ICEs and EVs

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"It shows up as unavailable. We can't watch it."


It shows up for me right now if I go to youtube and look for it.
Go to youtube and paste this into the search box: GgU494nl5Fc
 
It's about a driver of a hybrid car in New Zealand who recharges using a public slow charger and the charger company imposes a 25 cents a minute "parking fee".
So for a 2 hour charge he pays a $30 parking fee completely unrelated to electricity.
Atypical.
 
Here is a big rant concerning fires involving EV batteries. I don't know how true any of it is because I'm not a chemist but I know that there can be heat problems with LiIon batteries. If all of this is true I wonder how long before there is a big EV fire in an underground parking garage, and how long before that the garage owners forbid EVs from parking there.



John Cardigan is a well respected journalist who resigned from an Australian motoring magazine after being told a manufacturer would drop their advertising if he didn’t give them a favourable review.

He has more knowledge and integrity than most people.

People may not like his style or even his content, but he doesn’t spread rumours or misinformation.
 
Here is another video I mentioned earlier, I was not remembering some of the details correctly. This is TFL on youtube, trying to charge a new Cadillac in Park City, UT. They're having trouble getting the charger to work, and they conclude "it shouldn't be this hard". "This may be more of a test of the app than... ". "EVGo I would consider this a fail". "This is why people get frustrated with the current state of charging in America".



I don't follow these guys but watch their videos occasionally, I'm actually more interested in their offroad-oriented content. To be fair they have more recent videos discussing various developments in charging networks.
 
Here is another video I mentioned earlier, I was not remembering some of the details correctly. This is TFL on youtube, trying to charge a new Cadillac in Park City, UT. They're having trouble getting the charger to work, and they conclude "it shouldn't be this hard". "This may be more of a test of the app than... ". "EVGo I would consider this a fail". "This is why people get frustrated with the current state of charging in America".
You will notice at the beginning of the video that it is sponsored by Flo Charge, and they are knocking Ev
Go, a competitor.
Also the guy says when he first tries charging that he doesn't have a credit card to swipe (!), so he will have to use a payment app. And then he runs into problems.
Who doesn't carry a major credit card in their wallet?
Later he says that if this was a gas station all you would have to do is put the nozzle in the gas tank, swipe a credit card and start fueling.
So this looks like a setup situation to knock Flo Charge's competition.
If he had just swiped a credit card it probably would have been just as easy as fueling up at a gas station.
 
If you think that's bad I just saw a video the other day of a woman who pulls into a gas station in a Tesla. She unhooks the nozzle from the pump and is looking high and low for the gas filler pipe opening.
:facepalm:
it's under the 710 cap..

or a manuf's 'ID-10-T' issue..

but is likely a 'PEBKAC' software bug..


:D
 
So the guy didn't do his homework and bought a hybrid EV with a battery range of 25 km for a daily round trip of 50km.
If he had bought a full BEV with a range of 350 km he would have only had to charge once a week at home and never use a public charger.
That's a good point but I think the vehicle type will vary depending on the person's needs and we don't know what all of his needs are.

My wife for instance mostly drives very close to our house but in the past we have relied on her 11 year old car for long trips where charging could be a problem. I think for that use case a plug-in hybrid makes the most sense. You can get the benefits of the EV when that makes sense, and get the benefits of the ICE when that makes sense. One of my cars I drive mostly around town and drive to my office, a full EV could work for that. My other car is a Jeep Wrangler that I bought specifically for Jeep trails and camping in Colorado and Utah, because there are no charging stations out there that car has to be ICE. So to me those are the 3 main use cases and each requires a different vehicle type.

I changed oil in all 3 vehicles over the past few days. Looking at my records I noticed that my wife's car has driven 4100 miles in the past 19 months. This doesn't sound like much but it was more than I expected. I seem to drive more than she does but I found that my little car had only gone 3700 miles in 19 months. OTOH the Jeep has averaged 1000 miles per month.
 
If you think that's bad I just saw a video the other day of a woman who pulls into a gas station in a Tesla. She unhooks the nozzle from the pump and is looking high and low for the gas filler pipe opening.
My daughter rented a BMW X5 recently for a business trip. At first we couldn't figure out if it was hybrid or electric. We finally found that it had a charging port and a gas cap. She was driving it far enough that she had to buy gas on the return trip so we wanted to be sure we knew what it was before she left.
 
So the guy didn't do his homework and bought a hybrid EV with a battery range of 25 km for a daily round trip of 50km.
If he had bought a full BEV with a range of 350 km he would have only had to charge once a week at home and never use a public charger.
Duh.
I think the real issue here is abusive and/or non-disclosed parking fees by the charging station owner.
 
I think the real issue here is abusive and/or non-disclosed parking fees by the charging station owner.
I'm going to expand it to be any practice by the charging station owner that makes things worse for the customer.
 
But that's a reflection on the business, not the technology right?
Some idiots think the charging station doubles as a parking spot and leave their cars there all day, blocking anyone else from using it. They are charging extra for the time the car is there after the charge is complete to encourage people to move them to a regular spot.
 
Some idiots think the charging station doubles as a parking spot and leave their cars there all day, blocking anyone else from using it. They are charging extra for the time the car is there after the charge is complete to encourage people to move them to a regular spot.
So the charging company should be charging 25 cents a minute after the battery is fully charged, not 25 cents per minute from plug in..
And the video link posting implies that EV charging technology sucked and is keeping users away from buying EVs when it's this charger company's practices that suck and is not typical of the charging situation, at least in the US.
 
But that's a reflection on the business, not the technology right?

But that's a reflection on the business, not the technology right?

Probably.

I'd expect anyone supplying a charging station, to 'charge' what they can (so to speak, no pun intended). The chargers aren't there for the greater good, they are present to make a little money like a gas pump for those with the capital to provide a location/resource for those efforts.

Until there's some (well entrenched) competition, I'd expect some costs to reflect reality plus a little, or perhaps, a lot for those that want a short term grab. After competition sets in, and the subsidies end, the money will calm down, and we'll start to recognize what all this stuff really costs.

By practice, anything that is better for a supplier is usually worse for the customer, and vice versa, also, subsidies twist the ability of anyone to determine the financial viability of a charging station. This makes it very difficult to determine appropriate costs, and plan long term effective distribution systems. Until all this is settled, I'd expect wild variations in costs, depending on level of subsidization.

Access to the location is a different question, and if that is the monetary basis, I can understand why someone wouldn't want a car loitering when they could be charging another.

Edit FYI:---At our local airport, there are Tesla charging stations very close to the terminal entrance with the Handicapped spots. Tesla and EV owners park there, period. 12 slots per level with maybe one charging, yet sitting for days at a time in the closest slots to the terminal, yet they don't use the chargers, they rely on them....just in case.

Seems like there's some room for improvement.
 
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Until there's some (well entrenched) competition, I'd expect some costs to reflect reality plus a little, or perhaps, a lot for those that want a short term grab. After competition sets in, and the subsidies end, the money will calm down, and we'll start to recognize what all this stuff really costs.
Actually price discovery market action is already starting to happen. Recent price cuts by Tesla, Ford and GM (often well below the cost of production of the latter 2) is proof that value is being defined. Problem for Ford, GM, VW, BMW etc is that value is being defined below cost for now.
 
So the charging company should be charging 25 cents a minute after the battery is fully charged, not 25 cents per minute from plug in..
And the video link posting implies that EV charging technology sucked and is keeping users away from buying EVs when it's this charger company's practices that suck and is not typical of the charging situation, at least in the US.
I like the idea of a base price to rent the square footage, plus a price for the energy. That would prevent people from using the spot for parking only. Unless they pay. Specific prices could depend on location.
Probably.

I'd expect anyone supplying a charging station, to 'charge' what they can (so to speak, no pun intended). The chargers aren't there for the greater good, they are present to make a little money like a gas pump for those with the capital to provide a location/resource for those efforts.
They’re a money-making business with the additional competitive advantage over gas stations of also being better for the greater good.

I'd expect some costs to reflect reality plus a little, or perhaps, a lot for those that want a short term grab. After competition sets in, and the subsidies end, the money will calm down, and we'll start to recognize what all this stuff really costs.
Same can be said about gasoline. I buy none of the subsidies stuff. It’s the gvt’s job to collect and distribute money. We could go on railing about how we would spend tax money literally anywhere, but we don’t because that’s politics.

By practice, anything that is better for a supplier is usually worse for the customer, and vice versa, also, subsidies twist the ability of anyone to determine the financial viability of a charging station. This makes it very difficult to determine appropriate costs, and plan long term effective distribution systems. Until all this is settled, I'd expect wild variations in costs, depending on level of subsidization.
Again, same can be said about gasoline. Subsidies are for another thread.

Actually price discovery market action is already starting to happen. Recent price cuts by Tesla, Ford and GM (often well below the cost of production of the latter 2) is proof that value is being defined. Problem for Ford, GM, VW, BMW etc is that value is being defined below cost for now.
Tesla has been breaking conventions to reduce cost of production, making it very hard for others to catch up. Bigger factories, more efficient manufacturing methods allowed by batteries, varying cost of minerals, and interest rates all affect car prices heavily.

🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡🔥⚡

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/0...es-him-to-start-an-electric-vehicle-festival/
 
Latest from the U.K. Is realty, physics and economics starting to change UK public opinion?

Parts of the UK’s Net Zero program include a requirement for 22% of motor vehicle sales to be EVs by next year, and a ban on new gasoline-powered cars by 2030. From the Sun, August 2:

Net Zero Secretary Grant Shapps was yesterday forced to admit the National Grid is hopelessly underpowered for the challenge of charging up millions more electric vehicles. And Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch is warning — along with car manufacturers — that an arbitrary requirement for 22 per cent of all car sales to be electric by NEXT YEAR is risking jobs and investment. . . . [A]s ex-Cabinet minister Jacob Rees-Mogg argues, if the PM were to back The Sun and put the brakes on net zero as part of his 2024 election manifesto, it would be popular with voters. And it could well get him back on the road to victory.
 
Just goes to show you that anti-EV misinformation and fear-mongering are not just a US thing. :)

The myth that EV adoption in the US would overwhelm the electric grid has been debunked already. The debunking applies to the UK as well as the US. In fact, the UK is in better shape to benefit from more EVs because most of their EVs already support bidirectional charge ports and they will require all new homes to include charging infrastructure. This will allow power companies to borrow electricity from EVs during periods of high demand and give it back to the vehicles during periods of low demand.
 
I posted this on another thread a while back. but it bears repeating here:
In the early '60s only a small minority of homes had air conditioning.
Now most homes do.
The power grid expanded its' generating capacity to meet the demand.
It will do the same for EVs.
And from Scientific American:
"Time-of-use pricing encourages EV owners to charge their vehicles during off-peak hours, rewarding them with lower rates for doing so. And vehicle-to-grid or vehicle-to-home technology can allow certain EVs to sell electricity from their battery back to the grid during times of need, or to power a home during an outage."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
 
I posted this on another thread a while back. but it bears repeating here:
In the early '60s only a small minority of homes had air conditioning.
Now most homes do.
The power grid expanded its' generating capacity to meet the demand.
It will do the same for EVs.
The small difference is that during the 60's the nation was greatly expanding electrical production with massive additions of firm 24/7 fossil fuel and nuclear power generation. Now we are decommissioning these firm 24/7 power generators and replacing them with intermittent power sources. NYISO knows a thing or 2 about grids is raising the alarm in NY.

https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/nyiso-new-york-electric-grid-remains-at-risk/
The reason why is no mystery – under existing state environmental policies, the state is losing reliable electricity generation resources faster than new ones are being brought on line.

Fortunately, it seems that American's at large really do not want EV's as evidenced by the poor sales of Ford, GMand European offerings. It seems people really want Teslas, not EV's broadly. So our grid will remain at marginal capacity (instead of robust capacity) for a while longer.
 
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