Mystery 3-stage rocket

[Kirk G]

A friend in our rocketry club has been cleaning out a vacated family home, and comes across older LPR kits, rockets and support materials that he has forgotten or has out-grown long ago. As a result, he has been generously donating them to me at various times.

Most recently, he has given me a very tall, thin 3-stage rocket that has never been flown. He assumes that the kit is at least ten years old, making it pre-2006. It measures 3 feet long. Each of the three sets of three fins, measures 3 inches wide, and 2.5 inches tall. Each stage is aprox. 3 inches tall. (Total number of fins is nine.)

The motors used in this 3-stage rocket would be the small 18 mm Estes rocket motors, but the values are not known. There are no instructions, and no name for this rocket. There are no decals. I assume the rocket would take B6-0, B6-0 and B6-6 or something similar.

The recovery system is a simple orange streamer. The rocket appears to have a plastic nose cone, and the body tube is composed of at least two body tubes joined together. The top one was 12.5 inches tall, and bottom one was 18 inches. Two large launch lugs measure 2.75 inches for a larger rod.

Does anyone have any ideas on what this might be? I'd like some guidance on what his rockets might need to fly regularly, safely and stable.

 

[ClusterBomb]

Comanche-3?

 

[Kirk G]

I've just searched for images of the Comanche-3 rocket, and a close-up of the fins has convinced me that this is the rocket that I've received.

I am re-gluing at least one of the bottom-most fins back on the final stage...and there's a third, missing fin that I am reconstructing from a scrap piece of balsa.

As a result, I have sealed the new fin, primed it with white, and now am puzzling over what to paint that final fin. The entire rocket is royal blue, which might stand out against the sky blue, or if found laying in a field of hay or grasses.

But the possibility of painting the new fin another contrasting color is appealing.
I am thinking perhaps it should be red or orange...not only for contrast,but to be seen if laying in the grass of the launch field.

Do you have any suggestions?

And does anyone have any specific info on what rocket motors are recommended for the Comanche-3 rocket?

 

[ClusterBomb]

Only reason I said Comanche-3 is because I can think of no other that is 3 stage but long and skinny like you discribed.

Its one of my all time favorites! I painted mine all orange because it really can go, and you want to keep an eye on it. Orange might look cool against the royal blue you described.

As for engines, I run it only using 2 stages, a C6-0 for booster and a b6-4 for the second (main) stage. Occasionally I use a 3 stage configuration with a D-12-0 for the first booster, B6-0 for the second, and an A8-3 for the main body.


If you can, post a picture!

 

[rharshberger]

Be prepared to re-attach fins frequently, its one of my favorite rockets (I am on my 4th one now), but it has a habit of shedding fins, usually on landing whether its the boosters or the sustainer section. My favorite configuration is D12-0:C6-0:C6-5 with a little wind as possible, also have a spotter for each booster and 2 for the main stage.

 

[JStarStar]

I would definitely paint some of the fins on stages 1 and 2 a bright reflective color (red, orange, yellow, etc etc).

The booster stages of a 3-stage rocket can escape the eyes of trackers fairly easily. A royal blue booster stage may be hard to find if it lands in dark green grass or other obscuring material.

The top stage of the rocket should have a brightly colored streamer which should make it stand out either in the air or on the ground (Or in the tree :y: ).

 

[Kirk G]

I would definitely paint some of the fins on stages 1 and 2 a bright reflective color (red, orange, yellow, etc etc).

The booster stages of a 3-stage rocket can escape the eyes of trackers fairly easily. A royal blue booster stage may be hard to find if it lands in dark green grass or other obscuring material.

The top stage of the rocket should have a brightly colored streamer which should make it stand out either in the air or on the ground.

Good point. I hadn't thought about the color of the streamer.... it is bright orange plastic, rolled up inside the top of the body tube right now.

(As I look at a few of the booster fins, I swear they have been repaired/glued back on with wood glue, though the owner swears it has never flown before...)

 

[ClusterBomb]

Good point. I hadn't thought about the color of the streamer.... it is bright orange plastic, rolled up inside the top of the body tube right now.

(As I look at a few of the booster fins, I swear they have been repaired/glued back on with wood glue, though the owner swears it has never flown before...)

You could always test that theory with a whiff of the tail section of the rocket; see if it's got that good old exhaust smell!

 

[Kirk G]

You could always test that theory with a whiff of the tail section of the rocket; see if it's got that good old exhaust smell!

I have had each of the booster sections off, gently pulled apart and then rotated to see if I could swap the bottom two (I could not...close, but no cigar, for whatever reason)...and I saw NO evidence of exhaust, gunpowder, black powder, carbon or whatever you want to call it.
So, though it is not in front of me at the moment, I will say he's right, this has never been flown, for whatever reason.

(I still don't know why it was "left behind at Grandma's" but I assume he moved on into HPR and all LPR stuff went into storage or was left in the basement, etc....)

 

[ClusterBomb]

I have had each of the booster sections off, gently pulled apart and then rotated to see if I could swap the bottom two (I could not...close, but no cigar, for whatever reason)...and I saw NO evidence of exhaust, gunpowder, black powder, carbon or whatever you want to call it.
So, though it is not in front of me at the moment, I will say he's right, this has never been flown, for whatever reason.

(I still don't know why it was "left behind at Grandma's" but I assume he moved on into HPR and all LPR stuff went into storage or was left in the basement, etc....)

The two bottoms are not interchangeable because one should be for a D12-0 booster (there should be no engine mount for a small engine in the bottommost booster) and the other is for a smaller motor, a C6 or B6.

You can't ignite a D12 booster from a. B6 or C6 (at least I haven't tried).

 

[rharshberger]

The two bottoms are not interchangeable because one should be for a D12-0 booster (there should be no engine mount for a small engine in the bottommost booster) and the other is for a smaller motor, a C6 or B6.

You can't ignite a D12 booster from a. B6 or C6 (at least I haven't tried).

You can ignite a D12 from a 18mm motor no problem, the issue with the Comanche3 is that the 24mm stage is designed to be the bottom stage in a 2 or 3 stage configuration, it can be flown as a 24mm-18mm-18mm or a 24mm-18mm, or even a 18mm to 18mm, or of course a single stage 18mm. In other words the 24mm motor stage cannot be put between the two 18mm motors, without building it that way to start.

 

[Kirk G]

Well, the good news is the paint that I used to accent with a contrasting visual color has FINALLY dried a bit...only 2+ days... and so I've carefully glued a replacement missing fin back onto the third/bottom stage. It tried to fall over several times, so I waited about five minutes after applying the wood glue, and then held the fin in place. After a few more minutes, I turned it and set the stage on it's bottom, the way it would normally stand up. I was able to adjust the position so that it stood straight, level on all three fins, and after a few more minutes to set up, I eventually picked the stage up and laid it over onto a propped up egg carton, so that the gluing fin was straight up vertical. It stood there this time, and so I went to bed. By morning, it was fully cured, and I laid in two additional fillets of glue on either side. And then touched up the missing chipped blue paint with a little too dark Valspar that was left over.

I'm thinking of masking and spraying one fin for the second stage, based upon your above recommendation...but I am still struggling with what color to make it. The Red Rustoleum is just taking far too long to dry and cure.

 

[Kirk G]

OK, let's see if I can post a few pictures...
Note that the red/white fin is new, replaced. I used the only "HEY NOTICE ME" paint I had, and did one side red,
the other white, but had a spare red x decal from another project, so it got attached.

Yes, the bottom-most stage IS sized for a D12-3 or D12-0 booster, so, I think I need to get a pack of D12-0 at the next club launch and pair it with my one B6-0 left to try a 3 stage launch.

Oh yeah, except for robin egg blue spray paint, the only thing close to the original color was a pint can of DARK BLUE Valspar, which I cracked open to touch up and seal those areas where the original paint had pealed off or taken part of the tube away.

 

[rharshberger]

OK, let's see if I can post a few pictures...View attachment 285157View attachment 285158
Note that the red/white fin is new, replaced. I used the only "HEY NOTICE ME" paint I had, and did one side red,
the other white, but had a spare red x decal from another project, so it got attached.

Yes, the bottom-most stage IS sized for a D12-3 or D12-0 booster, so, I think I need to get a pack of D12-0 at the next club launch and pair it with my one B6-0 left to try a 3 stage launch.

Oh yeah, except for robin egg blue spray paint, the only thing close to the original color was a pint can of DARK BLUE Valspar, which I cracked open to touch up and seal those areas where the original paint had pealed off or taken part of the tube away.

IMO, the Comanche3 looks good in most colors, my favorite is the flourescent orange classic, but I have also seen them in black, red, yellow, and now blue, it looks nice. The new decals on the other hand don't do much for me.

 

[marcusSRG]

Totally a Comanche 3.

 

[ClusterBomb]

Bring lots of spotters if you do a 3 stage! The boosters can get lost easy drifting down.



Good looking rocket btw!

 

[Kirk G]

Bring lots of spotters if you do a 3 stage! The boosters can get lost easy drifting down.

Good looking rocket btw!

Why thank you, but the original blue finish I inherited from the prior owner/constructor. All I did was cut a replacement fin, paint it, glued it in, glued another fin down again, and apply a decal. Today I shot the middle stage fin with bright yellow (and wished that I had done that with the bottom fin instead of the red rustoleum ....took SO long to dry!)
PS: The darker blue accents are my attempt to cover the chips and bare tube that was exposed when the fins tore up the paint or the primer.

PPS: There were no decals left with this rocket. I have no idea what happened to them nor what they looked like. But the one red X is from something totally different from rocketry (American Idol scorecard) and I had left over. So I tried it out.

 

[samb]

I suggest getting some silver accents on the 3rd stage. That thing will be way up there and moving fast when the 3rd motor starts burning and nothing catches the sun and my eye like silver. Then light the candle !

 

[Micromeister]

I still have and fly my Commanche-3 occasionally. the recommended motors for this very High flying bird start with a D12-0 booster in the first stage, the second stage and sustainer are both 18mm motors. Second stage can be either a B6-0 or C6-0. Sustainer can be any 18mm motor you like.

I have lost the second stage and sustainer several times over the years, cloning replacements on a more the regular basis. I've found on even the Largest Fields and days with very little breeze the maximum motor combination D12-0, C6-0, C6-7 easily puts the Second stage "OUT of SIGHT". My second Commanche-3 flight was with this motor combination. As expected the 2nd and sustainer sections were lost never to be seen again.

After replacements were done my next flight was on a D12-0, B6-0, A8-5. I also added a second 1" x 72" Survayers tape Orange streamer along with a 1" x 72" Flourescent Yellow. Believe it or not I got the Booster and sustainer back from this flight. The Sustainer was still out of sight for over 30 seconds even with the two 6ft streamers out.

I've also flown this model many times 2 staged.

Bright Flourescent colors are highly recommended. I have one that is Flourescent Red and another that is Flourescent Yellow & Green. I've had much better return results with the Green Yellow combination.

 

[Flyfalcons]

I saw a video on Youtube of one going on a C11-0 to B6-0 to A8-3. It was pretty cool because you could see the whole flight and staging.

 

[Kirk G]

I still have and fly my Commanche-3 occasionally.

Bright Fluorescent colors are highly recommended. I have one that is Fluorescent Red and another that is Fluorescent Yellow & Green. I've had much better return results with the Green Yellow combination.

:surprised: Now you have me thinking that I should repaint the whole thing bright yellow or Lime Green, cause I've got a can of that stuff left over from the Lil Green Man and from the Super Neon XL rocket.

I just hesitate to alter the original builder's rocket too much....out of respect. Y'know?!

 

[TopRamen]

I saw a video on Youtube of one going on a C11-0 to B6-0 to A8-3. It was pretty cool because you could see the whole flight and staging.

It is so easy to overlook the C11 motors, but they really do fill a niche that needs filled.
I like to fly my smallish 24mm birds like my glassed Patriot and Centuri on them for their first flight. just to be sure all is well and they won't go bye-bye on their maiden launch.

 

[cjgamer]

my Comanche 3 was my most flown rocket. I built it as a kid when I was like 13, and now-29 years later was still flying it until an unfortunate lawn dart on the top stage last year.
However- Estes has just released it again- and show it with a new paint job. I too- rebuilt the bottom stages many times from spare parts in the scrap bin!

https://www.estesrockets.com/new/007245-comanche-3tm