Incoming! Starlink sats coming home

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“In response, SpaceX called the agency's analysis "nothing more than the culmination of several egregious errors, omissions, and incorrect assumptions," per Ars Technica.

As of right now, the FAA is "reviewing the letter," SpaceX told Ars Technica.”

Starlink satellites have thrusters that can be used for controlled re-entry in the Pacific Ocean. This is just more harassment of Musk by weaponized federal agencies.
 
I hate the media...at least the modern media... the article started with "By 2035, debris from low-earth orbit (LEO) objects, like Starlink satellites, could fall and injure or kill someone, the FAA said in report to Congress." (I placed the emphasis)

It sounds like a combination of CYA and targeted fear mongering at the same time.

What I did find interesting, and something I haven't paid attention to in the past, is found later in the article. " In 2019, 0.5 percent of twilight images were affected, and now almost 20 percent are affected," Dr. Przemek Mróz said..." (again, the emphasis is mine).

That is a marked increase in effect in a short time. Given the fact Starlink is the most notable and numerous having been launched in the last few years, one might assume that is what has caused the increase. However, in the next statement Mroz says; "We don't expect Starlink satellites to affect non-twilight images, but if the satellite constellation of other companies goes into higher orbits, this could cause problems for non-twilight observations..." 😖
 
To pile on, this quote from SpaceX’s reply is a burn:

“The fact that FAA simply accepted the Aerospace report without question or scrutiny raises concerns regarding FAA's technical competence to responsibly assess and regulate in this area."

Ouch. But seems appropriate.


Tony
 
I hate the media...at least the modern media... the article started with "By 2035, debris from low-earth orbit (LEO) objects, like Starlink satellites, could fall and injure or kill someone, the FAA said in report to Congress." (I placed the emphasis)

It sounds like a combination of CYA and targeted fear mongering at the same time.

What I did find interesting, and something I haven't paid attention to in the past, is found later in the article. " In 2019, 0.5 percent of twilight images were affected, and now almost 20 percent are affected," Dr. Przemek Mróz said..." (again, the emphasis is mine).

That is a marked increase in effect in a short time. Given the fact Starlink is the most notable and numerous having been launched in the last few years, one might assume that is what has caused the increase. However, in the next statement Mroz says; "We don't expect Starlink satellites to affect non-twilight images, but if the satellite constellation of other companies goes into higher orbits, this could cause problems for non-twilight observations..." 😖

A lot of science reporting is pretty bad. But I’m not sure what your complaint about the reporting on the ruined images is.
 
To pile on, this quote from SpaceX’s reply is a burn:

“The fact that FAA simply accepted the Aerospace report without question or scrutiny raises concerns regarding FAA's technical competence to responsibly assess and regulate in this area."

Ouch. But seems appropriate.


Tony
I agree also. But still, it is not good to piss off the FAA.
 
A lot of science reporting is pretty bad. But I’m not sure what your complaint about the reporting on the ruined images is.
It's not a complaint. Just something I wasn't aware of. It's definitely something that should be considered. The thought is SpaceX will put 38K more satellites in orbit in the coming years along with the ~4K that are there now. That will double the number of tracked items (~20K). However, the Europeans (space agency) estimate the the number to be over 125M that aren't tracked...but who knows, they may be counting by the metric system...😏 Of course they are counting debris as small as 1 millimeter...
 
The idea that a Starlink satellite could survive reentry is ridiculous. Someone at the FAA dropped the ball thinking that was worthy of publication.
Agreed. As far as satellites go, Starlinks aren't terribly large... about 250 kg and a few square meters. Chances of re-entry survival are slim to none. They're definitely not a Skylab...
 
There have been some changes in the parameters of the probability calculations over the past several years that made many benign spacecraft technically “dangerous”. For example, they now include molten metal “raindrops” in the calculations. I had to change out a bunch of bolts in a design to remove titanium from our S/C to get it to pass the Orbital Debris requirements.

Also, you unfortunately don’t get to count controlled re-entry in the calculations as they are all based on an out of control, dead satellite returning rather than dropping them into Point Nemo.
 
There have been some changes in the parameters of the probability calculations over the past several years that made many benign spacecraft technically “dangerous”. For example, they now include molten metal “raindrops” in the calculations. I had to change out a bunch of bolts in a design to remove titanium from our S/C to get it to pass the Orbital Debris requirements.

Also, you unfortunately don’t get to count controlled re-entry in the calculations as they are all based on an out of control, dead satellite returning rather than dropping them into Point Nemo.

From what you are saying, I am interpreting that they use a material that reduces the amount of satellite reaching the surface of Earth. Is that correct?
 
Most of the earth's surface - land and sea - is desolate, doesn't have a human within many miles. We humans are largely clustered together. The planet has a surface area of over 200 million square miles. With a worldwide population of 8 billion, we want to believe that we densely carpet the earth's surface, but it just isn't so. I'm with ThirstyBarbarian, if you have the extraordinary luck (or lack of luck) to be struck by a falling satellite, you certainly deserve AT LEAST a free ride to the ISS. If you survive.
 
From what you are saying, I am interpreting that they use a material that reduces the amount of satellite reaching the surface of Earth. Is that correct?
Yes, exactly. We perform the calculations ourselves (at JPL) to see what the probability of things larger than certain sizes might survive. NASA pays someone like Aerospace to both do the calculations themselves and to check ours. We then sit down and go through all the differences and work them out. This usually results in changes to S/C design where we change materials or take something large and break it into bolted together smaller things so that it comes apart earlier in the de-orbit process and then the smaller pieces break up. This is totally normal and the fact that SpaceX is making a big deal of it is just them…nobody gets it right the first time, we usually take 3-4 iterations over a couple of years because the detailed inputs to the calculations change over time…things like the S/C design, the performance of the solar cycle, our orbital parameters, etc…
 
It's not a complaint. Just something I wasn't aware of. It's definitely something that should be considered. The thought is SpaceX will put 38K more satellites in orbit in the coming years along with the ~4K that are there now. That will double the number of tracked items (~20K). However, the Europeans (space agency) estimate the the number to be over 125M that aren't tracked...but who knows, they may be counting by the metric system...😏 Of course they are counting debris as small as 1 millimeter...
I hope we're all counting in the metric system. In 10's not 12's or bakers 13's.... :) Measure in whatever you want. But count in metric..... Unless there is a SPECIFIC requirement to use another base. :)
 
There have been some changes in the parameters of the probability calculations over the past several years that made many benign spacecraft technically “dangerous”. For example, they now include molten metal “raindrops” in the calculations. I had to change out a bunch of bolts in a design to remove titanium from our S/C to get it to pass the Orbital Debris requirements.

Also, you unfortunately don’t get to count controlled re-entry in the calculations as they are all based on an out of control, dead satellite returning rather than dropping them into Point Nemo.


Raindrops keep burnin’ through my head
But that doesn't mean my eyes will soon be turning dead
Dying's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop debris by complaining
Because I'm free
Nothing's worrying me

It won't be long till molten rain steps up to greet me
 
There have been some changes in the parameters of the probability calculations over the past several years that made many benign spacecraft technically “dangerous”. For example, they now include molten metal “raindrops” in the calculations. I had to change out a bunch of bolts in a design to remove titanium from our S/C to get it to pass the Orbital Debris requirements.

Also, you unfortunately don’t get to count controlled re-entry in the calculations as they are all based on an out of control, dead satellite returning rather than dropping them into Point Nemo.

Safety first! Replace that titanium with tungsten!
 
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