Lets Talks about building Night launch Models

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Micromeister

Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
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Most of you know I only fly BP motors, and will use them in models up to the 1500gram LMR limit.
This is expecially true for Night launch vehicles. Many are 3, 4 and 5 motor cluster D12 upscales. but the model power level is only one of the thing to talk about.

Illuminaton, Materials, methods are all thing that several have expresses and interest in.
Last year I went about learning to fabriate Illuminted .030 polycarbonate fins. combining these with clear polyethylene mailing tube body parts and standard molded white or light colored transitions and nose cones to complete an almost completely illuminated Standard C6 powered Nike-apache.
I don't want to waste bandwidth repeating that entire build thread so those who are looking for all the details on building a Phantom Nike-Apache can see the build thread in the Low power section from last summer (july-Aug 2007).

Those who need sources for nigth vehicle materials, we'll talk about them in depth as requested.

FAA wants all our night flying models externally Illuminated from lift-off to touchdown. The rule of thumb suggested by our Eastern region FAA folks that our club has always found most resonable and easily done is to ensure each model flying on motor impluse over B to be fitted with some sort of constant on source that has a minimum 2000mcd output visible at 2000 feet.
More it fine but not less. this specifically as to due with the use of cylume (Glo-stick) type illumnation.
Please keep in mind the illumination on our models IS NOT intended to be seen by us the flyers on the ground, but are for the unaware Pilots in general avaition aircraft in the area, and Unsuspecting persons on the ground. ie a PUBLIC SAFETY issue. With these things in mind we can easily design
Night Illumination Tracking Equipment. (N.I.T.E.) systems that are both inexpensive, interesting and fit these simple requirements well.

Personally I like to use LED's as my main source for Nite model illumination as the variety, brioghness, color combinations, flashing and steady burn options are all but endless.
Strobes are FAR brighter but as with any filiment bulb area subject to unescpected breakage ALWAYS at the worst possible time.
Flashites and flashlite bulbs, mini bulbs and christmas tree lights can all be adapted for night flying along wiht some NEON, and electroluminescent panels and wires are new coming materials.
Glow-in-the-Dark paint, powders and vinyls while they begin lookng promising have proven to be both expensive and NOT very visible in the outdoor less then total darkness enviornment:( Many of these product are wonderful as a secondary light source and/or backups but should NEVER be used as the sole soruce lighting system.

All that said: what do you folks want to build and or talk about?
Here are a few of my NITE Vehicle to get your idea going.
By the way one can fly LED systems in MICRO sized models to HPR. it just takes a little planning to get the package weight down to use something other then a 9volt battery to power your projects:)

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guess I was wrong:
thought there were a couple folk looking for info on building Night Launch models. with Illuminated fins and clear Body tubes??

One source for tubing is McMaster-Carr, or other industrial or packaging supply companies. The ones i've had outstanding results with are simply clear Polyethylene "Cut-to-Lenght mailing tubes. most have .022" wall thickness or .028" for the 2.05" and 2.55" larger tubes. That 2.55" ID tube comes out at 2.578" OD, can't get much closer to 2.6 (BT-80) LOL! These great fairly light weight tubes come in 48" lengths. Just to give you a starting point the current stock number is 2044K52 and should list at around 5.42 ea;)
I listed the sizes I use on the photo below, hope it helps.


fin material for a lot of my PMC and scale models are made of Polycarbonate (Lexan) Plastic. this material is nearly indestructable at normal room tempatures. can be cold formed over 90° with pliers, can be drilled and tapped for metal or nylon screw attachment or can be solvent welded ONLY with a material called Weld-on-16. For most paper/cardboard to lexan attachments good old epoxy with or without epoxy rivet method hold permanently. I'll upload a couple shot of the Phantom Nike-Apache which is constructed completely with these to adhesives weldon-16 fabricated fins and attachment to the clear polyethylene body with fillets and internal components attached with 5 and 30 minute epoxy.

If more detail is needed on fin fabricatons or other material sources or techniques let me know.

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Thanks for the info, John. I like your modified Snitch, we did a basic
version of that for our last night launch here. I scotch taped some glow sticks
to the underside of our Snitch and flew it. It was a little hokey in comparison
with some of the other nice night launch rockets we saw that night, but it was
quick, simple, fun, and we didn't have to chase it very far in the dark. :D
It was surprising to see how much flame and sparks come out of a C6 engine.
I had no idea until I flew one at night.

For our next night launch (October) I'm planning to light up my scratch built
pumpkin rocket. Should be a fun project.

Jeff

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Well, I decided to make my Gizmo, nite capable for NSL.

On a foray into Wal-Mart I found the following items that could be used in any size rocket.

And the price.......88 cents for 5 red ,rotating flash, battery and switch!

The first two were found in the party favor dept. A magic wand, and a princess tiara. Both for .88 cents @

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I stuck it in the window, and could see it easily from 3 blocks away.

The cig pack is for size reference, after I removed the jewels and basic led unit. I have not taken it apart further, but it looks like you can mount the guts limit less ways.

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These last 3 units, I found over in the bicycle dept. They go on the wheel spokes. They cost 4.50 for 4 units. Each one has 3 leds...yellow, blue and red. They also rotate, flash.

The switch is motion detect and they stay on for 15 sec. I took one apart ,All the way, leds, batt. and switch, and it' barely the size a pencil erasure. The switch is a small pin , mounted in the center of a tiny spring, any jarring at all, will provide contact and set the leds in motion. To turn it on continuosly, I just stuck a small,section of e-match wire in between the contacts, It's been running 8 hrs so far.

I can see where these are really capable in just about any size rocket, they are teeenie. cheap and already to use. Just have to figure out how to mount them

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I've only done two rockets for night launches.

The first was a spool that had a flange broken off. I replaced the flange with an LED tent light. It was 5" diameter and 3/4 inch thick, with 4 AAA batteries. I thought it was bright during the day time, it was blinding at night! Flew it on a E28T, really cool as it tumbled back. It stayed on after landing and the RSO was a little disturbed by the bright light, night vision and all.

The second was the Estes Patriot. I modified it with 1/8 plywood fins and 24mm MMT. I found a RayOVac Kids Adventure Lite at Walmart that was a LED light on a head band. The light turned on, and another click put it in flash mode. I took the light off the head band and put it in the nose cone of the patriot. It was so bright you couldn't tell it was shining through the plastic NC. It ejected nose up on a D12-7 at 800 ft(?) (very cool motor at night) and the flashing light evoked an "That looks like a satellite." comment from one of the spectators. It landed a long ways away in a field of barley that was almost 2 ft. high. Turns out I spotted the light flashing over a 100 yards away. It was easier to find at night the it would have been during the day.
 
Wal-Mart sells lighted fishing bobbers (Night Bobby brand)for around $3 including the battery. They work great as lighted nosecones, just cut the top of the nosecone off and glue them in place. I have one that has been launched over 10 times , still has the original battery. Really looks like that is what they were made for!

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I really love night launches and wish we could have a lot more of them! I like to do mid and high power night flights and use a combination of high intensity glow sticks and led flashers. New technologies are showing up that have a lot of possibilities for night launches. At the last one I attended, an individual was flying an rc aircraft with electro luminescent wires outlining the wings and it looked very cool! The newer leds that are available are very bright and the circuits to drive them are real simple to set up. Cold cathode tubes have some possibilities, if they can stand up to the stress of landings. This is a group shot of the six night rockets that myself and a friend launched last month. I will post additional photos when I find where I put them.

https://media.putfile.com/The-Night-Fleet
 
John Wahlquist wrote an article about rocket electronics, which you can read here: https://www.rocstock.org/wizards/rocket.electronics101.pdf

In that article, he offers the following teaser description of a night-launch rocket:

"(for a really extreme sample of this, see the article on the
Babylonian Interstellar Transport Carrier with Hyperdrive in HPR Volume 33, Issue 5-6,
October/November 2002)."

Does anyone have a picture of this (or the article)? I'd really love to see what a "really extreme sample" of rocket illumination might look like, especially if it has a sci-fi theme as the name suggests.

Re: cold cathode tubes, I purchased a "liquid neon" tube, and I'm in the process of designing a rocket around it. I have two different ideas at this point. In a different thread I was enquiring about blue-flame motors because I want to match the flame to the tube color. It will probably break on the first flight, but it will look really cool up to that point.
 
Micro,
I for one would like a parts list and assembly instructions for the second pic you posted with the various illumination devices. There is a place out here called Orvac that I believe should all the parts I need. I just need to know/understand how it all goes together. Thanx for all the info by the way.
 
BTW, here are some of my recent night-launch projects. In the past, I have built several night-launch rockets with built-in wiring, but then I read about someone flying a Nova payloader with a glowstick in it, and that got me thinking about a more flexible approach. I used parts from an Estes Phantom for this model. It has a clear payload bay that can receive a variety of lighting systems, in this case a flashing incandescent string taken out of a toy. Originally I had some tiny LED lights shining down into the fin unit, but they were quite dim and added to the complexity of the model, so I removed them, and now there is no built-in wiring.

It had been tricky to fit a button cell and lights into the small space between the motor tube and the outer body tube. In retrospect, I could have located some brighter LEDs that size, but at the time I was just using what I had on hand. Anyway, when I took the lights out, I shortened the body tube, and I think the proportions look nicer this way.

For the Quest Saucer I simply taped some LED lights onto the model. They are from:

https://www.shulmanaviation.com/Micro-litez.html

I was surprised at how neat this looked on the way up. The tiny points of light are very realistic-looking. (The first time I flew it, I forgot to turn the lights on, but it landed pretty close by.)

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What Nifty little "Micro-Litez"! They are pretty neat are they rechargable?

The Lighted Bobbers are great fun! as are those Magnetic superbright LED "body Jewel/earrings". don't have a good a luck with the motion detecting bicycle spoke or tire stem LED's the ride down on the chute doesn't shake em up enough:).


One of the things I learned several years ago was, If your gonna be fling at night you want your models illuminated as well as you possibly can. It's amazingly easy to loose them on decent and after landing.
Many a Strobe and other filiment bulb have given up at either ejection or touch-down. So built your lighting systems to take these impacts.

I've also done away with battery and battery holders with coil springs both for weight savings and to prevent lose of illumination at ignition when the battery mass compresses the springs during acceleration.
I've gone almost entirely to 3volt lithium coin cells in 10, 12, and 20mm diameters. it's easy to consturct custom holders for special units, I use them in micros also:) I've found the holder shown below are have strong enough springs to hold single and dual cells in any mounting postion. and will power 43 plus LED's for hours. The 43 Led 3X Nova payloader payload section was switched over to a single 3V Lithium coincell power source several year ago, I really need to update the photo discription:(

AS for parts lists. LED lighting is so easy it's a matter of finding the leds you want to use, the resistors for them individually or in strings and the Power supply and holder if you use one.
I purchase most of my electronic supplies from Allied Electronics on-line www.alliedelec.com since RS has done away with most of it's "parts" stock. I still go in and dig around for some of there stuff, soldering supplies and things, but Battries, Coin Cells, holders, termanial blocks, switches, relays and such usually come from Allied.

LED's are changing almost daily, there are a number of very goot to Great on-line sources where you can get a decent deals on smaller quantities of some very nice Hi-output LED's. www.superbrightleds.com being one.
Keep in mind LED's are pretty directional mostly in the 30° vewing range so it's much better to arrange 3 or 4 around the model to ensure contiunous visability. Or use mirrors, reflective vinyl or frosting to defuse some of the light.

Electroluminescent Panels and wire are just begining to come into use, My only objection is the requried transformer and 9volt power supply. I've been playing with a few different panels and sized wires for about a year but haven't come up with a decent LPR model design. I'd say currently this technology lends itself more to MPR and HPR applications. As I don't fly models over 3.3lbs powered by clustered D12's. Until I solve the power supply weight problem these will likely stay lower on the radar. OH! and these Items are pretty expensive as well.

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The Yellow/Red llluminated BT-50 size nosecone in the previous pic set was used with a long section of Clear Mailing tube to build "ONE LONG NITE". This combined the single 5000mcd red LED in the nose with 8 3000 and 4000mcd yellow, orange and green Led's housed in a frosted (sanded with 220grit sandpaper) mailing tube slipped inside the clear outer airframe. all powered by the same 20mm 3v lithium coin-cell.
a D12 powered model that gets some pretty decent altitude while remaining very easily visable from the ground.

I have to say I most enjoy the Cluster Night Liftoff tho. there is just so much we don't see during daytime launches.
 

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Wiring is pretty easy also. I guess the best way to show that is the underside of my original LED lit UFO. their are actually 6 led strings (2 pre section all powered by the same 3V lithium it's pretty staight forward.
by the way these 24 leds are the JUNK variety that you get in the "bulk pack" from RS. unknown values, most in the 3.6 to 120mcd output range. It was built to show our club flyer that a UFO could be fitted with LED's and fly pretty well.....for a UFO LOL. I wasn't all that thrilled with the lighting but it do the job.
That's why the 2-stage UFO is so much brighter. it's all wired with 3000 to 5000mcd LED's and a few flashing RGB and UV LEDS as well.

As all these LED's are low voltage, one can use extreamly thin light weight 30ga copper telephone wire, or thinner if you can find it. I've also used copper and stainless steel foil adhesive backed tapes for wiring in hard to get to places and places I didn't want loose wires hanging as well.

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In a different thread I was enquiring about blue-flame motors because I want to match the flame to the tube color. It will probably break on the first flight, but it will look really cool up to that point.

I launched with an H242T blue thunder at night and was disappointed with the flame. The redline and mojave greens are the ones I like the best so far. The ones I like to watch others launch are the skidmarks (they can have the fun task of cleaning the case afterward). I suspect big blue thunder reloads would be more spectacular, but there is a limit to the distance I want to chase a rocket at night.
 
I am planning to launch my saucer on a J180T with some 30 or more LEDs this June. Bought 10 mm LEDs with built in flasher circuits so I don't have to worry about the circuit to power them, just the batteries. I would love to launch it on a J500G though, but I don't know how much thrust the saucer can take, so it'll be launched on the J180T.

Mike
 
Thanks for the links Micromeister, there is much to tempt me there! The nike apache is very cool indeed. Can the weld-on-16 be used on other plastic types? I have a 4 foot length of 4 inch Cellulose Acetate Butyrate that would be cool for a clear rocket if other clear plastic types could be glued to it.
 
I am planning to launch my saucer on a J180T with some 30 or more LEDs this June. Bought 10 mm LEDs with built in flasher circuits so I don't have to worry about the circuit to power them, just the batteries. I would love to launch it on a J500G though, but I don't know how much thrust the saucer can take, so it'll be launched on the J180T.

Mike

That would be cool. After several windy night launches I need to get something that I can fly under those conditions and not have to chase it into the next county. I have been considering getting an Art Applewhite stealth rocket and converting it for night launch. The spinning flight would be neat with lights. The only doubts I have is how well the electronics will stand up to "boink" style recovery.
 
The disc of my saucer is going to be 1/2" thick foam and I will be putting holes in that for the 10 mm LEDs. I'll be putting the LEDs flush with the surface and maybe some on the underside at the edge, so they should survive. Also, I believe LEDs are made of epoxy, not plastic.

Mike
 
This is my first night launch rocket, designed to take 15" mil spec glow sticks given to me by my nephew (they are used to mark helicopter landing zones). I add an LED flasher at the base of the cyalume and it is set to go. It is build with the clear plastic tube used to protect florescent lights and has flown many times on E9-4 black powder engines which give a great long burn. It is like a boomerang in that even if it is lost, it always seem to come back to the LCO table. :D
For its last flight I modified it for an apogee F10 long burn motor. An 8 sec burn at night is awesome!
 

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My favorite night launch rocket is my glow light express XL. It is made from LOC 4 inch tube and 4 inch clear tube that is a perfect match for it (from Petro Packaging). It flies with two 15 inch glow sticks and two LED buggy whip lights that were given to me. It always gives a great show and has flown with many different colored cyalumes (green ones are the most visible). For its next flight I am going to add electro luminescent wire to the lower section.

https://www.extremeglow.com

https://www.lapolicegear.com/am15in12holi.html

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My son is the luckiest person when it comes to club raffles and I always let him buy and keep track of the tickets. One of his many kits that he won was a rocket in a box kit. It comes with a clear fluted nose cone (probably derived from a plastic champagne glass). He decided this was going to be his night launch rocket and he also wanted 6 inch glowsticks at the ends of all three fins. It was up to dad to make it work however. We ended epoxying a buggy whip light into the nose with an adjustable weight system (due to the possible effects on stability of the glowsticks). The glow sticks are held by one inch aquarium lift tubes epoxied to the end of the fins. It flies great and looks cool on the pad.

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This one was build by a friend of mine, although I did eat the pub mix snack, whose containers are used in this design. :D It is constructed with a central skeleton that provides all support. The clear tubes are not load bearing for the most part. The lighting is with 10 mm LED's from TRF's own wolfstar and has only half of the planned lights installed. It flies quite well, but makes quite a racket when it lands due to the flexible nature of the clear tubes.

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I saw the above rocket at the last SSS launch during the day. It's quite impressive to look at. We, unfortunately, couldn't stay for the night launch.
 
terryg:
You should be able to use weldon-16 with your tube; It's a thick very agressive acrylic tube cement. I can't say I've used it with CAB tubes but I have used it with quite a few combinations. I'd try a piece first just to be sure.

That's a very KEWL multi tube model, I've also used some of Wolfstars LED's in a couple of my models as will. Bought a batch of his RGB flashing leds to include with a few steady burn units in a couple models.

It's amazing all the different sources we can come up with for various size clear tubing.
Don't forget about clear floursecent lamp covers, usually from the big box stores or home improvement places. they are pretty darn close to BT-60 dia and can be had in 48, 72 and 96" lengths. Sometimes they can be found in transparent yellow and red.

Another effect i've found most useful is the use of "frosted vinyls" over clear tubes to help defuse the lighting which can allow a lower LED count. 3m dusted crystal vinyls are another very KEWL effect and can be used over the entire surface of a tube or as designs which catch the light well. they can also be applied on the second (inside) surface taking them out of the airflow.
Translucent Vinyls will also light up will particularly if applied second surface.
I use alot of Chrome "mirror" vinyl to help those interior support tubes disappear as well as reflect some of the led lighting.

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This is a neat product, though actually flat, in contrast to how I've shown it here. https://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3039859&bhcd2=1210527742


Interesting: Looks like it might be something cool to add to a model as a secondard effect since it only actives to sound and touch.
As it's a 3volt device (2 AA batteries) I'm sure it could be converted to use a 3v lithium coin cell to further reduce the overall weight. Think I'll order one and see what I can do with it, thanks for the link:)

I've been fooling around with electroluminescent wire for a little while, So far I'm not all that impressed. it's pretty weak output for the added weight. Now true I'm looking at it for Standard and LMR size models I've been playing with single color 1mm and 3mm wire. but the darn powersupples are So heavy! haven't spent enough time on this stuff yet to say if it'll work for LPR models. should be fine on some of the bigger stuff.

One of the club guys tried to use the under chassie auto Neon tubes in a model last year. He had an awful time keeping it going finally giving up to use different LED strings.

I have to say, I think it's in our best intrest to use all filiment type and anything with GLASS housing as (secondary) illumination sources only. They tend to fail at the worst possible times during flight. I can't tell you how many Strobes I've lost at ejection or worse at landing.
A few year ago we had a club member Lose a G powered good sized model, motor Casing, and strobe set-up within 50yard of the launch site.... Never to be found again! I think he mentioned the model and set-up was well over 150 bucks, Was not a good night:(

Whatever you guys plan on building, be very sure to pay a good bit of attention to rough service application/installation techniques to ensure the light source and battery holders are secure enough to take the abuse of ejection and landings.

One very important item I might mention is to physically tie your batteries into holders with a small piece of wire or even those small nylon wire ties as long as you can be very sure that are really tight. Tape just doesn't cut it.

If you must use spring contact battery holders, Alway mount spring end in a position in such a way that neither initial thrust or ejection can cause the mass of the batteries to depress these springs further causing lose of contact with the stationary end which blacks out your system sometimes for the entire flight.
Hope this hints help a little.
 
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