Madcow Nike-Apache non-crazy stock build

[Flyfalcons]

My L3CC wants me to fly a staged project before allowing me to attempt an L3 flight in 2020, so it's time to get to work on the Madcow Nike-Apache. I am planning on not Crazy Jim-ing this one, and will be flying it on 54mm to 29mm combos. My setup plan is as follows:

Booster: 54mm motor mount, Missileworks RRC3 in the ISC for single altimeter deploy and separation charge, Jolly Logic Chute Release for the main, and either a Missileworks T3 or RTX tracker.

Sustainer: Standard dual deploy using a Missileworks RRC3, and either a Missileworks T3 or RTX tracker.

I have a T3 tracker now and an RTX on the way. I can only use one T3 at a time with my base station, so figuring out which tracker will sit in which compartment will be a matter of how I can get each one to fit. As of now, my T3 is on a modular sled that should be able to fit into the nose cone of the sustainer, so that is where I am tentatively planning on putting it.

For the booster, I watched a Nike-Apache fly last summer, and it was great! The booster used motor deploy, and had a very late ejection. I would rather avoid that, so that is why an altimeter is going in the interstage coupler. I was originally planning on using an RRC2 there, but it was a few dollars more for the RRC3, which I can take advantage of the aux channel to run a small separation charge as a backup to drag separation.

I have built a Madcow 38mm dual deploy rocket before, and packaging everything can be a little tight. However, the only major change between my Mini Frenzy and the Apache sustainer is that I need to run an ematch down for sustainer ignition. The body tubes on the Apache are longer than the Frenzy, so there should be plenty of room to pack all the gear I need in it.

Here is what I got in the box. Airframe parts only, no instructions or parts diagram. Also, unlike my other Madcow kits, no hardware (I already got started on the MMT when I snapped the pic), but that will be simple enough to source.

 

[Flyfalcons]

Step 1 is to build the booster. There is nothing different about the booster than any other kit until you get to the interstage coupler. In this pic you can see the after centering ring is just in place to keep the motor mount centered while the fins are epoxied on. Once the epoxy cures, I remove the aft centering ring for easy access to do the internal fillets.

 

[Flyfalcons]

The Interstage Coupler consists of a transition, a shoulder, a centering ring, and the sustainer coupler. I will be adding a plywood bulkhead and mounting ring at the aft end and sealing the forward end, turning the ISC into an avionics bay. I also epoxied the parts together before realizing that the cut on the transition wasn't even close to true. This resulted in a lot of filing and swearing to get the ISC to sit properly on the booster tube. So if you have one of these kits laying around, please check the ISC and get it trued before gluing. You will save yourself a lot of headaches.

The tape seen on the centering ring is to keep epoxy from dripping down while it sets. The tape will get removed, and the hole from the coupler tube will be plugged.

 

[Flyfalcons]

A fly cutter and drill press are perfect for cutting your own centering rings and bulkplate. Here are the parts I cut out of 1/4" ply, along with the mounting hardware I use to make a removable bulkhead. After these pics were taken, I epoxied the centering ring to the ISC shoulder. I will mount the electronics to the bulkplate at a later time.

 

[Flyfalcons]

Moving onto the sustainer, I first set up the layout for the motor mount. There is not enough room to run a standard motor retainer, so I positioned the MMT tube to sit aft of the body tube by about 3/8" to allow me to wrap tape around it and the motor for retention. I found an RC airplane pushrod guide tube to use for the passthrough for the motor igniter.

 

[Flyfalcons]

Because the igniter passthrough fills the space between the motor mount and body tube, the standard Madcow method of wrapping the recovery harness around the MMT tube aft of the forward centering ring won't work. So instead, I epoxied the harness in a straight line down the MMT tube and tied a large knot at the end up serve as a mechanical backup in case the harness manages to break free of the epoxy. I also dremeled notches in the centering rings for the igniter passthrough and epoxied that in place.

 

[Flyfalcons]

Good news! The fins on the Nike-Apache are 3/32" thick, up from previous Madcow fiberglass fins of 1/16" thickness. Being 50% wider makes it much easier to get more epoxy into the fin-MMT joint, especially helpful on this size where I am not removing the aft centering ring to add internal fillets. Using the double butter epoxy method resulted in a very strong joint for the sustainer fins. In the second pic, you can see a test fit of an ematch and a motor. All looks good so far.

 

[Flyfalcons]

With the major components together, I wanted to see how the whole setup looked. I need to make or find an Open Rocket file still, and don't even know the length of the rocket. So I set it up next to my 85" long, 4" Black Brant III for a quick size comparison. This is actually a bit taller than I thought it would be.

 

[Titan II]

Parts diagram...nice picture to hang on the wall.....

https://www.madcowrocketry.com/content/pdf/nike-apache.pdf

 

[rharshberger]

Looking good so far Ryan, I still think you L3CC is overstepping by requiring a "more complex" experience before allowing the L3 but you do what you have to do.

 

[markg]

With the major components together, I wanted to see how the whole setup looked. I need to make or find an Open Rocket file still, and don't even know the length of the rocket. So I set it up next to my 85" long, 4" Black Brant III for a quick size comparison. This is actually a bit taller than I thought it would be.

Looking great so far! It looks like you could have put on an Aeropack retainer on the sustainer if you wanted to, plenty of room to route the igniter past it.

Also that's a really nice BB III, I'd like one of those for my fleet.

cheers - mark

 

[Flyfalcons]

The problem with the Aeropack retainer is it has the same OD as the body tube. So the sustainer wouldn't be able to slide onto the ISC as designed. The Nike-Tomahawk model probably has the room to accomodate a retainer on the sustainer. Thanks on the BBIII, hopefully Polecat comes back soon as I really like their kits.

 

[rharshberger]

The problem with the Aeropack retainer is it has the same OD as the body tube. So the sustainer wouldn't be able to slide onto the ISC as designed. The Nike-Tomahawk model probably has the room to accomodate a retainer on the sustainer.

The GLR Slimline might work though as its not much wider than the motor rear closure. Of course aluminum HVAC tape will do motor retention just fine and have minimal impact on space.

 

[robbdm]

GLR Slimline or a estes motor hook will work. I used a Slimline on my Nike-Apache.

 

[rharshberger]

GLR Slimline or a estes motor hook will work. I used a Slimline on my Nike-Apache.

Rob if I remember correctly from when I RSO'd the rocket (at SodBlaster) you used drag separation and the ISC coupler was very loose. It was a great flight by the way.

 

[robbdm]

Correct drag separation. 7 flights this year have loosen up the connection but I just add tape to tighten. I've moving on the 5.5 Madcow Nike Tomahawk for 2019.

 

[crossfire]

My L3CC wants me to fly a staged project before allowing me to attempt an L3 flight in 2020, so it's time to get to work on the Madcow Nike-Apache. I am planning on not Crazy Jim-ing this one, and will be flying it on 54mm to 29mm combos. My setup plan is as follows:

Booster: 54mm motor mount, Missileworks RRC3 in the ISC for single altimeter deploy and separation charge, Jolly Logic Chute Release for the main, and either a Missileworks T3 or RTX tracker.

Sustainer: Standard dual deploy using a Missileworks RRC3, and either a Missileworks T3 or RTX tracker.

I have a T3 tracker now and an RTX on the way. I can only use one T3 at a time with my base station, so figuring out which tracker will sit in which compartment will be a matter of how I can get each one to fit. As of now, my T3 is on a modular sled that should be able to fit into the nose cone of the sustainer, so that is where I am tentatively planning on putting it.

For the booster, I watched a Nike-Apache fly last summer, and it was great! The booster used motor deploy, and had a very late ejection. I would rather avoid that, so that is why an altimeter is going in the interstage coupler. I was originally planning on using an RRC2 there, but it was a few dollars more for the RRC3, which I can take advantage of the aux channel to run a small separation charge as a backup to drag separation.

I have built a Madcow 38mm dual deploy rocket before, and packaging everything can be a little tight. However, the only major change between my Mini Frenzy and the Apache sustainer is that I need to run an ematch down for sustainer ignition. The body tubes on the Apache are longer than the Frenzy, so there should be plenty of room to pack all the gear I need in it.

Here is what I got in the box. Airframe parts only, no instructions or parts diagram. Also, unlike my other Madcow kits, no hardware (I already got started on the MMT when I snapped the pic), but that will be simple enough to source.

View attachment 368630

Who is your L3CC I never heard of needing to fly a staged project before going for your L3. Not TRA or NAR requirement for L3.

 

[Flyfalcons]

My L3CC feels that I am not experienced enough to attempt an L3 certification and am rushing to do my L3. He says the L3CC and TAP committees are aligned with his views. So, the requirement has been passed on to me by the whole of NAR and TRA L3 certification advisors. In that regard it doesn't really matter who my L3CC is because this is a requirement that would fairly be passed on from every L3CC to every L3 aspirant.

Onto paint. Once again, despite my promise to myself to not do this, I started painting before doing electronics. Mostly because I hate doing electronics. I will be finishing this kit in a scale scheme, and have the Stickershock set, but am sort of now leaning toward the scheme with flourescent fins on the booster and an all-aluminum colored sustainer. In any event, all parts will need a coat of white, so I'm working on that now while making the decision on color scheme. Due to the temperatures outside and in my garage, waiting for the paint and primer to cure so I can sand and smooth is an exercise in patience.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

My L3CC feels that I am not experienced enough to attempt an L3 certification and am rushing to do my L3. He says the L3CC and TAP committees are aligned with his views. So, the requirement has been passed on to me by the whole of NAR and TRA L3 certification advisors. In that regard it doesn't really matter who my L3CC is because this is a requirement that would fairly be passed on from every L3CC to every L3 aspirant.

Onto paint. Once again, despite my promise to myself to not do this, I started painting before doing electronics. Mostly because I hate doing electronics. I will be finishing this kit in a scale scheme, and have the Stickershock set, but am sort of now leaning toward the scheme with flourescent fins on the booster and an all-aluminum colored sustainer. In any event, all parts will need a coat of white, so I'm working on that now while making the decision on color scheme. Due to the temperatures outside and in my garage, waiting for the paint and primer to cure so I can sand and smooth is an exercise in patience.

View attachment 368968

Um, I'm an L3CC and a TAP. We do not require this type of flight.

 

[jamesr]

I agree, it is not a NAR or TRA requirement, prerequisite or what ever. If you are trying to fast track your way to L3, a TAP or L3CC can tell you if they think you are not ready and may ask you to work on something they think you need to work on. They may suggest that you build more, fly more and learn more by doing the first 2. Learning different construction techniques, using electronics, using different recovery techniques and moving up they power scale slowly. Going from a J motor to an M is a big jump and there is a lot to be learned in between. Take time to smell the roses. Going from single stage to complex like multi stage and clusters can be challenging but there are things like electronics that you will want to master before going that direction. Multi stage and clusters can actually be more challenging and require more skill and knowledge than a single stage L3.

It's not a requirement, slow down and take some time flying and get more experience with all the different parts of rocketry before throwing them all together. There is so much to learn, I seem learn something new from every project I do or I am a part of. And even the projects that I review will teach me things at time

JamesR

 

[rharshberger]

Deleted.

 

[Flyfalcons]

Working with fiberglass is generally great when it comes to painting. The ISC, on the other hand.......

 

[Flyfalcons]

So I just had to go for one more coat of white on the ISC, haha! That'll teach me to leave well enough alone.

 

[Flyfalcons]

The Apache, on the other hand, isn't looking too shabby. The booster tube still needs a clear coat, which should help its shade match the payload tube and nose cone.

 

[Flyfalcons]

Any excuse to put flourescent on a Nike is a good excuse!

 

[David Schwantz]

BVM Jets sell a pin hole filler, works great.

https://shopbvmjets.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=99&zenid=2bqi7uhf7845cqie0uikj6m5e7