Old dude now grumpy with continued D12 3 CATOS: ESTES, WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

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Daddyisabar

Oddroc scum. Mindsimmer.
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Old dude picked up 2 packs of D12 3 at local Hobby Lobby in Denver. COSROCS had announced a Sunday launch on the beautiful green lauch site outside Peyton Colorado. So much fun to lauch with those guys at the Ranch. Always have to put you best foot forward when launching with a "sister club" down South. Loaded up the Sunward SU 47 for like it's 25th flight. 5-4-3-2-1 kaboom! Darn it! Another CATO, but a newbie got good video on his I phone. Fireball and all. Severe hibachi on body tube end, elastic burned through. Oh well, stuff happens, set that motor pack aside.

Open another pack and fly another Sunward airplane rocket just fine. Put the second motor from the pack in my old scratcher Corsair and kaboom! Some inner Estes cursing ensued, impure thoughts abound. She is a tough ole bird. Had to remove motor with pliers. A good blackening on the inside, half the motor block gone but no significant damage, just a lot of soot.

2 outta 3 from two new packs, 0123 and 0323. Mess reports filed BUT COME ON. Way too many failures this year. Blowing up many so many rockets in public is getting embarrassing. It is too the point of harming my interest in using mighty D12 motors. LPR fear is making me grumpy. Fear is the mind killer. 16 years a BAR and this is worse than ever. Worse than E9's and E12's of the past

Not in the mood for Gaslighting "oh they are being dropped by kids in the store, or oh they are being frozen during shipping." No, always like that in the past and never this many CATO's or weak to no ejection charges on D12 3. Noticed the recall on 13mm motors. There is even a bigger manufacturing issue here with 24mm.

Am I turning into just another grumpy old dude posting everywhere saying I won't use those motors? Where has my inner Estes shill gone? Yes, just a grumpy old dude. GET OFF MY LAWN!
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Too many bad dates!
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Breaking up with Estes is hard to do.
 
Ouch.

Have you tried the Q-Jet or RMS Ds? If so are those generally any better on this specifically? Overa?
The early Q jets have had clay nozzle problems, they say that is fixed. Not the easiest to light with delicate starters supplied.

Used 100's of AT 24/40 reloads. Never and issue. Just that eventually you will loose a case even when taped in.

Used around a thousand of 24mm D12, E9. E12 over the years, had my share on CATOS and a few ejection less motors
But nothing like the past year, failure rate way higher. Manufacturing, QA issues.

Love the Estes BP for silly oddroc clusters, but maybe no more. Confidence is key.

Do not like the Cesseroni one grain 24mm. Standardized delays way too long to cut down to short delay times I need.
 
We have done some analysis on these events since we've been having CATOs at our local club as well with Estes D and E black powder motors. Our best guess is that they are using some cheaper clay which doesn't seem to hold the pressure as well as it should. So the nozzle blows out and kaboom. Our solution has been: Mix up some epoxy and form a little ring around the clay nozzle, gluing it to the cardboard rim of the motor. One of our guys who has been doing this religiously hasn't had a CATO since that time (knock on wood), so anecdotal evidence is that it's effective.
 
We have done some analysis on these events since we've been having CATOs at our local club as well with Estes D and E black powder motors. Our best guess is that they are using some cheaper clay which doesn't seem to hold the pressure as well as it should. So the nozzle blows out and kaboom. Our solution has been: Mix up some epoxy and form a little ring around the clay nozzle, gluing it to the cardboard rim of the motor. One of our guys who has been doing this religiously hasn't had a CATO since that time (knock on wood), so anecdotal evidence is that it's effective.
I will have to mention this at DART tomorrow if I make it out there.
 
Hmm... my last two D12 flights also ended in fireballs. The most recent one was this past weekend, toasting my 6-year-old daughters rocket she named 'pony'. I can fix it, but she wasn't too happy.

The nozzle was intact, but the bp 'slug' separated and blew it's way up through the rocket
 

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Hmm... my last two D12 flights also ended in fireballs. The most recent one was this past weekend, toasting my 6-year-old daughters rocket she named 'pony'. I can fix it, but she wasn't too happy.

The nozzle was intact, but the bp 'slug' separated and blew it's way up through the rocket
Usually the nozzle blows out. When one motor goes bad in a pack I will only use the other motor in an expendable rocket. You never know. Ironic, If I give the other motor away they tend to work fine!
 
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