FFFFG Gun powder

[highflyer1968]

Where can I find the black powder in Canada. Im in British Columbia and nobody has it except one store and its not ffffg.. Also is goex the one to get or triple 7?

 

[rharshberger]

Where can I find the black powder in Canada. Im in British Columbia and nobody has it except one store and its not ffffg.. Also is goex the one to get or triple 7?

Goex or Swiss (there are a few others as well) are two common brands of real Black Powder, Triple7 is a black powder substitute and is not the same nor will Triple7 work as reliably WITHOUT Consistency AND Practice. Traditional black powder is much easier to get consistent results with and is less finicky about containment.

 

[Titan II]

Goex fffg or another brand "black powder."

triple 7 is not black powder.

 

[pathtouch]

I have successfully used the Triple 7 substitute in copper plumbing charge wells with 8 layers of masking tape over them. Any free space is packed with dog barf. Ground testing is key to ensuring reliability.

 

[rharshberger]

I have successfully used the Triple 7 substitute in copper plumbing charge wells with 8 layers of masking tape over them. Any free space is packed with dog barf. Ground testing is key to ensuring reliability.

Yes...but...its much harder to get CONSISTENT results with Triple7 or other black powder substitutes.

 

[OverTheTop]

I have used fffg reliably for my entire HPR journey. No problem. Could not get ffffg here.

 

[TheTank]

Where can I find the black powder in Canada. Im in British Columbia and nobody has it except one store and its not ffffg.. Also is goex the one to get or triple 7?

Not sure which version is available to you but FFFG works just fine as well. Much easier than 777.

 

[Handeman]

I have found the 3Fg black powder works as well as 4Fg black powder with one small difference. It requires slightly more powder and the 3Fg causes small burn holes in the chute protectors that 4Fg doesn't. A little dog barf between the powder and the chute protectors seems to mitigate the issue.
Like always, ground testing is highly recommended.

 

[waltr]

3F could be ground into a finer power.
Just do it in small batches with Non-Sparking tools.

 

[Handeman]

3F could be ground into a finer power.
Just do it in small batches with Non-Sparking tools.

I agree it can be ground down, but when you grind 3Fg down, you no longer have the consistent 4Fg grain sizes. That is kind of what you need to get consistent results. 3Fg ground down to smaller grains than 4Fg may cause much different results than what 4Fg might give.

Unless you can get very consistent results in how small you grind down the 3Fg, I would recommend you use the 3Fg as is and mitigate the effects of the burning of the larger grain sizes with adjusting the powder volume and more protection of your chutes and recovery gear. Just my personal suggestion.

 

[SharkWhisperer]

3F could be ground into a finer power.
Just do it in small batches with Non-Sparking tools.

Exactly. Fast and simple. And reasonably safe to do in small quantities--eye protection is basic. That's how they get the grains from large pressed pucks in the first place. BP mm sizing/mesh size (US standards; varies from EU) charts available at: https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/fireworks-information/black-powder-grades-sizes-mesh

If you're extremely concerned about grain size, you can separate them into any Fg size range desired with a simple $6.99 6" screen available from fireworking vendors. For example, 4Fg is -40/+100 mesh, so anything that goes through a 40 hole/inch (40 mesh) screen and is captured on a 100 mesh screen is 4Fg. In practice, retaining the little bit of smaller particles (closer to Meal D sized) is probably not going to affect ejection much, but ground testing is always wise.

Cheapest, if available, are Reenactor size made by many well-known BP manufacturers. They're typically not as tightly sized but the exact same formulation, and can be ground down to any size desired, 4Fg included.

 

[Handeman]

Exactly. Fast and simple. And reasonably safe to do in small quantities--eye protection is basic. That's how they get the grains from large pressed pucks in the first place. BP mm sizing/mesh size (US standards; varies from EU) charts available at: https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/fireworks-information/black-powder-grades-sizes-mesh

If you're extremely concerned about grain size, you can separate them into any Fg size range desired with a simple $6.99 6" screen available from fireworking vendors. For example, 4Fg is -40/+100 mesh, so anything that goes through a 40 hole/inch (40 mesh) screen and is captured on a 100 mesh screen is 4Fg. In practice, retaining the little bit of smaller particles (closer to Meal D sized) is probably not going to affect ejection much, but ground testing is always wise.

Cheapest, if available, are Reenactor size made by many well-known BP manufacturers. They're typically not as tightly sized but the exact same formulation, and can be ground down to any size desired, 4Fg included.

I agree that it is a "simple" process, but I have to question why most rocketeers would bother with doing that.
If you have 3Fg, most of that will fall through a 40 screen. "Simply" grind the remaining to fit through that 40 screen. But how do you "simply" do that? How do you reduce the grain size without turning it into 300 mesh powder?
What do you do with what falls through the 100 mesh screen?
Most of us just want to buy what we need and not go through the processes of making our own BP.
The process might be "simple" but it is still a whole process working with an explosive and not something most of us want to deal with.

 

[TheTank]

I agree that it is a "simple" process, but I have to question why most rocketeers would bother with doing that.
If you have 3Fg, most of that will fall through a 40 screen. "Simply" grind the remaining to fit through that 40 screen. But how do you "simply" do that? How do you reduce the grain size without turning it into 300 mesh powder?
What do you do with what falls through the 100 mesh screen?
Most of us just want to buy what we need and not go through the processes of making our own BP.
The process might be "simple" but it is still a whole process working with an explosive and not something most of us want to deal with.

Exactly. And seeing that 3F works absolutely fine, why anyone would go to the effort and risk for next to no benefit, I dont understand.

 

[waltr]

Ok, if 3F works then no reason to grind it finer.

I think that if using a few grams of 3F this would work.
Does 3F still work if using less than a gram? My guess is if well contained then yes it will.

 

[TheTank]

Ok, if 3F works then no reason to grind it finer.

I think that if using a few grams of 3F this would work.
Does 3F still work if using less than a gram? My guess is if well contained then yes it will.

No issues at all. I ground test everything but whether in a charge well of centrifuge tube, I’ve never had an issue.

 

[prfesser]

One issue with 3F is that the larger particles will sometimes burn through wadding and then the chute. I have tiny holes in a chute protector and a chute from 3F. Doesn't affect usability significantly AFAIK.

 

[TheTank]

One issue with 3F is that the larger particles will sometimes burn through wadding and then the chute. I have tiny holes in a chute protector and a chute from 3F. Doesn't affect usability significantly AFAIK.

Ive honestly never had that issue using nomex.

 

[OverTheTop]

Does 3F still work if using less than a gram?

No problems here.