ICEs and EVs
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It may be somewhat related to couponing or being frugal where the savings is more important than time expended....
Why anyone would want to sit at a charging station is beyond my ability to understand. I feel like these same people enjoyed sitting in lines waiting for gas in the 70's.
Sorry but time is the most precious thing we have and I'm not wasting it waiting in some line. Guess this is also why I don't do amusement parks or stick around if a restaurant tells me there's a wait.
My friend has a PIH and often sits at a local charger. He routinely mentions to me how much he gets in mpg same as we might talk about getting some rocket at a great price.
If I had a PIH or EV and more time, I'd probably do the same just for the fun of it. Free isn't a bad price lol
Agree completely and would add, please don’t support policies that make me pay for your choices.
cbrarick
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I would have no problem if my wife wanted a EV, but we'd have to build a detached garage for it because I'm not burning my house down for it. I know it doesn't happen often, but not worth the chances for me.
And I'll keep my ram 3500 diesel.......it's got towing capacity and legs..
And I'll keep my ram 3500 diesel.......it's got towing capacity and legs..
boatgeek
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As long as we’re talking about rare events, what about CO poisoning? A friend of mine lost both parents last year to an ICE accidentally left running in an attached garage. You never think it will happen to you…
Speaking of which, CO poisoning is a common cause of death of people stuck in snow in ICEs. They run the car to stay warm and occasionally the tailpipe is blocked by snow.
Choice is fine. I support the ability to choose.
Except when it comes to choosing Freon for your car A/C, DDT for your garden pesticide, and burning your yard waste in a back yard incinerator.
Those "choices" are no longer available for good reason.
Live and let live.
dr wogz
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for the record, we see one or two deaths (infants & young children) due to this: the parent put the kids in the car, start it to warm it (and them) up, and end up killing them with a block exhausts while they 'dig out' the car (from a snow bank)..
https://globalnews.ca/news/2484486/...assaic, NJ mother and,four-door Mazda on Jan.
https://globalnews.ca/news/2484486/...assaic, NJ mother and,four-door Mazda on Jan.
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What does this have to do with people showing up to SuperChargers with cold soaked batteries in a low state of charge?
“Common”. The CDC Provisional Data put death from CO poisoning at 1,244 people in 2022 of which 579 were suicides and 624 accidental. That’s for all CO poisoning (cars, faulty furnaces, improperly ventilated fireplaces/stoves, etc) of which people stuck in snow with a blocked tailpipe would be a small fraction. Yea it happens and is tragic but “common”? Not really.
He was responding to a statement about lithium battery fires.
Both are infrequent but if you cite one then you must also cite the other to be fair.
The post about lithium battery fires specifically said “I know it doesn’t happen often”, which is true, while the post about CO poisoning from a blocked tailpipe referred to it as “common”, which is not true . . . to be fair as you say.
And the post about CO poisoning said "Speaking of rare events....."
To be fair.
Yep. Probably should have stuck with that rather than going on to then say they are “common”.
boatgeek
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What I meant was that of the subset of people who die in cars stuck in snow, CO poisoning is a significant fraction of that subset. Apologies for not making that clear.
That said, as best as I can tell, there has been a grand total of 1 death related to an EV catching fire while charging. Not 1/year, 1. So CO deaths from ICEs are still orders of magnitude more common.
Probably nothing. My post was more in terms of how Norway has 80+% new car purchases being EVs in the video I was replying to.
I don't see how mode of electrical production has anything to do with it.Probably nothing. My post was more in terms of how Norway has 80+% new car purchases being EVs in the video I was replying to.
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And now there's this....EV's and the threat to national security.
https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/23...ty_Leader_Letter_to_President_Biden.pdf?p=pdf
https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/23...ty_Leader_Letter_to_President_Biden.pdf?p=pdf
cbrarick
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this article really does a fair job comparing Norway to US.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...sn&cvid=7c48b5501e774cbaa7624f90dc13adc0&ei=8
so, we're just missing the home ownership with 90% charging station installation, the infrastructure and need to shorten down drive times.
seems easy peasy to me.........
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...sn&cvid=7c48b5501e774cbaa7624f90dc13adc0&ei=8
so, we're just missing the home ownership with 90% charging station installation, the infrastructure and need to shorten down drive times.
seems easy peasy to me.........
You do realize that you cited a pro EV article right?
From the article:
"but at the end of the day, it all comes down to the lack of EV-oriented education and lackluster charging infrastructure."
"There are lessons to be learned from the country which has the biggest EV adoption rate in the world."
So are we going to learn the lessons the Norwegians have to teach us, or not?Infrastructure is lacking because US adoption rate is under 10%.
As EVs become more ubiquitous the charging infrastructure will become more robust.
And lack of EV oriented education can be fixed.
Stupid cannot.
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Norway has a population of about 5.8 million with a very high population density where people actually live. I do not think the Norway example is scalable or remotely close to simulating what the EV entitlement of the US could be. We will see, actually some of us will see, I don't think I will.
cbrarick
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Why, yes I dd know it was pro - ev.....but it also did a fair comparison of Norway to the United States, and one that couldn't be impugned as being anti-EV.
My point was that the two countries are not similar, and those differences allow much greater EV use in Norway.
our much lower rates of single family houses, houses with EV chargers, longer commutes and drive times as well as lack of infrastructure all make EV's impractical at this time for a large segment of the American population.
My point was that the two countries are not similar, and those differences allow much greater EV use in Norway.
our much lower rates of single family houses, houses with EV chargers, longer commutes and drive times as well as lack of infrastructure all make EV's impractical at this time for a large segment of the American population.
The article you cited comes to a different conclusion than you.
Again:
"but at the end of the day, it all comes down to the lack of EV-oriented education and lackluster charging infrastructure."
Lower % of homes with EV chargers and lack of infrastructure is a direct result of lower EV adoption rate here. That is changing and EVs are climbing as a percent of the passenger vehicles on the road every year.
And the US does not have a "much lower" rate of single family homes. 2 out of 3 US residents live in a single family home where a charger could be installed. 3 out of 4 Norwegians live in a single family home. So the US is lower, but not "much lower". If you go to around the 7:40 mark in Greg's video in post #1372 you will see how Norway guaranteed the right to charger access for their residents who live in apartments. Our politicians here can learn from this. Also the spokeswoman mentioned how early on, their infrastructure was lagging behind the number of EVs on the road. Same as in the US. When the Norwegians became proactive rather than reactive to the infrastructure situation that changed through laws and incentives. Last year the % of EV sales climbed but the # of EVs per charger actually DECREASED.
Average US commute is 50 miles. Average EV range is currently 250 miles and rising every year. Why is that a problem? If I owned an EV I would just top it off a couple of times a week, while I sleep.
No, the difference in adoption rates between the two countries IS NOT because of different driving conditions. It's because the Norwegian people and government went all in on EVs.
As your article stated, perhaps we can learn much from them.
If only this issue wasn't so politicized.
Laters.
modeltrains
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That would require a political system which had and has always refused to touch transportation and infrastructure with that proverbial ten foot pole.
cbrarick
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Hmm. Not so much in America.
There's a document from our past - perhaps one you are quite familiar- that lays out the rights of all Americans. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
I don't see a right to access to a EV charger in there.
We often confuse rights and privileges. Unless the US starts guaranteeing access to gas stations (hmm, government gas stations, sounds like fun) then how do we guarantee the right to access to another form of power for vehicles? By extension, does that mean the right to CNG (compressed natural gas) for every citizen, and the right to hydrogen access for fuel cell vehicles? Propane for propane powered vehicles? I've seen them all on the roads near me.
Nor do I see a right to access a gas station in there.
But while we're talking about documents, perhaps you've heard of the Americans with Disabilities Act?
That is one of many examples of our government guaranteeing the right of a group of people to access to something.
It is far from unprecedented, and courts have ruled in favor of their legality.
And preventing discrimination is about as American as you can get.
I'm proud to be an American because of this country's ideals.
Aren't you?
cbrarick
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Really? I spent 9 years defending your right to write whatever you want and am proud to be a disabled vet.
We do not currently have any right to access anything run by the private sector.
If I have a bug up my butt I can deny you service, as long as I don't say why. (which may be construed as discrimination)
I have no problems with ADA which provides access to public buildings.
That's different then forcing those businesses to do business with me.
Guaranteeing you a plug is having the government tell me who i have to do business with. The slope is pretty slippery - demanding business put in charging stations in order to have that access they are talking about. Or the government would have to get in the charging business, which would be patiently unfair to all of us who don't have a EV and would disproportionately effect people of lower income because they can't afford EV's....
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You are forgetting that electricity is currently a public utility for almost every business, so certain guarantees to access can be added.
There are lots of instances where the government requires something to be done for the greater good.
It is NOT a slippery slope.
Courts have upheld laws instigated for the greater good innumerable times.
And would you characterize the homeowners' tax deduction as unfair to the homeless who don't own property?
Many examples like that exist.
Most of us are glad to take those specific exemptions.
It helped me pay off my mortgage early.
How about state tax funding for public schools?
Is that unfair to people who don't have kids?
Or parents that send their kids to private schools?
Of course not.
Again, the greater good is served.
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cbrarick
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no.
Electricity is a utility which has a monopoly but is owned by the PRIVATE sector, not the government.
I pay my electric bill to them based on usage and maintenance of service.
You would have businesses having to install and run chargers? Not likely, I'm not in that business and wants nothing to do with it.
Make the building owner put in chargers? There is no outside power in the brick building i was in.
so, now how you gonna do that?
boatgeek
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Heavily dependent on where you live. Out west, there are an awful lot of city-owned utilities (eg Seattle City Light) or county public utilities. There are also private utilities, but those are not universal.
For starters, you would require that all new buildings or major renovations would require some percentage of parking spots have outside chargers, much like the ADA did for disabled access.
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