How old do you think these are?
- Thread starter rockets
- Start date
I believe they are illegal to ship without the appropriate credentials so don't bother. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. Kurt
April 1976 date stamp seen on some of them. Don't buy them. May have been temperature cycled and are a CATO
risk in that regard. (The propellant cracks increasing surface area and burn rate = kaboom!)
April 1976 date stamp seen on some of them. Don't buy them. May have been temperature cycled and are a CATO
risk in that regard. (The propellant cracks increasing surface area and burn rate = kaboom!)
rockets
Well-Known Member
cavecentral
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2011
- Messages
- 3,145
- Reaction score
- 35
Blue Diamond probably 70s. Pink likely 80s. Loose ???
How do you know the seller doesn't have proper hazmat creds? Or are you just assuming?
rockets
Well-Known Member
WOW! Those are old! The oldest motors I have are the Estes 1999 C5-3 motors.
Thanks,
Assuming. If you want to risk some of your modrocs, be my guest. I look at the guy/gal's other listings and might not be aware of shipping requirements.
Andrew, I have some batches going back to the mid-1960's and wouldn't consider attempting to launch them. They have the old English classification as
opposed the the Newtonian classification that occurred in the late '60's. B8-6, B8-0 or 1/2A8-2 anyone? Even have a few of the "shorty" 18mm motors of yore.
Kurt
rockets
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2012
- Messages
- 1,536
- Reaction score
- 312
I'm pretty sure eBay prohibits selling of motors on their site? So I would expect this to be taken down before the auction is completed.
Zeus-cat
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 4,876
- Reaction score
- 1,200
From ebay guideline and policies:
Allowed
Books on fireworks, including books on how to make fireworks
Chemistry books
Restricted
Combustible items that the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) has identified as ORM-D (Other Regulated Materials-Domestic) have to include specific shipping restrictions in an eBay listing. (See the USPS website for mailing requirements.)
Firework labels that are no longer attached to a firework
Model rockets that have no engines
Pyrotechnic devices that have no combustible materials (such as control devices, launchers, or tubes)
Not allowed
Black powder
Caps for toy guns
Combustible materials that the USPS has prohibited for shipping
Explosive fuses
Fireworks, including dummy fireworks
Exploding targets
Flares (both projectile and road flares)
Flash paper
Red phosphorous
Thermite
Based on the above I believe that model rocket engines are not allowed to be sold.
E-bay does not allow selling of motors Period;
That said: I have and fly often motors from back in the 1960's. As Long as motors have not be subjected to Heat Cycling they are as good as the day they were made.
I have noticed on some of my 13mm B Centuri motors that one needs to scratch an X in the clay cap as they become super hard and will not break through at ejection. other then that most of the OOP motor I fly perform as well as the ones purchased from a trusted vendor in late fall, winter or early spring. That way i'ms sure the motors I've purchased haven't spent a week or so in at Tractor Trailer where the ambient air temp can reach 145degrees f.
Another factor to consider when buying motors is to plan on flying them in ambient air temps not less the 70degrees cooler then the highest temperature to which that motor as been exposed. This is critical for 24mm motors and some 18mm. As long as you fly you motors within this temperature range even Heat Cycled motors can be used. I've taken 2- 3pks of D12-3's that were intentionally heat cycled in my van (130deg f ) for about 1 week one summer. then flew them in Junk models the following spring , making sure to stay with ambient Air Temps above 60degs. 5 flew just fine without a cato. one that was flown on a 45deg day Cato'ed amost at ignition.
Hope this helps a give a little context to the Heat Cycling problem. and it is an on-going problem for the uninformed.
That said: I have and fly often motors from back in the 1960's. As Long as motors have not be subjected to Heat Cycling they are as good as the day they were made.
I have noticed on some of my 13mm B Centuri motors that one needs to scratch an X in the clay cap as they become super hard and will not break through at ejection. other then that most of the OOP motor I fly perform as well as the ones purchased from a trusted vendor in late fall, winter or early spring. That way i'ms sure the motors I've purchased haven't spent a week or so in at Tractor Trailer where the ambient air temp can reach 145degrees f.
Another factor to consider when buying motors is to plan on flying them in ambient air temps not less the 70degrees cooler then the highest temperature to which that motor as been exposed. This is critical for 24mm motors and some 18mm. As long as you fly you motors within this temperature range even Heat Cycled motors can be used. I've taken 2- 3pks of D12-3's that were intentionally heat cycled in my van (130deg f ) for about 1 week one summer. then flew them in Junk models the following spring , making sure to stay with ambient Air Temps above 60degs. 5 flew just fine without a cato. one that was flown on a 45deg day Cato'ed amost at ignition.
Hope this helps a give a little context to the Heat Cycling problem. and it is an on-going problem for the uninformed.
I emailed the seller and he got pretty offensive when I asked if he could legally sell/ship rocket motors. He said he could ship motors & it's not the buyers concern.
Anyone who bids of 40+ year old black powder motors for any purpose other than collecting is an out-and-out fool. Look at the crushed, torn, and raggedy packaging. Not even worth collecting due to the packaging conditions.
Gus
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 1,807
- Reaction score
- 243
I notice that you are from "somewhere in Ohio" and the ebay seller is from Sylvania, Ohio. If you are interested and close, send him a private message indicating you'd be willing to come pick them up. Ebay makes it very difficult for you to send your email address to another ebay member so you will have to camouflage your email address.
As to the safety of flying old motors, it depends on how they've been stored. If the ones for sale have been sitting in a garage for years, they will be a problem. If they've been sitting in a dry basement, probably not.
Last June we had a fun event at JMRC flying old Estes Diamond Pack 18mm 1/2 A6-0s and 1/2 A6-4s. We flew them with NAR permission (VERY easy to get, thanks NAR) under the old motor program. We had ~20 participants flying spot landing, streamer duration, and altimeter altitude. Out of 45+ motors we had only two anomalies (one off center thrust and one no second stage ignition). We recorded data from each flight and submitted it to NAR. No catos. All the motors were from 1972-74 and came from an old hobby shop, well stored motors.
That event was so successful that we will be running another this July with 13mm Centuri motors from the 1970s. Estes Diamond Pack A10-0Ts to Centuri 1/2 A4-5Ms. Should be a hoot! Really fun watching my JMRC brethren launch rockets with lower total impulse than many of their Level 2 and 3 igniters, LOL.
If you are interested in flying old motors go to: https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/NAR-Expired-Motor-Testing-Program.pdf
Zeus-cat
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 4,876
- Reaction score
- 1,200
That is a big red flag to me. I wouldn't buy from him for that reason alone.
Exactly, Those old Estes motors motors I commented above in post #7 I know have been temp cycled many times and only have them for sentimental reasons. I sure as heck wouldn't attempt to fly them.
Like John comments if he knows that motors have been stored properly their entire life, they're worth a shot and can work ok. If one doesn't know how they've been stored, other than collector's items they shouldn't be flown. Kurt
