Motor Shipment Problem

[Begabait]

Hi,
I am Boris, 17 y/o, from Sofia, Bulgaria, which is sort of on the edge of Europe, Eastern Europe, to be more specific. I am new to the field of hobby rockets, and even newer to Rocketryforum. As far as I know, there isn't anything rocketry-oriented in Bulgaria, so it is really difficult to find the different components, and sometimes I am simply looking for substitutes of parts, and it is still extremely difficult. My most major issue is finding a rocket motor. Does anyone know 1)if there are manufacturers/dealers that can deliver straight to Bulgaria, 2)if I actually need any certifications to launch because in Bulgaria there aren't any prefectures of any one of the major rocketry organizations, and 3)would it be easier in that case to make the motor by myself?
Any help would be much appreciated,
Boris Topalov

 

[smstachwick]

Making a rocket motor is pretty much always more difficult than purchasing a commercial one. I know SierraFox hobbies is located in Italy, maybe you’ll have some luck there.

https://www.sierrafoxhobbies.com/

 

[DaHabes]

Aerotech has four dealers in Europe:

 

[Begabait]

Making a rocket motor is pretty much always more difficult than purchasing a commercial one. I know SierraFox hobbies is located in Italy, maybe you’ll have some luck there.

https://www.sierrafoxhobbies.com/

Thanks, I will definitely check them out.

 

[Begabait]

Aerotech has four dealers in Europe:

View attachment 565952 View attachment 565954 View attachment 565955 View attachment 565956


View attachment 565951

I will check them all, although getting anything from the UK right now costs as much as the product itself.

 

[mtnmanak]

There are some resources in Germany and Germany has a motor manufacturer - Klima - https://www.raketenmodellbau-klima.de/

This guy has a blog in Germany that lists a number of Euro resources - https://t-rocketry.de/hobby-resources/

None are close to Bulgaria, but they may be able to ship things easier inside the EU rather than getting things from the UK.

 

[Begabait]

Aerotech has four dealers in Europe:

View attachment 565952 View attachment 565954 View attachment 565955 View attachment 565956


View attachment 565951

I will check them all, although getting anything from the UK right now costs as much as the product itself.

There are some resources in Germany and Germany has a motor manufacturer - Klima - https://www.raketenmodellbau-klima.de/

This guy has a blog in Germany that lists a number of Euro resources - https://t-rocketry.de/hobby-resources/

None are close to Bulgaria, but they may be able to ship things easier inside the EU rather than getting things from the UK.

Thanks, I will definitely check them.

 

[Hobie1dog]

to the forum

 

[charrington]

Hello Boris!

What did you plan on launching? I know there are some great rocketeers on this forum that are located in Europe that may be able to point you in the right direction. I am not familiar with the logistics of Rocketry in Europe. I hope you get the answers you need!

 

[Begabait]

Hello Boris!

What did you plan on launching? I know there are some great rocketeers on this forum that are located in Europe that may be able to point you in the right direction. I am not familiar with the logistics of Rocketry in Europe. I hope you get the answers you need!

Hi,
I think I found a solution at a place I previously thought worthless. I just found out that Eurospacetechnology isn't located in the UK, but rather in the Netherlands, which means no taxes, and they also ship worldwide, so it should all be fine. I want to launch a rocket with an H motor, I am going to have the usual components, but since I am good with electronics, I am going to have an Arduino onboard with sensors to record telemetry data and a camera to record the flight. This is what I want to achieve in the next one or two months, and after that I want to launch a bigger rocket, but I would need an HPR certificate for that, and since 1) I am still underage for that and 2) there are no certifying prefectures in Bulgaria, I am really worried that I might not be able to do that. Do you have any suggestions on how to tackle this certificate-issue in the easiest possible way?

 

[OverTheTop]

I will check them all, although getting anything from the UK right now costs as much as the product itself.

That's what we put up with in Australia too. I got an order from AC Supply in the USA a while back. Postage alone was $140USD.

 

[rcktnut]

Hi,
I think I found a solution at a place I previously thought worthless. I just found out that Eurospacetechnology isn't located in the UK, but rather in the Netherlands, which means no taxes, and they also ship worldwide, so it should all be fine. I want to launch a rocket with an H motor, I am going to have the usual components, but since I am good with electronics, I am going to have an Arduino onboard with sensors to record telemetry data and a camera to record the flight. This is what I want to achieve in the next one or two months, and after that I want to launch a bigger rocket, but I would need an HPR certificate for that, and since 1) I am still underage for that and 2) there are no certifying prefectures in Bulgaria, I am really worried that I might not be able to do that. Do you have any suggestions on how to tackle this certificate-issue in the easiest possible way?

You need to be certified to launch an H motor. MPR G's and under is all you can launch/obtain until certified.

 

[charrington]

Hi,
I think I found a solution at a place I previously thought worthless. I just found out that Eurospacetechnology isn't located in the UK, but rather in the Netherlands, which means no taxes, and they also ship worldwide, so it should all be fine. I want to launch a rocket with an H motor, I am going to have the usual components, but since I am good with electronics, I am going to have an Arduino onboard with sensors to record telemetry data and a camera to record the flight. This is what I want to achieve in the next one or two months, and after that I want to launch a bigger rocket, but I would need an HPR certificate for that, and since 1) I am still underage for that and 2) there are no certifying prefectures in Bulgaria, I am really worried that I might not be able to do that. Do you have any suggestions on how to tackle this certificate-issue in the easiest possible way?

To start I would wait till you are 18 which isn't too far away now for launching a bigger motor that requires certification. I think your current goal is a good one! Just take your time and enjoy the process. What you can start doing as of now is figuring out where you can actually launch something larger. I think the Netherlands has a pretty big High power group. I know that a few citizens from the Netherlands Traveled to Nevada, USA to launch a space shot. There is a thread here where they talk about that launch so you could probably contact them and they may know what you should do going forward.

Here is the thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/two-stage-p-to-o-space-shot-attempt-at-balls-30.175316/

You may have to travel but thats just the way it is sometimes. The important thing is to get in contact with people around you that have experience!

 

[charrington]

You need to be certified to launch an H motor. MPR G's and under is all you can launch/obtain until certified.

I am unsure of this rule applying to where the user is located. Even in America, depending on the motor propellant mass and the weight of the rocket, an H motor can be considered a Class 1 rocket.

This is also assuming that the user would be flying at a NAR or TRA insured launch site which may be unlikely where the user is at. Also I can be uncertified, manufacture an O motor, and launch it at FAR in California.

 

[dhbarr]

FAI Space Modeling has historically been active in Bulgaria. So there are some rocketeers flying in an organized fashion, but I don't know how to put you in contact with Toshko Stoyanov.

 

[rcktnut]

I am unsure of this rule applying to where the user is located. Even in America, depending on the motor propellant mass and the weight of the rocket, an H motor can be considered a Class 1 rocket.

This is also assuming that the user would be flying at a NAR or TRA insured launch site which may be unlikely where the user is at. Also I can be uncertified, manufacture an O motor, and launch it at FAR in California.

It does not matter class 1 or not, an H impulse motor is HPR. I guess anyone that really wants to can fly anything they want cert or not. The only thing preventing that is vendors want proof of certification level before selling a person a motor. That's the way it is supposed to be anyway.

 

[tsmith1315]

It does not matter class 1 or not, an H impulse motor is HPR.

How, if there's no NFPA, TRA or NAR in his country to define HPR? It can't be Class 1, either. That's an FAA definition.

I'd say not "HPR", but are there any laws that would regulate such activities?


edit: @rcktnut, I just noticed you were replying to @charrington and not the OP. Sorry about that.

 

[charrington]

It does not matter class 1 or not, an H impulse motor is HPR. I guess anyone that really wants to can fly anything they want cert or not. The only thing preventing that is vendors want proof of certification level before selling a person a motor. That's the way it is supposed to be anyway.

My point is that I'm guessing you are not familiar with the laws that dictate what is considered a High Power Rocket in Europe let alone specifically Bulgaria. The user would be better off listening to what someone in a similar position and location to him has to say. People flying in Europe have their own vendors.

 

[rcktnut]

How, if there's no NFPA, TRA or NAR in his country to define HPR? It can't be Class 1, either. That's an FAA definition.

I'd say not "HPR", but are there any laws that would regulate such activities?


edit: @rcktnut, I just noticed you were replying to @charrington and not the OP. Sorry about that.

My point is that I'm guessing you are not familiar with the laws that dictate what is considered a High Power Rocket in Europe let alone specifically Bulgaria. The user would be better off listening to what someone in a similar position and location to him has to say. People flying in Europe have their own vendors.

Correct and agree with both. I don't know what vendors rules are over there, don't know if there is a manufacturer (AT/CTI) agreement with vendors over there allowing sales of their motors to anybody they want to including minors. I just figured that it might be hard for OP to obtain an H motor.

 

[Begabait]

To start I would wait till you are 18 which isn't too far away now for launching a bigger motor that requires certification. I think your current goal is a good one! Just take your time and enjoy the process. What you can start doing as of now is figuring out where you can actually launch something larger. I think the Netherlands has a pretty big High power group. I know that a few citizens from the Netherlands Traveled to Nevada, USA to launch a space shot. There is a thread here where they talk about that launch so you could probably contact them and they may know what you should do going forward.

Here is the thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/two-stage-p-to-o-space-shot-attempt-at-balls-30.175316/

You may have to travel but thats just the way it is sometimes. The important thing is to get in contact with people around you that have experience!

Thank you very much for the info on the group, I will definitely get in contact with them!

 

[Begabait]

FAI Space Modeling has historically been active in Bulgaria. So there are some rocketeers flying in an organized fashion, but I don't know how to put you in contact with Toshko Stoyanov.

Are you from Bulgaria?

 

[Begabait]

My point is that I'm guessing you are not familiar with the laws that dictate what is considered a High Power Rocket in Europe let alone specifically Bulgaria. The user would be better off listening to what someone in a similar position and location to him has to say. People flying in Europe have their own vendors.

I called the local Plane Safety or sth organization, and the people there simply told me that there haven't been such cases of launching hobby rockets previously, so they couldn't tell me how and what to do in terms of legislation.

 

[dhbarr]

Are you from Bulgaria?

No, but my sons are involved with FAI Spacemodeling in the USA.

 

[Begabait]

Also, since I am obviously a complete beginner, any tips and tricks about the safety when dealing with the rocket motor, and any other dangerous components? I don't really have anyone else to teach me this, so I think my best option is to just ask you guys, so that I can still continue posting with all my fingers attached to the hands.

 

[smstachwick]

Also, since I am obviously a complete beginner, any tips and tricks about the safety when dealing with the rocket motor, and any other dangerous components? I don't really have anyone else to teach me this, so I think my best option is to just ask you guys, so that I can still continue posting with all my fingers attached to the hands.

Small rocket motors (Type D and smaller) usually come as preassembled units. The most important thing for you to know is to leave them alone. There is nothing of genuine value to be learned by a beginner disassembling or tampering with live rocket motors. This applies to both black powder and composite-propellant motors.

If you progress, you may encounter reloadable composite-propellant rocket motors where the casing and closures are reusable, but everything else is disposable and you must assemble the motor yourself. Should you advance to this level, again, leave the components alone. Assemble them exactly as specified by the manufacturer and only make alterations that are approved. More experienced fliers or the manufacturer can help you with this.

The most difficult, dangerous part of making rocket motors is mixing propellant. Preassembled rocket motors will have the propellant safely tucked away in the casing and reload kits will have all propellant slugs mixed beforehand.

No certified, commercially available rocket motors will have you do the mixing yourself. It is an option for those progressing into research rocketry, including very ambitious projects beyond traditional high-power rocketry, but as of now the safest way for you to engage with this activity (if you must) is to learn from a distance and gather relevant information while you work your way towards comfortable proficiency with commercial motors. There is much to be learned from even the smallest and simplest of commercial motors.

Beyond this, just be familiar with the Safety Codes in your jurisdiction. Familiarize yourself with range safety practices and speak up if something gives you a bad feeling. 99% of the time, that will cover you and you will never have a severe accident.

 

[Begabait]

Thanks, that was really helpful, I would be very careful then not to drop or hit the motors.

 

[SolarYellow]

Seriously consider working with less powerful rockets for awhile and work up to the H. The aerodynamics and physics all apply the same (until you get into transonic, but you can also do that with low-power rockets), but at lower cost and with lower energy, so if something goes not to plan, it is not as big a problem. Get your program and your skills tuned up with a lower risk profile first.

 

[Begabait]

Seriously consider working with less powerful rockets for awhile and work up to the H. The aerodynamics and physics all apply the same (until you get into transonic, but you can also do that with low-power rockets), but at lower cost and with lower energy, so if something goes not to plan, it is not as big a problem. Get your program and your skills tuned up with a lower risk profile first.

Yes, I have already launched a few rockets with smaller rocket motors, and I am slowly progressing in the field. I launched a rocket kit a few times with a small motor, and then I also made my own version of rocket for that same motor. I did that just because I wanted to make sure that when getting to the more powerful motors, I would have already done it in simpler conditions.

 

[dhbarr]

Yes, I have already launched a few rockets with smaller rocket motors, and I am slowly progressing in the field. I launched a rocket kit a few times with a small motor, and then I also made my own version of rocket for that same motor. I did that just because I wanted to make sure that when getting to the more powerful motors, I would have already done it in simpler conditions.

Perfectly reasonable approach, especially as you learn a gut feel for recovery on your flying field.