They sent me the start date. I guess it could change if we can't agree on Monday. I am shocked the pay was so low. The employee offering is new and I suspect that just do not know pay scales that much.
Military Retirement - Woohoo! no more Fitness Tests
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Actually quite common practice with .mil applicants, ESPECIALLY in their first 5 years in .civ world! In my previous life as a Command Career Counselor and transition assistant for retirees at SPAWAR, regardless of E6 - O5, they all got insultingly low balled on their job offers.
The days of 'with a .mil background they'll beat a path to your door" are pretty much long since over for 99% of us, and you'd be surprised how many former military are simply happy to get a job offer, so (at least in the industries that I've been involved in), it's quite common to offer something well below going rate since a lot of .mil folks are willing to take ANYTHING 'just to get my foot in the door'......and employers know it.
I'm willing to bet that the employer needs/wants you more than the other way around, so don't undersell yourself.
I submitted my paperwork for reconsideration Monday. I would have made less than I did on Active Duty and way less than a new graduate earns, It is quite disrespectful. I know that comes off as pompous, but I have 24 years of experience and zero bad outcomes or mistakes reaching the patient.
I have two mistakes in 24 years and both of them I picked up and reported immediately to make sure no one else did the same. That is almost unheard of for a physician.
Looks like I will not be starting a new job till May. I guess I could finish the Nuclear Sledgehammer.
I have two mistakes in 24 years and both of them I picked up and reported immediately to make sure no one else did the same. That is almost unheard of for a physician.
Looks like I will not be starting a new job till May. I guess I could finish the Nuclear Sledgehammer.
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At a minimum, the should "make you whole". That is to say, the starting number should be at least what you were making on AD to include 30 days of leave, pay and any "pro-pay" that you received for being a Dr. on AD. What most companies start with is the old; "well with your military retirement added to what we'll pay you, you'll be 'making more' than when you were on AD." That's not the point. Military retirement pay is not part of the equation.
When I started my first job after AD, I was able to negotiate liberal leave (my oldest was going to USAFA so there was a lot of "parents" stuff the first year I wanted to ensure I could go to) offset by a lower salary, no raises...but bonuses based on performance. I could tell you the whole long story that turned out to be gold.
When I started my first job after AD, I was able to negotiate liberal leave (my oldest was going to USAFA so there was a lot of "parents" stuff the first year I wanted to ensure I could go to) offset by a lower salary, no raises...but bonuses based on performance. I could tell you the whole long story that turned out to be gold.
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I don't think you come across as pompous. The offer of less than a graduate is insulting from what I see. I think any reasonable person would think the same.
I got my job offer today and will start on the 8th of May. I hated to take the job and might start looking before I start. 29K less than my other offers and 51K less than the CIV market. The one good thing is it is an 8-4 job with no weekends. I guess my retirement check from the Army will make up for it.
Congrats. There is a lot to be said for predictable hours, and no weekends.
Good point.
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That is infuriating! I hope that it is at least a job that will bring you joy. I chose to take a huge pay cut to improve my quality of life, but that was a choice I sought out, not something that was pushed on me.
I hope you find the right fit/balance of joy and pay if you do keep looking.
Sandy.
It will be ok. I used to volunteer to do things to help that were out of my job description. I am being paid to do administrative duties so that is what they will get.
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Agreed 100%. I have 3 young kids at home, and post-military I chased the rabbit ($$) for several years.
I moved to the .gov sector and left 35% of my historical salary on the table, but I ALSO gave up nights, weekends, 24/7/365 on call, multi-month travel, and all the stress and pressure.
5 years on the .gov job now, Z.E.R.O. regrets. NOTHING can replace time at home with family.
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I promise you your new employers will be like the mouse in "If you give a mouse a cookie, he'll ask for a glass of milk". They all are that way. I was the "they" at one point.
You will often (most often?) hear employers extol the virtues of hiring veterans. The part they don't say out loud is they know you will not stop at 100% effort... That said, it's fair to say that it's not all the big bad employer that is taking advantage of the vet, part of it is self-inflicted because vets are seldom satisfied with the 80% solution. When I was a Capt, I was Chief of Training in a B-52 unit and the Sq CC came up to me and said; "Hey, we can't do more with less, 75% is good enough." At the time, I literally could not understand what he was saying. It did not compute and I didn't understand how to give less than 110%. What it amounted to was sometimes you have to go slow to go fast. They don't teach you that in ROTC.
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Back in 2013 when I got 'promoted' to a management position vs. an engineering job, it was because I tried to step up when we lost a pivotal member of the company who I worked with a good bit. He was an electrical engineer/controls guy from the Coast Guard and was the single hardest working person I ever have known. He and I worked projects when I was a mechanical engineer and we almost killed each other a few times - not through violence or incompetence, but because John would only quit working long after everybody else would stop and I would keep going no matter what until the job got done. I think our longest single shift doing real work (not just sitting and watching) was 56 hours straight - completely irresponsible for sure. We both called our significant others (him wife, me girlfriend at the time) to pick us us as we were so burnt out that driving would have been insane.
Anyway, when I was 'promoted' to the management position, I told the hiring manager to pass 100% of the resumes to me that had military service, as John was my example. I interviewed most and tended to hire people with military experience when the fit/goals matched. Nobody worked as hard as John, but they worked harder than most. I'm not sure if it was the training received during their service or the fact that it takes a strong person to join the service, but I can say that 100% of the time they were the hardest workers and most reliable people I've worked with. For fact, some didn't have the specific skillset for the job, but every one was an Alaskan Malamute ready to pull when given a task.
John is one of a few I've kept up with a few times a year since he left the company 10 years ago. A super solid human being and I am sure that either he or I will stand at the other's grave when the time comes. 110% all the time and that is a blessing and a curse. If I needed help now, he'd be here, but the reality is that 110% is only meant for moments, not a lifestyle is true. But it is great knowing you have someone like that to work with. If I learned earlier to stop for the day at a reasonable time, he would have too. That would have been healthier for us both.
Slight off topic (what?!?!?! on TRF!!!!!) but still somewhat on point I hope. The veterans I have known are hugely strong workers and 110% is their nominal or idle percentage and deserve pay that equates.
Sandy.
Anyway, when I was 'promoted' to the management position, I told the hiring manager to pass 100% of the resumes to me that had military service, as John was my example. I interviewed most and tended to hire people with military experience when the fit/goals matched. Nobody worked as hard as John, but they worked harder than most. I'm not sure if it was the training received during their service or the fact that it takes a strong person to join the service, but I can say that 100% of the time they were the hardest workers and most reliable people I've worked with. For fact, some didn't have the specific skillset for the job, but every one was an Alaskan Malamute ready to pull when given a task.
John is one of a few I've kept up with a few times a year since he left the company 10 years ago. A super solid human being and I am sure that either he or I will stand at the other's grave when the time comes. 110% all the time and that is a blessing and a curse. If I needed help now, he'd be here, but the reality is that 110% is only meant for moments, not a lifestyle is true. But it is great knowing you have someone like that to work with. If I learned earlier to stop for the day at a reasonable time, he would have too. That would have been healthier for us both.
Slight off topic (what?!?!?! on TRF!!!!!) but still somewhat on point I hope. The veterans I have known are hugely strong workers and 110% is their nominal or idle percentage and deserve pay that equates.
Sandy.
I want to thank you all. I started work on Monday. I am inprocessing for my new job. You have each helped me adjust to civilian life. I cannot express enough gratitude.
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Congratulations on your retirement and the start of your new job. Best wishes!
Just two points. First, transition is a process, takes a different amount of time and a different route for everyone, sometimes hitting the same milestones more than once.
Second, we're ALWAYS here for those times that no one else can relate to what you're going through and just need to talk.
I want to thank everyone for posting on this thread as I retired. TRF has really helped me as I retired and started working as a civilian. It is a huge transition. I am less than a month from my start of a CIV job. Your support as been essential in my transition.
When my wife retired from the Air Force after 20 years she went back to the same desk doing the same job as a contractor. Her transition was seamless. God luck as a retiree. Are you going to do the same thing as a civilian as you did on active duty?
No. I was a medical executive. I ran hospitals and medical systems. For ten years, I ran 3 different hospitals and medical centers. That is not a role that the Army puts a civilian.
I will always be a physician, but my role has and will change. I now work in two roles. My primary job is to supervise the liability evaluation system at Fort Eisenhower. I have also been detailed (assigned) to temporarily run the Department of Family and Soldier Medicine after a resignation.
Best of luck with your retirement Chuck. Planning any big trips?
I plan to take several trips to Tygart Lake to sit on a pontoon boat.
The Army has ruined traveling for me. I wouldn't say I like it. Planes are the worst.
Is that, essentially, the entire military (active duty) medical system?
Most of it. It does not include internal medicine, surgery, and Behavioral health.
The planes the rest of us fly in don't have an open door at the back. You may find you like them better...
. And you can get a nice lady to fetch a gin and tonic....
There is not enough gin on those birds.The planes the rest of us fly in don't have an open door at the back. You may find you like them better...
So what's this pontoon boat thing? Seats for many and do tours? Houseboat thingy, live aboard and chill out for a few weeks? Fishing?
Just chilling on my father's boat on the weekend. I don't get to see him much, but he is 80, so I better do it now.
boatgeek
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Similar. Not fancy. No fishing seats on the front.
Well, there's your project then. And a bar fridge within seat/arm spin radius.
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