LDRS worries

[daveyfire]

Leave em at full resolution -- I doubt you'll need 300 pictures, considering there are typically as many launches per day at an LDRS. Take pictures of the really interesting ones and you'll have a bunch of really good pictures instead of unsortable volumes of kinda-good pictures. At LDRS 20, I was almost constantly snapping pictures of rockets and I don't think I took more than 120 or 130. Even Nadine doesn't take 300 per day at a launch!

 

[Mike]

Neil, tip for you, no doubt you'll be quite a way from the action so if you set your camera to the highest res (bit of a comprimise between no. of pics) you'll be able to crop the images down so the rocket fills a much higher % of the frame. You get a nicer photo and can be more 'arty'!

After cropping you'll still have a decent sized photo (well for web use anyway) whereas if you set the quality too low you cann't do that, you instead have a lot of not so nice photos.

Like I said, its a comprimise...

 

[Neil]

Well, considering that I cant even figure out how the heck to change the resolution or the size, I dont think its much to worry about

I can get 275 pics on this card I just found out... Do you ever get 275 flights in one day at LDRS?

 

[llickteig1]

We did in Kansas (~400 HPR flights/day), but we had 8 banks of 8 pads each and safe distance between every pad bank so we could rack and fly simultaneously. Not sure there's enough space for a setup like that in NY, so there could be fewer flights per day.

Also, you might decide not to photograph every flight. After the first half day you'll discover that there are a lot non-descript H, I and J flights that you simply will get tired of trying to photograph. Shoot, at last year's LDRS if I remember correctly, we had more than 200 M and above flights. I know there are something like 60-70 BFR flights scheduled for this LDRS, so you'll probably get a little picky between "cool" and "really cool." For my time and effort, I like hunting up people I've met on-line or at my own club launches and taking static shots of them and their rocket gear on the ground. It enriches the experience for me to be able to put a face with a name (or screen name). I like helping my friends track and recover their rockets when I'm not flying, too. There's nothing better than a photograph of one of your club members or friends posing with his rocket in hand after a successful cert flight.

Also, as far as lines go (from earlier questions). Most LDRS's have alot of flyers and many big rockets with modest to long waits for launching. This is speculation on my part, but I think at this LDRS since the range is so close to adjacent other facilities, you might see many flights that are watched to the ground by LCO and other range safety personnel to ensure safety. This could slow down range ops a bit, so the lines could lengthen during the day. If I were going, I would prep whatever motors and rockets I wanted to fly in the evening and be ready to get in line when the range opens or SOON thereafter. Lines should be shorter then, plus it will give you the flexibility to be READY in case there are delays due to clouds, rain or winds. If the lines get long, go check out the vendors and the other rocketeers' prep areas. You will get lots of ideas for cool new projects. Then come back to fly late in the day as the flyers get tired and the lines shorten.

At LDRS last year I helped a handful of 'under age' flyers with making sure they felt welcome and ensuring that the proper steps were take so that they flew the rockets they wanted to fly. Most had a parent or older menter to help them out. Rocketeers are frientdy and helpful, but safety is concern #1. At the RSO table, I can tell who built the rocket and satisfy myself that the rocket is safe to fly based upon the knowledge of the builder and a few critical checks on the model. Scrutiny of the model and the flyer is careful at large launches, as it should be. Don't look at this as a personal attack, take it as a learning experience. When you leave the RSO table, you will have the flight card initialed or understand what needs to be done to finish preparing the rocket for safe flight. Someone said something before about having a motor with adequate thrust; if I were the RSO at an LDRS with 400+ flyers and 2000 more spectators, you better have a 5:1 ratio and know where the CP of your rocket is, or you won't be racking your rocket.

Go. Have fun. Most of all LEARN. You'll see more rockets and flights in these few days than you have your whole life up to now. There's more collective experience and knowledge about those rockets gathered together in one place than you can imagine. Take advantage of it.

Happy flying, --Lance.

 

[solrules]

Heh. I borrowed a Sony Macvia that records about 7 pics on a 1.44MB diskette. As you can guess, I got tired of switching disks out so often (actually, about 20% failed due to the 120+ degrees in the truck, im lucky my labtop did not bite the dust)! This year, its going to be many rolls of 800 speed film. You are not going to be able to get a picture of every flight. Days after days of rockets takes the energy out of you pretty quickly; I remember myself not bothering to look up for H/I/J/K flights I was so exhausted. Walk around, talk to other rocketters, almost everyone is willing to brag/talk to you about their design.

I plan on launching 1 or 2 flights per day max. Its not all about flying, now

 

[Neil]

This all sounds good to me.... Hows this for a list of things I would like to fly? Realistic?

Fire in the Hole, G64.

PML Patriot, I161, 3700'

Scratch built 3" diameter rocket, similar to LOC Forte, H148R

PML IO, G64.

Then, if it looks easily doable, a few more Gs and maybe another H or I in other rockets. Maybe my Yank Tomahawk or something... Or maybe the Forte.

Realistic?

 

[BlueNinja]

Sounds good.

As for camera cards, buy yourself a 256mb card (if you don't have one already)
I cna get 2714 pics on mine.

 

[Todd Moore]

Originally posted by sandman
But please...don't ruin it for others just because YOU think you are special and should be allowed to fly HPR at your age.
You are under age, nothing can change that! That is the rule!

I think that kids should be encouraged to fly the rockets that they want to fly, if they have adult supervision or a mentor, and their rockets can pass through RSO scrutiny. Many of the best and most knowledgeable rocketeers I have met have been under 18. These youngsters are the future of rocketry. Telling them that they aren't 'old' enough to play with 'toy rockets' is silly, IMO.

Try explaining that fact to a state trooper that pulls you over for driving your dad's car.
"But officer...I'm very mature for my age...and I don't think I really need a licence."
Basically it's the same thing.

No. I do not agree that this is the same thing. I think the real analogy plays out like this:

Suppose your dad is driving a car that you, as an underage motor-head not yet old enough to drive, rebuilt and souped up in the garage after school and on the weekends. Who's getting the ticket? Is it illegal to drive a car that was built by someone who is not old enough to drive?

I've met some adults who scare the heck out of me each time they carry a rocket out to the pads. Their lack of understanding is amazing, considering they had to pass a TEST to be able to fly a J motor but still don't understand the simplest concepts. All of the young people that I have sponsored or mentored for flights have shown an amazing aptitude for understanding the science of model rocketry. I have learned a lot from each of them, actually. I think that their drive for knowledge comes from the fact that they have to understand this stuff, as they are aware that their work and knowledge will be under greater scrutiny than normal fliers.

Sponsoring a motivated and bright youngsters rocket for a HPR flight is not against the rules. I use this criteria when I sponsor a flight for an underage person: "Would I fly this rocket as-is myself?" If the answer is yes, next stop, RSO.

 

[sandman]

Telling them that they aren't 'old' enough to play with 'toy rockets' is silly, IMO.

I hardly think anything with an "H" or higher motor is a "toy".

So then...why bother with the age rule?

Why bother being certified?

sandman

 

[Neil]

The reason you (or someone else) gave ME when I brought up jr. HPR cert.

Insurance. Heres what I took in from a year or so ago... It may be flawed (I havent read it for a while), but you get the idea.

if you have kids certifying to fly, and flying, rockets on thier own, NAR insurance would go up like a 30 pound rocket on an O5100... There were some comparisons made to the driving age (and, for some reason I still dont get, the legal drinking age ). Every year you lower the driving age, the insurance companies gouge up prices. Not because of bigger risk, but because they know they can because teenagers want to drive (I can personally back that one up ). I dont know exactly how that applies to rocketry, but its an interesting comparison. If kids were allowed to certify, nomatter how smart or stupid we are, insurance would go up for ALL NAR (or TRA) members, not just the kids. So, since we are all ready short on funds, we both cant AFFORD to do it, and some people just dont want it anyway. And, without certification, NAR would become toatally irrelevant. If they didnt have controll over who gets motors and who doesent, there would be motors everywhere, and not always in the hands of... Well... "good people". Inexperienced people (relatively speaking)could get their hands on an O5100 and try to make it fly, and proabably kill something in the process. This hobby would go to the dogs.


Thats just my understanding of what was said a year or so ago.

Feel free to slam it, I dont care. I didnt come up with it I just re-wrote it

 

[Neil]

Oh, and I agree with you 110%, Todd. Very well put. Thanks.

 

[karatekicker271]

im sorry i have been following this thread for a long time and now i just have to put my $0.02 in. I agree with neil and todd. As long as kids me and neils age have adult supervision, why cant we fly with the big boys?? I mean, if someone wont let them fly because there Cg is at the bottom of the nosecone, i can understand that but if there rocket is fine, passes RSO inspection and they feel it is ok... why cant they do it? With the motor building, i know how to build then up to H's and only intend to go higher when my dad thinks i am. As long as we have parental supervision, why cant we do it? And also the analogy of the u driving the car thing isnt really right because:
1) It is illegal to drive a car without a drivers lisence
2) Is it illegal for an uderage kid to fly a rocket he made?

i dont mean to sound mean or i am not trying to insult anyone but i dont think it is very fair that we are being told we shouldnt fly a rocket with a bigger motor. again, i am not trying to be/ sound mean but it isn't very fair in my opinion

kk

 

[sandman]

I do not agree!

These rules aren't in place to upset or exclude anyone.

Flying high power rockets is a privledge governed and regulated by the NAR and TRA (to keep the government off of our backs).

Imagine the reaction from a BATF agent hanging around in the crowd when he discovers that an RSO was letting a 13 year old fly high power rockets. I think flying for everyone would be over for the day.

Driving is a privelege governed by our states to keep the federal government off of our back.

They are both privledges not rights. Dangerous activity like driving and handleing high power rocket (yes it CAN be dangerous) must be regulated.

What you are advocating is circumvention of the rules.

The rules do not allow for "individual that FEEL they are qualified even though they are underage".

I'm sorry, but 13 years old is just too young.

I'm not looking for an argument, but it looks like I found one.

If you want to change the rule, change the rule.

sandman

 

[karatekicker271]

if our supervisors build the motor and we build the rocket and is passes RSO then wut is the problem??

 

[edwardw]

Amen Sandman!

For those underage - don't take the rules personally.

Edward

 

[Elapid]

it's illegal (misdemeanor) to drive without a license, insurance, etc.

the problem with being a kid is that you aren't able to enter into legally binding contracts. that means you can't purchase insurance. if you aren't legally responsible for your actions (your parents are), it's not likely that you will be allowed to take part in dangerous activities without your parents signing away their lives...

it's really nice having no responsibilities!
you'll have too many too soon...
trust me.


letting an underage kid fly a rocket without parental supervision would be pretty stupid (for the organizer) from a liability standpoint. basically, the RSO would be assuming all responsibility for the flight.

 

[karatekicker271]

im not saying letting them fly it without a guardian i dont think that is what neil ment either. if our parent are ok with "signing away their lives" why cant we do it

 

[jetra2]

I totally agree with sandman also.

It's a simple matter of patience...imagine how awesome it will be when you finally turn 18 and fly your L1 cert flight - that's what I'm doing!!

Jason

 

[edwardw]

I'm just going to be forward....

Rules are rules, live with them.

Edward

 

[karatekicker271]

ok i am jus gonna leave this alone

 

[Mike]

I agree with Sandman too, the rules are there for a reason and if people decide to bend the rules...whats the point in having them?

 

[Neil]

you tell me I cant fly my rockets, and you have indeed found an argument...:kill:

My dad knows how I build my rockets. He has toatal confidence in me, and my rockets. Hes OK with letting me fly them. If he isnt sure I know what I am doing, I would not be building rockets or flying them.

 

[Neil]

Neither side is going to give up any time soon. I dont think we should keep going at eachother like this. Its not going to get us anywhere.

Should I delete the thread?

 

[karatekicker271]

Originally posted by Neil
you tell me I cant fly my rockets, and you have indeed found an argument...:kill:

My dad knows how I build my rockets. He has toatal confidence in me, and my rockets. Hes OK with letting me fly them. If he isnt sure I know what I am doing, I would not be building rockets or flying them.

exactly

 

[Neil]

If I want to change the rule, change the rule?

Im workin on it, im workin on it...

 

[Elapid]

go somewhere and fly rockets alone, nobody is gonna care WHO built it, Loaded it on the pad, etc.

if you go to an organized meet, you owe it to everyone to follow the letter of the law.

a couple more years and rockets aren't gonna be the main thing on your mind...

 

[Neil]

Ha ha ha. still got a few more years before THAT happens...




Man I wish we lived at Black Rock sometimes....

 

[jetra2]

Originally posted by Neil
Man I wish we lived at Black Rock sometimes....

So do I, Neil...so do I...

Jason

 

[MarkABrown]

Originally posted by karatekicker271
if our supervisors build the motor and we build the rocket and is passes RSO then wut is the problem??

It is still a circumvention of the rules.

 

[MarkABrown]

Originally posted by Neil
Neither side is going to give up any time soon. I dont think we should keep going at eachother like this. Its not going to get us anywhere.

Should I delete the thread?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!. That's a moderator's job!