My adventures with fluorescent paint

[Dugway]

Last week I needed to finish my 1/4 scale ASP, which calls for fluorescent red-orange fins and nosecone, at least in the ROTW "Operation Redwing" livery. I am partial to Rustoleum spray products, and some searching on the Internet showed RustOleum 1655830 Fluorescent Red-Orange Industrial Choice in stock at the local Grainger. It sounded perfect, and the Rustoleum video showed them painting school lockers and stuff, so I assumed it would have to be quite tough. My rocket had already been painted Rustoleum 2X Gloss White several day before, and it looked great. I masked it off with Tamiya and painter's tape and headed out for the garage.

As expected from the previous discussions on this board about the difficulty of fluorescent paint, the first coat went on in a fine mist that barely covered anything and wasn't very regular. OK, fine. 20 minutes later, the next coat started to cover pretty well, another coat or two and all should be well. 20 minutes later, DISASTER. Big-time crazing on several of the fins, even at this stage. Hmmm, hoping for the best, I tried to lay down a fairly substantial cover coat and suddenly the can starts spitting out dust instead of paint. My rocket looked like at 70's Christmas tree that had been flocked. Disgusted, I stormed back into the house. 20 minutes later, and a final inspection confirmed my fears, half the fins looked like the Mojave desert with white gleaming through a multitude of cracks, and the rest were covered with fluorescent dust which could be brushed off with my hand.

I didn't look at the rocket again for a couple days, expecting it to be a complete loss. I finally brought it in and started sanding without removing any of the masking tape. I was surprised to find that with a bit of work, I was able to get back to a more or less uniform surface. Previously, I had noticed an unused can of Rustoleum 2x Satin Fire Orange. I would have rather used a gloss paint, to match the white, but I thought at least the satin might help hide some of the previous unfortunate events. The paint seemed to go on well, but I had no idea what I would find when removing the masking tape. The tape had been on for almost a week, the underlying paint had only cured a couple days before masking, and then it had been vigorously sanded on top of that. After pulling off the tape, I was amazed. The gloss white still looked pristine, and the Satin Fire Orange had (almost) completely masked the original disaster. The only imperfections were a few underlying cracks on the spinerons where I wasn't able to sand very well without destroying the plastic flaps.

Here is the finished model as it looked on Saturday at the UROC contest launch, it looks close enough to fluorescent red-orange to me, and the judges agreed:


I guess the moral of the story is, never forget that a bad paint job can always be sanded off. Oh yeah, and avoid fluorescent paint at all costs!!!

 

[G_T]

Did you put first coats down as light primer, then bright white base coat? Then fluorescent lightly, just enough to cover uniformly, in very light layers without trying to flow it out, then clearcoat. That's what I've done with fluorescents before and not had issues. It was what I was taught more than 30 years ago.

Gerald

 

[Dugway]

Rustoleum 2x Gloss White base coat, cured for 48 hours, before starting with the fluorescent. Crazing occurred long before anything approaching uniform coverage. The flocking happened as the paint was leaving the can and was agnostic of any state of the paint already on the rocket. Spraying from the can sounded different, as if it was spitting solids(?) and propellant without any liquid. The can was very well shaken between (and during) coats. I am assuming a combination of incompatibility between Rustoleum 2x and Rustoleum Industrial Choice (crazing) even though they were both enamels, and just a bad can of paint (flocking). I have been told that I should have just chucked the can and tried a new one, but the damage was already done. You would think that Grainger would go through crates of this stuff, but maybe the fluorescent red-orange is a slow mover and the paint had been sitting around for a while. Who knows.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I've had crazing with fluorescents applied over GLOSS white. So the gloss may be part of the crazing issue. You might have had better results going over a flat white, or even better, a white primer.

(One confusing thing on some of the Rusto 2x labeling is that they will label certain colors like white as as "Paint and Primer." There are 2 functions of primer --- stick to the surface and also be a good surface for other paint to stick to. I'm pretty sure this "Paint and Primer" label means that the 2x paint can stick to lots of surfaces like primer and does not necessarily need a primer coat first. But I do not think the 2x paint works like a primer in the sense of creating a good paint for other kinds of paint to stick to. Other Rusto gloss can stick to it, but maybe not touchy paints like the Fluorescents. A better label might be "no primer required".)

Unfortunately, I also have experience with the spitting and sputtering paint. And one of the worst cases was with regular Rusto fluorescent orange. The second it starts, you need to stop painting. The first fix to try is to remove and replace the nozzle on the can, and this often will work. Usually it is the nozzle, not the paint, that is the problem, but not always. If a new nozzle doesn't work, then the can is shot, and you need to return it for refund or exchange.

I'm really sorry to hear this. I like fluorescent paint jobs, but I've had problems with fluorescent paint. I was hoping the Industrial Choice would be easier to work with.

I have sanded off so many bad paint jobs and started over again...

 

[ksaves2]

With small rockets, acetone or lacquer thinner will remove spray paint if you don't mind the smell and stripping off the primer too. I had to strip a metallic off an upper bay one time due to the fact it was radio opaque to the tracker. Wiped right off, re-primed and reshot a non-metallic paint. Kurt

 

[Gary Byrum]

I've had crazing with fluorescents applied over GLOSS white. So the gloss may be part of the crazing issue. You might have had better results going over a flat white, or even better, a white primer.

1+ on this note. The only time I paint over 2X gloss, is with a different color 2X gloss. But all first coats are with a flat white anymore. I have very few issues using fluorescent paint, as long as I spray it on a flat white surface. With the exception of how deceiving it looks as it starts to dry. It looks like I didn't spray evenly and I wind up painting way too much on. I've come to appreciate the 2X ultra cover primer which is a darker gray. After smoothing and taking care of any flaws, apply the flat 2x white. Then it's game on with whatever color you choose.

 

[o1d_dude]

As a base layer for fluorescent, Rusto 2X White Primer is what I use and have had no difficulties with it. As a matter of fact, this is the ~only~ OD-approved use for Rusto 2X primers. The actual priming is ALWAYS Rusto Filler Primer in light gray and 2X white is the very last coat.

Getting fluoro paints to cover evenly is difficult on small diameter rockets and and small sized surfaces. On larger diameter tubes and large fins, it's virtually impossible. The tint will darken as you add more coats and it will blotch so "Embrace the Suck". Lay down just enough color to get it close to the nominal color and it will look fine at launch distances. Especially if you clear coat it.

If you choose to overcoat with clear, Rusto Crystal Clear Enamel is highly recommended. It self-levels very well and will protect the rocket from those greasy black launch rail hands...meaning you will be able to wipe off the residue from the Smoky Sam that that used the rail before you. If you don't clear coat the fluoro paint, the blotches in spray coverage will soon be hidden by fingerprints, impact debris, and hangar rash. In short, clear coat all fluoro painted surfaces.

If you start having rattle can problems while laying down fluoro colors, do yourself a favor and throw the can currently in use aside and pick up the next one. You did buy more than one, right? I buy 'em five at time and take the defective ones back to Home Depot for exchange.

View attachment 264642

This is a 5.5" diameter Polecat Goblin painted in Rusto Fluorescent Pink and clear coated with Rusto Crystal Clear Enamel. The black trim is Rusto Metallic Night Sky Black clear coated with the same Rusto clear. Two of the fin surfaces came out "gritty" so I busted out some auto sandpaper and worked my way from 1200 grit to 2500 grit just to see if would work. It did. Just like rubbing out the top coats on a metalflake car. Say...if you're really serious about your surfaces you can always apply car wax and buff it. Probably wouldn't hold up on a mach flight, tho.

 

[Dugway]

So, it sounds like to get a gloss white airframe with fluorescent fins, I should have primed and painted the entire rocket with the gloss white, masked the airframe, repainted the fins/nosecone with FLAT white Rusto 2x, waited a couple days, and THEN started with the fluorescent paint. Or even better, just given up on the gloss airframe and just done the whole thing flat and then relied on the clear coat for the gloss. Live and learn, I guess. And no, I didn't buy multiple cans, at $7 a pop I bought one and hoped for the best.

 

[Gary Byrum]

It's easier than that really. First you prime, then you use flat white all over. Once that's dry, mask off the fins and paint the airframe gloss white. When that's dry, mask off for the fluorescent paint. There's no reason to paint over a gloss finish with flat paint.

 

[hcmbanjo]

I looked in a few hardware stores until I finally found some Krylon fluorescent Red-Orange.
I know - Krylon! But I was stuck, I couldn't find any other brand.
There was plenty of fluorescent Red, Pink or Yellow, but no fluorescent Red-Orange combo.

The fins on my Nike Tomahawk had a white undercoat.
I shook the can for quite a while and pressed the button, aiming at the wand/dowel in the engine mount.
I never hit the model first, always do a test spray.
It sprayed for a second and stopped! Clogged on the first spray!

I returned it and ended up going with a Rusto 2X red fluorescent. It looks more orange than red.
Oh well, another compromise.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I looked in a few hardware stores until I finally found some Krylon fluorescent Red-Orange.
I know - Krylon! But I was stuck, I couldn't find any other brand.
There was plenty of fluorescent Red, Pink or Yellow, but no fluorescent Red-Orange combo.

The fins on my Nike Tomahawk had a white undercoat.
I shook the can for quite a while and pressed the button, aiming at the wand/dowel in the engine mount.
I never hit the model first, always do a test spray.
It sprayed for a second and stopped! Clogged on the first spray!

I returned it and ended up going with a Rusto 2X red fluorescent. It looks more orange than red.
Oh well, another compromise.

Rustoleum has a red fluorescent in their 2x line? The only fluorescents I have seen from Rusto are in some kind of specialty paint line (not sure what the line is called but the cans have a partly greenish label) and in their Industrial Choice line. I haven't seen any fluorescents in the 2x. The other lines do include a red-orange, but not everyone carries it.

 

[Dugway]

The fluorescent Rustoleum that's at the local HomeDepot isn't in the 2x line, it's "Specialty". The have orange, green, pink, and yellow, have never seen red or red-orange. There is also fluorescent red, orange, and green in the "Marking" line, maybe that's the Rusto Red he's referring to. If it is more orange than red, it may be a viable alternative. "Marking" paint just sounds more scary than "Specialty" paint, and "Industrial Choice" sounds the best of all! Who knows what the actual differences are.

 

[o1d_dude]

The newer Rusto fluoro paints seem to have more spitting and sputtering problems than the older cans. It might have something to do with the new big white spray heads. It might be worth trying an older/known good small spray head to see what happens.

I've also had problems with Rusto rattle cans with the new big white spray heads failing to spray when held upright but working just fine when inverted. This is where a spray can handle comes in very handy.

I am uncertain as to the nature of the fluoro paints (enamel or lacquer). To be safe, I only spray fluoro over white primer and ~never~ over any "paint".

 

[Dugway]

Gary, It has never occurred to me to "reverse mask" like this. I have always just painted the whole rocket from light to dark colors, masking over the light before painting the dark. Is it difficult to get the masking tape lined up exactly the same when switching from one color to the other? Do you leave the first tape on and while matching up the second tape, and then remove the first tape? Have you ever ended up with bad seams between the two colors?

 

[Nick@JET]

I just used Krylon Flourescent Yellow and really wasn't expecting much - I sprayed white then yellow and came out very nice, although my coverage area was fairly small


Picture doesn't do justice but pretty bright

 

[Gary Byrum]

Gary, It has never occurred to me to "reverse mask" like this. I have always just painted the whole rocket from light to dark colors, masking over the light before painting the dark. Is it difficult to get the masking tape lined up exactly the same when switching from one color to the other? Do you leave the first tape on and while matching up the second tape, and then remove the first tape? Have you ever ended up with bad seams between the two colors?

1st of all, you are using gloss paint with fluorescent, which are two types of paint. I don't usually combine like that so, since you seem to be experiencing a problem with fluorescent over white gloss, I recommended the flat. White paint btw, helps the "neon" colors pop better than a dark background will.

If I were doing your project, I'd try roughly masking off the fins, leaving just a little of them exposed at the root edge, (about 1/16") to allow just a wee bit of the white gloss to go on them. This is so when you do the master masking, you'll have a tiny bit of white gloss exposed on each fin, that may or may not give you a problem, but for the most part, you'll be spraying over the flat base coat. Most of my paint jobs usually go from primer, to flat white, then a solid coat of what ever my lightest color is, then mask off for the dark color. A few times when I did reverse masking was around a transition, so it's harder to see any errors. Now, if you are one of these really particular builders that have to have those nicely curved epoxy fillets, you're prolly going to have to exercise your best patience. A good masking job is hard for me sometimes, but I have nailed a few good ones. Why don't you try this out on a busted rocket in the boneyard to experiment with? Better than another re-do.

One other thing here, that fluorescent paint is, and will lay down thicker than any glossy paint. You'll prolly get a seam anyway.