Goex shut down their facility.

[dustin.t]

Goex has announced that they will no longer be making black powder. What are we going to do.

 

[tsmith1315]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/goex-closing.168687/

 

[jderimig]

Goex has announced that they will no longer be making black powder. What are we going to do.

Train sets.

 

[rharshberger]

Read the other Goex thread, Goex is not the only brand of black powder in the world.

 

[SecondRow]

Goex has announced that they will no longer be making black powder. What are we going to do.

I’m going to fly rockets.

 

[Alan15578]

Goex has announced that they will no longer be making black powder. What are we going to do.

Recycle old decertified BP motors?

 

[dvdsnyd]

Recycle old decertified BP motors?

Not the same

 

[rcktnut]

Recycle old decertified BP motors?

Or good ones!!

Not the same

They work just fine, did it years ago, A good ground test is a good ground test no matter what you use.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Goex has announced that they will no longer be making black powder. What are we going to do.

Actually that’s not what they said. The parent company, Hodgdon, said it was shutting down the Goex plant at Camp Minden.
That leaves several alternatives as to what they might actually do.
They didn’t say they won’t be selling BP. That might be the case but maybe not. They could open another plant using safer production technologies, import powder from elsewhere and sell it as Goex, sell the plant to someone else, etc.
Wait and see.

 

[MikeT]

I'm going to Fly Rockets.

Mike

 

[Funkworks]

... What are we going to do.

I enjoy black powder but technically, Jolly Logic's chute release system seems to have advantages over DD. I'll probably get one eventually. In the long run, I suspect either JL will scale up production, and/or other manufacturers will make their own version and we'll have choices.

 

[cwbullet]

Actually that’s not what they said. The parent company, Hodgdon, said it was shutting down the Goex plant at Camp Minden.
That leaves several alternatives as to what they might actually do.
They didn’t say they won’t be selling BP. That might be the case but maybe not. They could open another plant using safer production technologies, import powder from elsewhere and sell it as Goex, sell the plant to someone else, etc.
Wait and see.

I heard the Chinese are good at making Black Powder.

 

[Peartree]

Actually that’s not what they said. The parent company, Hodgdon, said it was shutting down the Goex plant at Camp Minden.
That leaves several alternatives as to what they might actually do.
They didn’t say they won’t be selling BP. That might be the case but maybe not. They could open another plant using safer production technologies, import powder from elsewhere and sell it as Goex, sell the plant to someone else, etc.
Wait and see.

I thought that the point of this being newsworthy was that the Camp Minden facility was the last domestic U.S. production facility.

 

[Banzai88]

I thought that the point of this being newsworthy was that the Camp Minden facility was the last domestic U.S. production facility.

That doesn't preclude either a new facility that Hodgdon will transition to, or that the current facility can't/won't be sold to someone else and put back into service.

The Obama regime used environmental regulations to shut down the last domestic virgin lead smelter in the US....and the market adjusted in due course. Lead is just as plentiful now as ever, just at a higher market price.

 

[Peartree]

That doesn't preclude either a new facility that Hodgdon will transition to, or that the current facility can't/won't be sold to someone else and put back into service.

The Obama regime used environmental regulations to shut down the last domestic virgin lead smelter in the US....and the market adjusted in due course. Lead is just as plentiful now as ever, just at a higher market price.

I get that. I'm not worried about supply in the short-term. I just think that gunpowder (and most other things) is something for which we ought to have at least one domestic source.

 

[cwbullet]

I get that. I'm not worried about supply in the short-term. I just think that gunpowder (and most other things) is something for which we ought to have at least one domestic source.

I agree. I make my own, but I have conquered the sizing of of particles. I will get there,

 

[DeltaVee]

I enjoy black powder but technically, Jolly Logic's chute release system seems to have advantages over DD. I'll probably get one eventually. In the long run, I suspect either JL will scale up production, and/or other manufacturers will make their own version and we'll have choices.

I agree, but one thing I like about the DD concept (my first try at it will be sometime between now and November, and I have my one pound of goex aka "lifetime supply" from my pov waiting) is the "guarantee" of the apogee event. Having used the chute release, I will also say I like it alot.

 

[Scott_650]

I enjoy black powder but technically, Jolly Logic's chute release system seems to have advantages over DD. I'll probably get one eventually. In the long run, I suspect either JL will scale up production, and/or other manufacturers will make their own version and we'll have choices.

The JL Chute Release is a great product - I have one and use it at every launch…in the rockets where it fits. If your rocket is much under approximately 2” diameter getting the JLCR to work reliably is a struggle - under 1.64”/BT60 size and it’s not going to fit. (There were rumors of a smaller version from JL but the pandemic/chip shortage seems to have killed those…) Size is just one limitation, there are more - it only works, of course, after the recovery gear is out of the rocket so what do you do if there aren’t any commercial motors with the right delay? Or you’re flying EX motors with no delay train at all or EX motors where you build your own delay train/ejection charge? Consumer available BP is something most HPR/L2/L3 and EX folks need - yes you can fly rockets without it but not every kind of hobby rocket. Even the “pyro-free” CO2 recovery systems use a bit of some kind of pyro.

Hopefully you’re right and true pyro-free systems will emerge - a barometer and servo based system similar to the JLCR that opens the rocket would be a great option to conventional pyro-based DD systems…

 

[DeltaVee]

The JL Chute Release is a great product - I have one and use it at every launch…in the rockets where it fits. If your rocket is much under approximately 2” diameter getting the JLCR to work reliably is a struggle - under 1.64”/BT60 size and it’s not going to fit. (There were rumors of a smaller version from JL but the pandemic/chip shortage seems to have killed those…) Size is just one limitation, there are more - it only works, of course, after the recovery gear is out of the rocket so what do you do if there aren’t any commercial motors with the right delay? Or you’re flying EX motors with no delay train at all or EX motors where you build your own delay train/ejection charge? Consumer available BP is something most HPR/L2/L3 and EX folks need - yes you can fly rockets without it but not every kind of hobby rocket. Even the “pyro-free” CO2 recovery systems use a bit of some kind of pyro.

Hopefully you’re right and true pyro-free systems will emerge - a barometer and servo based system similar to the JLCR that opens the rocket would be a great option to conventional pyro-based DD systems…

I have to believe that providers of reload kits will undoubtedly find a supply of black powder or an alternative should scarcity become an issue. And I'd think that a practical non Pyro solution to deployment would have some significant advantages

 

[Scott_650]

I have to believe that providers of reload kits will undoubtedly find a supply of black powder or an alternative should scarcity become an issue. And I'd think that a practical non Pyro solution to deployment would have some significant advantages

When The Rocketry Show podcast interviewed Jolly Logic’s John Beans he talked about possible future products based on servo opened fairings for DD plus the potential for a smaller version of the JLCR but that was a couple years ago and I haven’t heard or read anything more about it - maybe a BP scarcity/price increase event will be the “spark” (so to say ) to get stuff like that out there. Personally I’d really like a non-pyro based DD system though I can’t say I’m enjoying the irony of doing my first DD specific build now that our local BP supply has apparently dried up - I meant to pick up some BP for months but we’ve been so busy buying/selling/moving that I kept putting it off

 

[DeltaVee]

When The Rocketry Show podcast interviewed Jolly Logic’s John Beans he talked about possible future products based on servo opened fairings for DD plus the potential for a smaller version of the JLCR but that was a couple years ago and I haven’t heard or read anything more about it - maybe a BP scarcity/price increase event will be the “spark” (so to say ) to get stuff like that out there. Personally I’d really like a non-pyro based DD system though I can’t say I’m enjoying the irony of doing my first DD specific build now that our local BP supply has apparently dried up - I meant to pick up some BP for months but we’ve been so busy buying/selling/moving that I kept putting it off

There is always hope! Frankly I love the idea of no residue buildup and no scorched shock cords/parachutes. Like you, my first DD project is underway and almost complete... thankfully a trip to The Kittery Trading Post during the summer months allowed for a pound of Goex with little fuss. I went the DD route because I can never seem to get delay drilling quite right... so I went this ridiculously more complex route!

 

[Steve Shannon]

I thought that the point of this being newsworthy was that the Camp Minden facility was the last domestic U.S. production facility.

It is, but thousands of tons of black powder are imported each year. Pure speculation on my part but Hodgdon might just want the issues with manufacturing to go away. Nothing in their press release said they weren’t going to have black powder. Instead they said they’re considering their options. Between fireworks and BP shooting there’s a huge market for it. Our ejection charges are just an extremely small portion of the market. As long as there’s a large market there will be suppliers. I predict we’ll someday see cans of 4f that say Made in China or Thailand or some other place where there are multiple manufacturers. In the meantime there are manufacturers in Europe.

 

[Steve Shannon]

I get that. I'm not worried about supply in the short-term. I just think that gunpowder (and most other things) is something for which we ought to have at least one domestic source.

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately manufacturing has largely moved overseas. Is there a steel mill or copper smelter in North America? Few materials are as strategic as those. I’ll stop right there before I devolve into politics.

P.S. There are still steel mills and 3 copper smelters in the USA. Their numbers have dwindled but they’re not zero. I had to go look.

 

[jderimig]

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately manufacturing has largely moved overseas. Is there a steel mill or copper smelter in North America? Few materials are as strategic as those. I’ll stop right there before I devolve into politics.

P.S. There are still steel mills and 3 copper smelters in the USA. Their numbers have dwindled but they’re not zero. I had to go look.

Yup! Cleveland Cliffs is expanding basic steel production in the US. Two modernized blast furnaces in Ohio.

 

[jderimig]

This is such a non-issue. PyrodexP or Triple seven works. Two cross wraps of vinyl electrical tape over your charge well is an order of magnitude easier than making BP or hoarding BP.

 

[Alan15578]

The Obama regime used environmental regulations to shut down the last domestic virgin lead smelter in the US....and the market adjusted in due course. Lead is just as plentiful now as ever, just at a higher market price.

Is there much demand for lead? Much lead was consumed in gasoline, but the leaded gasoline killed catalytic converters, so leaded gasoline had to go. Many lead mines then shut down. Silver was often a byproduct of lead mining, so the price of silver increased, and this hastened the decline of photographic film and processing. Most lead used in batteries is actually recycled. Assuming the Biden "regime" gets their reconciliation/infrastructures bill(s) passed, we will be digging up more lead pipes than we can use or stockpile. So it may take a bit more silver ($) to buy BP, but I think China will be happy to supply BP and take some of that surplus lead off of our hands.

 

[Buckeye]

This is such a non-issue. PyrodexP or Triple seven works. Two cross wraps of vinyl electrical tape over your charge well is an order of magnitude easier than making BP or hoarding BP.

This doesn't seem like "more containment" than most folks do with BP. I pack centrifuge vials with BP, dog barf, AND tape them closed.

 

[Buckeye]

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately manufacturing has largely moved overseas. Is there a steel mill or copper smelter in North America? Few materials are as strategic as those. I’ll stop right there before I devolve into politics.

And yet the USA never learns. Just in the past year, vulnerabilities were also exposed in PPE, medicine, rare earth metals, chips. etc.. A bad actor, say China, can move in to control these markets and then unleash chaos on the world. Oh, wait...

 

[jderimig]

This doesn't seem like "more containment" than most folks do with BP. I pack centrifuge vials with BP, dog barf, AND tape them closed.

I don't think centrifuge vials may be strong enough, so I have heard. Maybe need to wrap the vials with electrical tape also.

 

[dpower]

This is such a non-issue. PyrodexP or Triple seven works. Two cross wraps of vinyl electrical tape over your charge well is an order of magnitude easier than making BP or hoarding BP.

What kind of charge well? I use old 13mm motor casings, wire sealed with hot melt, top packed with wadding and taped shut.