Kosdon 54 mm L850S (slow) Info Needed

[rocket1017]

I was exploring my magazine and low behold I found that I had one more kosdon L850S (slow) for the 2550 54mm case.

What I cant seem to find is the liner for it. I do remember from other one i had flew many years ago that it was a paper liner not a phenolic
But I dodnt know or seem to have put down anywhere how long the liner should be..

I do have some phenolic liner long blanks that i bought for making EX loads for the case but not sure if those liners ID spec will be ok and fit for the kosdon propellant grains.

Does anyone have any info to share about the correct liner length. I know they are different from later AMW loads with the different forward closure and nozzle which i have used as well in this case. i do like how the AMW loads had unlike Franks have the liner overlap the forward closure.

I like to fly this motor in my old venerable Bruiser EXP (Red white & Blue) for LDRS next week as it seem appropriate to honor Frank Kosdon. and especially my friend Paul Robinson. who i got motor from way back in his Kosdon East days and who i got to last see and share some times with at the first Potter LDRS.

Cheers
John ...

 

[DeeRoc29]

Try this:

https://tqc.yuku.com/reply/34221/AMW-amp-Kosdon-Nozzle-amp-liner-Index#reply-34221

RCS carries them.

Derek

 

[daveyfire]

The propellant should fit standard Loki/TruCore/RocketsRUs/Gorilla phenolic liner sets. The liner is 24" long, just enough to capture the grain stack. Frank wasn't a believer in steps on the nozzle and bulkhead (nor did slow/fast need them, the solids loading is low enough that the motors run nice and cool). I've flown a few Frank motors this way, in a phenolic liner; they were "Frank specials", cobbled together from grains in the back of his van

 

[J Blatz]

David and Derek are both correct. 24", paper, preferably with a coating of vaseline on the outside of the liner to aid clean-up.

I love that motor.....we could never quite get it right at AeroTech but it was very close.

Re: Frank's van - what better way to buy a reload or a semi-cold beer soaking in playa colored water than the back of Frank's van. Good times.

 

[UPscaler]

Not sure about 54s, but in the case of 75, kosdon grains do not fit standard phenolic liner...



Braden

 

[Buckeyegator]

Try checking with Jeff Davenport (JD Cluster). He knows more about Kosdons than anyone I know.

Terry

 

[JStitz]

I remember the paper liner with Frank's favorite lube,Dow Corning 111...(does that bring back memories?)
I only fired the Fast load which originally was a K motor(can't remember the Damn number) but was upgraded to a L-1860 by Tripoli Motor Testing.
I never got the chance to use the C-slot 2550 slow load which was supposed to be about a K-240....or the 2550 OG Dirty Hairy load which was about 2250ns.

Jason...You remember the swim suit beauty with his cooler.....Does Gary still have that cool cartoon plywood cut-out of Frank?

Rocket1017..That is so cool you are doing a tribute flight. I wish you luck.I met Paul(R.I.P),Ken Mizoi,Phil,and Jim,but never got west to meet Frank in person.

 

[UPscaler]

The tribute flight sounds like an awesome idea. And It's pretty cool that you got a kosdon motor from Paul's hands...not too many people still have a load in their possession with that kind of history.

About three years ago myself and my dad became Kosdon fanatics due to a good friend being an on site dealer for him in Idaho. After Frank's death, my dad's L2 flight was a Kosdon L630 slow that raised money for childhood cancer awareness, and served as a tribute to Frank.


As can be read on here, our friend that was a Kosdon dealer, Justyn, passed away last Sunday night (he was a Loki dealer, more recently)

Now my dad's L3 is set to be at Airfest, the same launch Justyn got his L3 at, and he'll be flying a Kosdon M2240 Fast that we bought from him...

While I never had the chance to meet Frank, I did have the pleasure of talking to him on the phone a few times. He seemed like an easy to work with guy and was very eager to get us what we wanted.


Braden

 

[rocket1017]

Guys:

Thanks for the info on the liner length and generic phenolic liner compatibility.

I found while digging in the magazine that I have also one more Kosdon Fast and a the original Paul or Frank Skidmark vintage loads for my 2550 case.

Yes ah Dow 111, Frank told me about the stuff way back when and I tried it and loved it and still use it pretty exclusively to this day.

Frank was so interesting to talk on all kinds of topics.. What a amazing brilliant propellant chemist. Too bad he was not at all into computers I wonder if any of the huge knowledge base he generated was at all preserved for others to learn from when he passed away?

Thank you all for good wishes on my planned Tribute flight. I hope it will be a good one that will honer our lost friends. The L850 was my first L flight way back when and my old Bruiser EXP fly's pretty nice on it.

Cheers
John ..

 

[J Blatz]

Guys:

Thanks for the info on the liner length and generic phenolic liner compatibility.

I found while digging in the magazine that I have also one more Kosdon Fast and a the original Paul or Frank Skidmark vintage loads for my 2550 case.

Yes ah Dow 111, Frank told me about the stuff way back when and I tried it and loved it and still use it pretty exclusively to this day.

Frank was so interesting to talk on all kinds of topics.. What a amazing brilliant propellant chemist. Too bad he was not at all into computers I wonder if any of the huge knowledge base he generated was at all preserved for others to learn from when he passed away?

Thank you all for good wishes on my planned Tribute flight. I hope it will be a good one that will honer our lost friends. The L850 was my first L flight way back when and my old Bruiser EXP fly's pretty nice on it.

Cheers
John ..

John-

I know quite a bit about his methods. No offense, but the truth is that Frank's motors were more more about geometry than anything else....he was doing way higher length/diameter ratios than anyone else back in the 90's. That combined with his "no more than 4 grains" design philosophy resulted in some pretty exciting flights. His geometry pushed the motors hard. An interesting piece of trivia is that the O-10000 design is very similar to the 54/2550 "fast" K load...both 4 grain progressives.

The propellants were very middle of the road in a lot of ways....fairly low metals, and middle of the road burn rates, with exception being that the fast could really get funky at high pressures. I think that the Kosdon motors seemed so unique because it was at a time when AeroTech pretty much owned the HPR market, and I would say 80% of their sales were white lightning (which btw is probably the best hobby rocket propellant ever - it looks great!). So anything looked good verses the same old K-550 in a Magnum routine. I know for sure that I couldn't wait to fly a Kosdon, but now I can see that ALL of the propellants out there have something to offer (but esp. the metalstorm stuff .

I hope someday AeroTech brings back the 38/640 and 54/1400 and 54/2550 loads in fast and slow at a minimum.

Jason

 

[jrogers]

Bring the motor and hardware to the AMWProx trailer at LDRS, we will hook you up

J


I'll be flying the 2550's big brother at LDRS Friday

54/3300 Skidmark (L2000 ish)

 

[rocket1017]

David and All:

Just a update on things I have found. The kosdon slow and fast and sparky loads loads I have will not fit in a standard Loki/TruCore/RocketsRUs/Gorilla phenolic liner sets. The one orginal Kosdon liner I finally found is a considerably thinner walled paper tubing with a outer white glassine coating like a Estes body tube allowing the larger diameter kosdon grains to fit.

Cheers
John ..

The propellant should fit standard Loki/TruCore/RocketsRUs/Gorilla phenolic liner sets. The liner is 24" long, just enough to capture the grain stack. Frank wasn't a believer in steps on the nozzle and bulkhead (nor did slow/fast need them, the solids loading is low enough that the motors run nice and cool). I've flown a few Frank motors this way, in a phenolic liner; they were "Frank specials", cobbled together from grains in the back of his van

 

[UPscaler]

David and All:

Just a update on things I have found. The kosdon slow and fast and sparky loads loads I have will not fit in a standard Loki/TruCore/RocketsRUs/Gorilla phenolic liner sets. The one orginal Kosdon liner I finally found is a considerably thinner walled paper tubing with a outer white glassine coating like a Estes body tube allowing the larger diameter kosdon grains to fit.

Cheers
John ..

As I suspected. I believe the paper liners are available from RCS, if you are looking for some.


Braden

 

[DeeRoc29]

Just so I have it straight, the Loki liner has the correct OD for the Kosdon case but the incorrect ID for Kosdon grains?

 

[rocket1017]

Just so I have it straight, the Loki liner has the correct OD for the Kosdon case but the incorrect ID for Kosdon grains?

Yes that is correct.