# "Handbook of Model Rocketry"

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#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
I started this thread to discuss the book "Handbook of Model Rocketry" by G Harry Stine....... My wife got it for me for christmas and I am just now starting to read it......

A few thoughts from what little I have read so far......

I wonder if Mr. Stine will put out another edition soon..... It has been 10 years since the 6th edition..........

It was stated that every state except Rhode Island has "adopted permissive state laws based on the National Fire Protection Association's NFPA 1122" ..... Is this still true? Does this mean people in Rhode Island can't fly rockets?

Well, I want to read some more....... So far, it's a great book...... I would say if you don't have a copy, go get one....... I mean it is the "NAR Official Handbook"!!!!!

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Well, that would be hard for him...since he died a few yers back.

His son Bill Stine now owns Quest so maybe he can come out with a new edition.

sandman

#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by sandman
Well, that would be hard for him...since he died a few yers back.

His son Bill Stine now owns Quest so maybe he can come out with a new edition.
Oh man...... I get the impression he was a major force in the birth of "model rocketry" Yea, I hope his son keeps up the business.......

#### cydermaster

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Rocketmaniac
...... I would say if you don't have a copy, go get one.......
So do I, and (I imagine) almost everybody here will say the same.

Some of it is a bit long in the tooth, but 95% of the book is still very relavent today. I've yet to find another book as comprehensive, and useful, on the subject of Model Rocketry.

#### WiK

It certianly is a great book. Ive got it on a kinda permentant loan from the library! (Yes, a British public library does have a book about rocketry )

As for a 7th edition, on amazon.co.uk if you search "Handbook of Model Rocketry" you get the sixth edition at the top, and no 2 is the 7th edition!! it says it comes out 1st April and under the authors name, it says ~Stine rather than the ~G. Harry Stine under the sixth edition!!

Also, I have borrowed Stuart Lodge's Model Rocketry Handbook. Basically its a shortened down version of Stines book with more emphasis on competition rockets. Not really worth buying.

Phil

#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by WiK
As for a 7th edition, on amazon.co.uk if you search "Handbook of Model Rocketry" you get the sixth edition at the top, and no 2 is the 7th edition!! it says it comes out 1st April and under the authors name, it says ~Stine rather than the ~G. Harry Stine under the sixth edition!!
If you look on the pic of the cover it says.... "G Harry Stine and Bill Stine" so I guess it was started before Mr Stine died and finished by his son......... The us amazon doesn't show anything about the 7th edition.........

#### Micromeister

##### Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Originally posted by Rocketmaniac
Oh man...... I get the impression he was a major force in the birth of "model rocketry" Yea, I hope his son keeps up the business.......
Mr Stine's NAR number was 002 if that tells you anything. He was intead the founder of the NAR and it's driving force for many years, it is due to his work with the NFPA and other govenment agencies that we have a hobby.
You can not do any better than the "Hand book of Rocketry" to get to the root of the subject. I strongly suggest everyone have a copy, Any edititon will do, I have copies back to edition 2 they are all chock full at the knowledge needed to build and fly in this great hobbysport of ours.

#### graylensman

##### Well-Known Member
If there's any negative thing to say about the 6th edition is that occasionally Mr. Stine seems to be writing down to a younger readership. But that's easily overlooked: my copy is sitting on top of the fridge, where I can peruse it while stirring a sauce or waiting for something in the oven to bake.

Our library has a copy of the 4th edition, and it contains material later edited out - such as Mr. Stine's seven-motor cluster job...

#### powderburner

##### Well-Known Member
If I remember right, I think the earlier editions include warnings to stay away from home-made motors. Don't you know, those things are extremely DANGEROUS!!!
It is kind of funny to see how some parts of the hobby have changed over the years.

The part of the book that I strongly recommend is the reference material at the end. In all the editions I have seen, Stine includes the equations for estimating the stability of rocket shapes. It is pretty simple to program these methods into an EXCEL spreadsheet, or even to just run the eqns by hand, and you can perform your own stability estimate without spending $100 on software. #### shockwaveriderz ##### Well-Known Member "It was stated that every state except Rhode Island has "adopted permissive state laws based on the National Fire Protection Association's NFPA 1122" ..... Is this still true? Does this mean people in Rhode Island can't fly rockets?" Rhode Island and California are the 2 states that have not adopted NFPA 1122 Code for Model Rocketry...they both have their own state laws concerning Model Rockets......But Model Rocketry is legal in both states..... In addition some states which have adopted NFPA 1122 have additional requirements for model rocketry use: New Jersey (effective July 9, 1992) To purchase 1/4A through C engines, you must be 14 years of age or older. To purchase D or larger engines, you must be 18 years of age or older. Children as young as 12 may participate in an educational model rocketry program with adult supervision. Rhode Island To purchase 1/4A through C engines, you must be 14 years of age or older and have a parents or guardians permission. To purchase D or larger engines, you must be 18 years of age or older. To use model rocket engines, you must obtain written or verbal permission from local fire authorities to use a specific launch site California (effective July 1992) To purchase 1/4A through D engines, you must be 14 years of age or older. To purchase E or larger engines, you must be 18 years of age or older. Children as young as 12 may participate in an educational model rocketry program with adult supervision. Launch sites must be approved by the local fire marshal. The California State Fire Marshals seal must be on all approved model rocket engines. Do not purchase engines without the seal. The states that Have adopted NFPA 1122 allow minors to purchase up to F engines.....except for the states listed above #### cls ##### Well-Known Member Handbook of Model Rocketry is indeed the classic. I will buy the 7th edition when it comes out because my (6th edition?) copy has coffee & glue all over it. I think Harry Stein's advice about not experimenting with motors is good advice for most people. his advice about why "high power" is very bad (actually mid-power F & higher) is spot on. despite his being right we still do high power and enjoy it!! The other must-have book for model rockets is "Model Rocket Design and Construction", by Tim Van Milligan. it is concise and well written and just full of great stuff. if you think you are out of ideas for your next scratch built, a quick flip through will cure you of that! and if you want to make your next helicopter or glider really work well check out those chapters. we need a book for MPR and HPR that is as well written and comprehensive as MRDC and HMR. "Modern High-Power Rocketry" isn't it. #### arthur dent ##### Well-Known Member I think 'HMR' is an absolute must for anyone starting out in the hobby of rocketry,it helped me understand the basics of getting my rockets in the air.Another good book i use is "model rocketry'space modelling'"by stuart lodge.This book is well set out and easy to understand #### saxophone ##### Well-Known Member It was stated that every state except Rhode Island has "adopted permissive state laws based on the National Fire Protection Association's NFPA 1122" ..... Is this still true? Does this mean people in Rhode Island can't fly rockets? Does it matter? I live in California. I end up driving 30 miles or more to launch rockets. If I lived in Rhode Island, that would put me out of the state. #### Stymye ##### Well-Known Member Mr Stine's NAR number was 002 if that tells you anything According to this months Sprocketry , NAR # 18 was Werner von braun. I didn't know that ! The rocket guru himself ! #### Adam Selene ##### Roving Rocketeer Originally posted by cls Handbook of Model Rocketry is indeed the classic. The other must-have book for model rockets is "Model Rocket Design and Construction", by Tim Van Milligan. it is concise and well written and just full of great stuff. if you think you are out of ideas for your next scratch built, a quick flip through will cure you of that! and if you want to make your next helicopter or glider really work well check out those chapters. i have to disagree about MRD&C. I just finished reading it this morning and while it does have some good information and useful tips it is mostly a comercial for roc sim that you have to pay$25 to read.

HGS's HbMR is an exellent resource.

#### Samuron

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by graylensman
Our library has a copy of the 4th edition, and it contains material later edited out - such as Mr. Stine's seven-motor cluster job...
This looks like the perfect thread for me to finally say "Howdy" to the forum.

I got the fourth edition for my 14th birthday; I can honestly say that I practically memorized it; but alas, rocketry faded away for me in the high school years.

About 10 years ago, we had a dinner party, and one of the guests mentioned that he was launching J motors. I began pontificating that he had no business doing any such thing; I explained that I had G. Harry Stine's book which said, and I quote "Anyone who tries to cluster Type F motors for fun is a fool."

He looked at me, smiled, and said, "Well, Harry says it's ok now. Why don't you come out this weekend and ask him?"

I did so, and Harry happily autographed my copy of the handbook with the dedication "Fly LOTS of clustered Fs!"

I never managed to take up the hobby at the time (no money), and rocketry faded away for me again, until the Discovery Channel series. I decided to look up the local group once again.

To my dismay, I learned that he had passed away; however, every October is the G. Harry Stine memorial launch.

I have 8 months to make an F cluster rocket.

#### jflis

##### Well-Known Member
Samuron
welcome to TRF and welcome back to rocketry

we missed ya!

#### KenParker

##### Well-Known Member
Welcome to TRF, Samuron. That's a neat story. Post a thread with lots of pics on the building of your clustered F rocket.

#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Samuron
however, every October is the G. Harry Stine memorial launch.

I have 8 months to make an F cluster rocket.
Welcome to the forum....... Very neat story...... Cluster of Fs?? Sounds like a good reason as any to fly more rockets..........

#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
I did some more reading tonight during my breaks at work..... I noticed that in chapter 12, recovery devices, there is a pictures of two kids and a rocket coming down on a parachute....... In the picture, it looks like the kids are about ready to caught the rocket!!!!!!

This doesn't seem like the thing you want to teach people just getting into this hobby.......

#### Steward

##### Well-Known Member

I totally blame my involvement in model rocketry on the 2nd edition of Stine's handbook. I was in the 7th or 8th grade and found it in the school library. I kept it checked out for almost the entire school year, and pretty much knew it by heart.
That would be about 40 years ago, and even though I never saw another copy of anywhere, I've used what I learned over the years. I've always said that I'm not a "BAR" because I never stopped building and flying rockets.
Those memories, and techniques finally came to head this past Christmas, when my wife suprised me with a new copy (6th edition). The memories came flooding back with a "vengence" and has prompted me to carry on my" tradition" with my 9yr old son. We've also become active in creating a club here in central Alabama, and as a chartered NAR club, look forward to going into the schools and "re-paying" the debts so to speak, by introducing students into the wonderful world of model rocketry...Blah, blah. blah, and that other stuff too...!!! Just re-tired and having fun... Steward

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Does anybody know the copyright date of the "first edition"?

I forgot.

sandman

#### astronboy

##### Well-Known Member
I stumbled across a 1st edition (1965) of the HMR a few weeks ago in a local used bookshopand snapped it up quickly. Boy, model rocketry sure has come a long way in 50 years!!

Chasing and catching rockets as they descend is dangerous?

I have never been hurt while flying model rockets. I have chased after, and caught them descending since I was about 7. I have been injured however playing football, soccer, baseball, skiing, ice skating, bicycling.... etc.

As for motors: I do believe that there is a big difference between assembled a motor (like RMS) and making your own motors. Making your own motors is still a big no-no in the arena of model rocketry as per the NAR code:

"Motors. I will use only certified, commercially-made model rocket motors, and will not tamper with these motors or use them for any purposes except those recommended by the manufacturer."

I realize that there are people who do build their own rocket motors these days, but this is amateur rocketry, not model rocketry.

I wish that I could have met Mr Stine. He was 'the man' who put it all together, and was really the main force behind the hobby of model rocketry.

Let's see some pictures of that clustered 'F' rocket!!!!!

#### rokitflite

##### Well-Known Member
WOW Steward!
I can relate! I repeatedly checked out MY local library's copy of the second edition when I was 14! I just recently obtained a copy of it from an Amazon auction site. I think the older pictures are more fun to look at. BTW Bill Stine is in the process of revising the Handbook so there will be a seventh edition soon enough. He said that the publishing company found alot of stuff that was politically incorrect in the original text and they are amazingly picky! For instance if Harry had written "only an idiot would do..." the publisher said that would have to be reworded! *sigh* the world we live in.

#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rokitflite
For instance if Harry had written "only an idiot would do..." the publisher said that would have to be reworded!

I read a part a few nights ago that sounded like that..... Pretty funny..... Harry didn't "beat around the bush".......

#### Joekeyo

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I'm not picking nits here, I am just trying to understand. I bought a copy of the 6th edition recently. Internet, used, cheap. This is first time reading it since my teenage years, (62 yo now). Here's the issue: On page 120 there is a variable labeled W1 - actually W sub 1, but I am not sure how to type that. Nowhere in the previous pages is W1 mentioned, at least that's how I see it. The best I can do is that it is a typo and should be Wb (W sub b). Any thoughts? This seem to work with the context.

I find these equations interesting. Math does not come easy for me.

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Not a scientist or mathematician either, but looks like he took the previous formula
It = m1v1
and since m = w/g (mass equals weight divided by the acceleration of gravity)

then It = (W1v1)/g

Since he defined m1 as the mass at burnout, I presume W1 to be the weight at burnout.
BTW I bought the 7th edition at the Estes website a few months ago.
A 15 yr old thread and still topical!
Cheers.

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#### Joekeyo

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Burn out weight of model (Wb) = Wo - Wp was defined on page 119.

I searched for a forum about the book and got this thread. Perhaps 15 years from now someone else will do the same. The principles don't change and it is a wonderful book. Highly recommended to any rocketeer who wants to learn more.