Has anyone noticed high variability on the visuals of Skidmark motors?

[Bat-mite]

My all-time favorite sparky picture. Sorry, but I don't remember whose Patriot it was.

 

[markkoelsch]

I usually use AMW 38mm thru 98mm, but I also use Loki, Gorilla, Kosdon, and Tru-Core, and AG71 hardware as well.

But, if things work out right, I'll have to settle on one design of hardware!

Preston

Nobile Motors, inc?

 

[Steve Shannon]

I usually use AMW 38mm thru 98mm, but I also use Loki, Gorilla, Kosdon, and Tru-Core, and AG71 hardware as well.

But, if things work out right, I'll have to settle on one design of hardware!

Preston

I would urge you to design for the “AMW Family”, which allows cross-certification for Gorilla and for Loki with the right closures.
https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/CasingCrossCert.pdf

 

[markkoelsch]

I would urge you to design for the “AMW Family”, which allows cross-certification for Gorilla and for Loki with the right closures.
https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/CasingCrossCert.pdf

Agreed, that would make things easier.

Steve, Preston really does make the best sparkies[emoji573][emoji106]

 

[jimzcatz]

Nobile Motors, inc?

Come guys, its starring us right in the face... PMS.

Preston Motor Systems.
Sorry Preston, I couldn't resist!!!

 

[pnobile]

Come guys, its starring us right in the face... PMS.

Preston Motor Systems.
Sorry Preston, I couldn't resist!!!

Thanks everyone for the compliments! Just in the beginning stages of this venture, but things are looking good. I'll have a bunch of EX motors at MWP for the taking! But ya gotta fly Top Flight Recovery parachutes in your rocket if ya want a free motor!

Preston

 

[jimzcatz]

Preston, do you have a chute big enough? 65 pounds empty.

 

[mwtoelle]

I think the variability has largely to do with having a non uniform distribution of titanium chunks in the propellant.

Also, other variable in terms of propellant chemistry. Aerotech also has two sparky formulas- metal storm and dark matter.

For the record, Animal Motor Works made the best sparkies.

Currently, I think the best sparky is made by Preston Nobile.

Personally, I think the most impressive sparky motors were the Silver Streak motors from Rocketflite. Very low smoke and lots of sparks.

 

[jimzcatz]

Aerotech Dark Matter and Metalstorm are 2 totally different propellants and are sold and marketed as such. AMW and CTI make no such distinction. It's just luck as to which one you end up with.

 

[plugger]

We had two Skidmark launches yesterday at our final launch of the season. I flew a J381 and another club member flew an I Skidmark IIRC. Pics below.

All considered I was quite pleased with the amount of sparks.

Personally I consider Gorilla sparkies the be the gold standard. The O4475 Black Lightning is an absolute monster!

And video.

 

[larock69]

In my opinion nothing beats the original APS formula Spitfires.


And Paul Robinsons (R.I.P.)M2200 skidmarks were something you needed to experience live to believe.lol SR

 

[jimzcatz]

I have a few APS Spitties left, and have burned over a dozen M2200s in my day. You are right, you HAD to be there!!!

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Still have an original (late 80's) US Rockets J250 Firestarter. The case is enough oversize it won't even fit PML tube. (The others I had would fit PML tube, too big for others.)

 

[tbonerocketeer]

AMW and CTI both have 2 different skid propellants. An example, in AMW was the 3 grain J230 vs the 5 grain K555. Using 3 K555 grains in the 1050 case did not give a J230. (I found out when the J230s I purchased for the Deuce did not perform as expected. I found out later that he had used K555 grains.) Aer otech dark matter is like the slow skid.

Paul told us to do this for all of his 54mm motors.

 

[jimzcatz]

Paul told you to do what?

 

[tbonerocketeer]

Paul told you to do what?

Make the appropriate motor needed with his 54mm grains. He said if you have a 5g motor And need a 3, here's extra liners. Let me know what you break apart and ill fix you back up. On one of my orders he gave me a bunch of 3 grain motors sealed and some extra liners since I had ordered 5 grain loads and he didn't have Any bagged.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Thanks everyone for the compliments! Just in the beginning stages of this venture, but things are looking good. I'll have a bunch of EX motors at MWP for the taking! But ya gotta fly Top Flight Recovery parachutes in your rocket if ya want a free motor!

Preston

Please be sure you follow the rules in the Tripoli Research Safety Code regarding providing research motors to others. It’s not allowed unless the person who makes the motor is a member of the project team.
In order to provide demonstration motors you must be accepted as a motor manufacturer by NAR S&T or Tripoli TMT.

 

[GRIFFIN]

Are these “Demonstration” motors here? Or are we just talking about giving the person a gift?

If he isn’t a manufacturer, it’s just a friend making the motor for a friend, right?

 

[pnobile]

Please be sure you follow the rules in the Tripoli Research Safety Code regarding providing research motors to others. It’s not allowed unless the person who makes the motor is a member of the project team.
In order to provide demonstration motors you must be accepted as a motor manufacturer by NAR S&T or Tripoli TMT.

Steve

Thanks for the post. All receiptiants of these EX motors, have been or will be present during mixing sessions. We do group mix sessions and all involved have an equal part in making them.

We mix various propellants in a mix day so anyone involved in the mix can pick what they want to fly.....

Preston

 

[FredA]

Or....put Preston's name on the flight card assuming he is at the launch. Done.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Steve

Thanks for the post. All receiptiants of these EX motors, have been or will be present during mixing sessions. We do group mix sessions and all involved have an equal part in making them.

We mix various propellants in a mix day so anyone involved in the mix can pick what they want to fly.....

Preston

Then you are well within the RSC. Thanks for that!

 

[Steve Shannon]

Are these “Demonstration” motors here? Or are we just talking about giving the person a gift?

If he isn’t a manufacturer, it’s just a friend making the motor for a friend, right?

Not quite. Certified motors may be given as gifts. Demo motors may only be provided by real motor manufacturers, meaning they have their business license, ex numbers, etc., all the things that must be in place before submitting a motor for certification.
As far as friends giving friends motors, I know that’s sometimes done, but the Tripoli Research Safety Code specifies that Research Motors are for personal use and that they must not be sold for a profit. It also says that a Research Motor may be provided to others as part of a project if the person who made the motor is part of the project team and makes no profit on the motor. Cost of materials may be charged. So if friends are giving friends motors, they should be part of a project together to stay within the letter of the Safety Codes. I suspect those rules are to prevent someone from making motors and selling them for a profit and skirt the costs and other responsibilities of real manufacturers.
Over the years the requirements have been reduced. It used to be that if someone provided someone else with a motor, they had to be physically present when the motor was burned.

 

[GRIFFIN]

Preston isn’t selling any motor for any sort of profit. At this point hasn’t ever even charged me even for the materials. Me flying one of his motors in my rocket makes him automatically part of the project by default. I understand there are rules against people selling EX motors but that is not anywhere close to what’s going on here.

 

[ksaves2]

I think the variability has largely to do with having a non uniform distribution of titanium chunks in the propellant.

Also, other variable in terms of propellant chemistry. Aerotech also has two sparky formulas- metal storm and dark matter.

For the record, Animal Motor Works made the best sparkies.

Currently, I think the best sparky is made by Preston Nobile.

What Mark said. I was told AMW was able to get a hold of a supply of titanium that really worked well that had all the characteristics that Mark mentions above. When that supply was used up
things weren't quite the same. If someone has a "killer" sparky formula they might just keep it the themself!

They are fun to watch but beat the heck out of nozzles and waste energy. I don't think anyone uses a sparky for any kind of record attempt. It's a "novelty" motor. Kurt

 

[Steve Shannon]

Preston isn’t selling any motor for any sort of profit. At this point hasn’t ever even charged me even for the materials. Me flying one of his motors in my rocket makes him automatically part of the project by default. I understand there are rules against people selling EX motors but that is not anywhere close to what’s going on here.

Preston already said that and I already accepted that.
As far as giving someone a motor automatically making someone part of a project, that’s cannot be assumed and I’m sure the insurance company wouldn’t accept that as an assumption if it came up. Being part of a project implies that a person is accepting a measure of responsibility (or liability) for that project. Having a name on a flight card would help to document the participation but certainly there are other ways.

 

[GRIFFIN]

Preston already said that and I already accepted that.
As far as giving someone a motor automatically making someone part of a project, that’s cannot be assumed and I’m sure the insurance company wouldn’t accept that as an assumption if it came up. Being part of a project implies that a person is accepting a measure of responsibility (or liability) for that project. Having a name on a flight card would help to document the participation but certainly there are other ways.

Ok, I think we agree here and I understand.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Ok, I think we agree here and I understand.

Great, thanks!

 

[Andrew_ASC]

I about fell over laughing at HARA during the flyers meet when one guy asked Sparkies. They all grumbled about these were new rails. One guy was like if you want to fly sparkies then you gotta use a beater rail and clean it yourself. I guess the variability isn’t so much of a problem if it destroys new rails. Sheesh, I’m not into sparkies yet.

 

[Nytrunner]

I about fell over laughing at HARA during the flyers meet when one guy asked Sparkies. They all grumbled about these were new rails. One guy was like if you want to fly sparkies then you gotta use a beater rail and clean it yourself. I guess the variability isn’t so much of a problem if it destroys new rails. Sheesh, I’m not into sparkies yet.

Come on over next month and I'll let you clean the rail after I fly a couple skidmarks on it

 

[boatgeek]

Come on over next month and I'll let you clean the rail after I fly a couple skidmarks on it

The club I fly with tries to keep all of the sparkies and smokies on one pad to limit the foulness in the post-launch cleanup.