchin about it.

 

[dhbarr]

Yup, im a level 2 as of yesterday
your just having a hard time reading my posts, and im sorry about that. You are also very emotionally immature

Probably best to follow your earlier plan and let this thread drop.

Congrats on your L2.

 

[Lt72884]

Probably best to follow your earlier plan and let this thread drop.

Congrats on your L2.

Thank you, i appreciate it. It was a very successful launch yesterday with all 3 rockets certifying.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I sure hope this discussion continues tomorrow!

I think the main point is that the wrong delay time gives you a bad sim, and you should always check the delay when adding a motor because the default may not be what you want. That principle holds no matter what version of OR you are using. And I think everyone understands that now. Everyone on the same page? Is that horse now dead?

Usually what I do in OR is pick a delay I know is probably too long. Then I run the sim and check the ideal delay as calculated by the sim. Then I go back and edit the motor and correct the delay based on the system’s ideal delay. Your options are usually a second or so shorter or longer than the ideal, so you pick whatever is closest, or base it on whether you think the rocket might peak at a lower or higher apogee than the sim for some reason.

That works great for most motors, but once you get up into K, L, M motors, you’ll probably be using electronic deployment, so just pick “none”. I’m surprised there even is an option for a motor eject delay for an L motor. Do Ls have adjustable motor delays? I thought those phased out beyond K motors, but I’ve never flown an L. Also why is there a zero delay option for any motor that is not a black powder booster motor? When would that ever apply? An L motor with a zero-second delay? I don’t think that’s really an option, is it? If you are using electronics, and the motor has an adjustable motor delay, and you want to do a motor backup, then I’d run the sim with a “none” delay, check the sim for the ideal delay recommendation, then edit the motor with a delay that is at least a second or two longer than the recommended ideal.

 

[Lt72884]

I sure hope this discussion continues tomorrow!

I think the main point is that the wrong delay time gives you a bad sim, and you should always check the delay when adding a motor because the default may not be what you want. That principle holds no matter what version of OR you are using. And I think everyone understands that now. Everyone on the same page? Is that horse now dead?

Usually what I do in OR is pick a delay I know is probably too long. Then I run the sim and check the ideal delay as calculated by the sim. Then I go back and edit the motor and correct the delay based on the system’s ideal delay. Your options are usually a second or so shorter or longer than the ideal, so you pick whatever is closest, or base it on whether you think the rocket might peak at a lower or higher apogee than the sim for some reason.

That works great for most motors, but once you get up into K, L, M motors, you’ll probably be using electronic deployment, so just pick “none”. I’m surprised there even is an option for a motor eject delay for an L motor. Do Ls have adjustable motor delays? I thought those phased out beyond K motors, but I’ve never flown an L. Also why is there a zero delay option for any motor that is not a black powder booster motor? When would that ever apply? An L motor with a zero-second delay? I don’t think that’s really an option, is it? If you are using electronics, and the motor has an adjustable motor delay, and you want to do a motor backup, then I’d run the sim with a “none” delay, check the sim for the ideal delay recommendation, then edit the motor with a delay that is at least a second or two longer than the recommended ideal.

that is usualy what i have done. When i was testing my lvl 1 and 2 rocket, both the H550 and J270 motors, open rocket picked the longest delay time for me automatically, then it calculated the optimum delay under the "flight simulations" tab. So i was used to open rocket picking the time for me so i never checked the delay time tab.

For the L2200 motor, after learning that it defaulted to zero, i checked and 0 is the lowest number, there is no "none" option for me unless its listed somewhere else.
Whats really odd, when i open up my LOC IV file and select the L2200 motor, it auto picked 14 seconds for the rocket... but for the wildman extreme, it picked zero? super strange. Possibly something in the file for electronics.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I’ve ended up loading motors with odd delays a few times, and I usually catch it with a warning on a high deployment speed or a strange apogee. And my usual practice is to just go back and edit the motor with the recommended optimum delay.

I’ve never exactly understood the default delay that is shown in the drop-down after you pick the motor. I’ve never thought OR was “picking” a delay or that the default was a recommendation by the program. I often load multiple motors in a row, so I’ve wondered if the default is the same or close to the last motor loaded. I don’t really know how it works. And it really doesn’t matter much how the default works, because part of the process for dialing in your sims should always be to double-check the motor delays and the recommended optimum delays and make any necessary corrections.

About the “none” option, I think even if “none” does not appear in the drop-down, you can actually type the word “none” into the field. I can’t double-check that right now, but I think you can do that. Also, the delays in the drop-down are usually in 2-second increments, because the factory delay drill stops are in 2-second increments. But I think you can type any number you want in the field. People make their own skinny spacer washers for their drills so they can make 1-second increments, so I think OR lets you type in 7, even if the drop-down skips from 6 to 8. (I think.)

 

[Lt72884]

I’ve ended up loading motors with odd delays a few times, and I usually catch it with a warning on a high deployment speed or a strange apogee. And my usual practice is to just go back and edit the motor with the recommended optimum delay.

I’ve never exactly understood the default delay that is shown in the drop-down after you pick the motor. I’ve never thought OR was “picking” a delay or that the default was a recommendation by the program. I often load multiple motors in a row, so I’ve wondered if the default is the same or close to the last motor loaded. I don’t really know how it works. And it really doesn’t matter much how the default works, because part of the process for dialing in your sims should always be to double-check the motor delays and the recommended optimum delays and make any necessary corrections.

About the “none” option, I think even if “none” does not appear in the drop-down, you can actually type the word “none” into the field. I can’t double-check that right now, but I think you can do that. Also, the delays in the drop-down are usually in 2-second increments, because the factory delay drill stops are in 2-second increments. But I think you can type any number you want in the field. People make their own skinny spacer washers for their drills so they can make 1-second increments, so I think OR lets you type in 7, even if the drop-down skips from 6 to 8. (I think.)

thank you very much for this information. It has been noted and written down for the future, if i dont lose the note book haha

 

[Voyager1]

i posted the link to the exact file he was using and i was using. He downloaded it and opened it in OR 15.03, made no changes to the original file, then i opened it in version 22.02, and noticed a huge altitude difference. For whatever reason, OR 15 added the ejection delay but my version did not when i added the L2200G motor.
since the 22.02 is beta, could that be the reason it did not add the time?

Don't assume that different versions will behave the same way. Always check your parameters and sim settings, particularly ejection delay, deployment events and launch conditions.

 

[Lt72884]

Don't assume that different versions will behave the same way. Always check your parameters and sim settings, particularly ejection delay, deployment events and launch conditions.

EXACTLY. Thank you for sharing this. I have even noticed that with my LOC IV, if i load the L2200G in the config, it will automatically pick 14 seconds as the delay time, just like it did with all the other motors i tested. BUT when i used the wildman rocket, and loaded the same L2200G motor, i thought it added the delay time just like the L2200G on the LOC IV did, so i never checked the delay time until rocket geek said it probably defaulted to 0. So even with other rockets, the motors can load differently. Sometimes it auto picks, sometimes it doesnt.
thanks

 

[Buckeye]

that is usualy what i have done. When i was testing my lvl 1 and 2 rocket, both the H550 and J270 motors, open rocket picked the longest delay time for me automatically, then it calculated the optimum delay under the "flight simulations" tab. So i was used to open rocket picking the time for me so i never checked the delay time tab.

For the L2200 motor, after learning that it defaulted to zero, i checked and 0 is the lowest number, there is no "none" option for me unless its listed somewhere else.
Whats really odd, when i open up my LOC IV file and select the L2200 motor, it auto picked 14 seconds for the rocket... but for the wildman extreme, it picked zero? super strange. Possibly something in the file for electronics.

Oye. Stop it already. OpenRocket is not "picking" anything as you insist, and certainly not the optimum delay as you mentioned in a previous post. (Optimum delay comes later, after the calculations.) The drop down box is merely populated with a default, but YOU have to choose the appropriate value as evidenced by the down arrow. Yes, zero is a valid value. So is "None", and any number you care to type in the box.



Here is a hint, Junior.

The drop down box is populated with delay times specified in the eng file. Here, for the J270, delays of 14, 12, 10, 8, 6 seconds are defined and will go into the drop down box. Apparently the first value, 14, gets displayed as the default.



For the L2200, the author listed the delays in reverse order, so zero is now first and OpenRocket displays that as the default in the drop down.



Your friend,
Asshat #2