Aeronautical
Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2006
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
Hey all, I just found this site, and it's great. My name is James Mulroy and I live in Hortonville, Wisconsin. I first visited this site: Ye Olde Rocket Forum - click here. Then someone pointed to this site. I basically copied what I typed there, and posted here.
I have some questions.
First of all I have just started a club, not many members, just some relatives, neighbors and friends. We are mostly interested in completely designing and building the rocket, the motor and all. At first I was going to use a black powder and alcohol mixture, then I remember rocket candy, from the rocket boys book. We will be using potassium nitrate and sugar as our propellant. However after september 11th, the ATF added KNO3 to their list of low explosives, on the NAR site I found this so I can obtain a permit : https://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf
and instructions here: https://nar.org/cabinet/leuphints.html
Now I am only 16 years old, and that permit apparently is for people under 18 years of age. However I'm not sure about if I can store these explosives or not. If anyone knows, that'd be great. Also, is there is a permit we can get that would cover the untire rocket group?
I also need to know about storage devices, you need a type 4 magazine for low explosives, but they are expensive, can I build one? Also, how do I properly transport the explosives?
I have contacted numorous organizations, from the ATF, AMA, ATC, BATF, the FAA, and the local fire department. They have all been sending me in circles, they have had me contact one organization, and then that organization has me contact another becuase they don't know the answer, and then I end up where I started; no where. This is getting very confusing as to which permits I need to launch a high powered rocket that is larger then said on the FAR 101 document. Any help to lead me in the correct direction would be great. What organizations are for what, that sort of thing.
As to the rocket itself, I have a ton of information about how I will build it. My uncle just bought a metal lathe, and since the temperature of the fuel is going to be so high, we decided to contruct the engine out of aluminum, however, for the rest of the rocket, we will follow the NAR guide lines using only light light materials.
However, that seems kind of heavy and we may need a waiver for a rocket containing metal. Any suggestions for a better material that can support rocket candy? It has to be workable, like metal, a solid chunk of this material, so that we can spin it on the lathe.
For aluminum, I have been having problems, I need to know how strong it is, so I decide on a wall strength for the engine, a chart of some form perhaps would be helpful. I also need to know how heavy it is per centimeter, I also need to know the strength and weight of the pvc pipe I'll be using.
Also, I havn't found much on fin or wing design, as of formulas. And on the side of a rocket, if it is straight, there is some air resistence, but very little, does anyone know how to calculate, that amount. And what if the rocket sides slope back at an angle behind the nose cone. Then how do you calculate for it?
I decided I'm going to build a rocket with an Tangent Ogive nose cone.
What I'm really confused on is the engine, not so much the nozzle, but the fuel. Let's say I design the whole rocket and it weighs 2.5 kilograms, how much fuel will it take to lift it 400 meters? Well, I can find the force necessary, but then I add fuel to the equation, the rocket becomes heavier, requiring more fuel, making it heavier and so on. I'd also add more aluminum to hold the fuel, and it just keeps going. I need some equilibrium. I thought about caculus, but I don't know a formula for this, any idea?
Also, what about alcohol and other liquid fuels, how does that change the rocket. The AFP sent me an application for distilling alcohol via email, I have not downloaded it yet, but I will. When I get the permit, I'd like to make some rockets that use pure ethanol. Obviously the storage compartment for the alcohol changes, but what about the rest of the rocket, does the nozzle change too?
I have been researching these things for a long time. At the beginning of this last school year, I got really interested in rocketry. I took physics this year and I am taking AP next year, however, the teacher doesn't always have an answer.
I am also a senior now, seeing as school just ended.
If you are interested, I will keep you all updated on our little club, the rockets. I'll post some pictures.
Also, my email is as follows; [email protected]
If anyone ever needs to or would like to contact me then pleace email me.
Thank you for taking your time to read over this.
I have some questions.
First of all I have just started a club, not many members, just some relatives, neighbors and friends. We are mostly interested in completely designing and building the rocket, the motor and all. At first I was going to use a black powder and alcohol mixture, then I remember rocket candy, from the rocket boys book. We will be using potassium nitrate and sugar as our propellant. However after september 11th, the ATF added KNO3 to their list of low explosives, on the NAR site I found this so I can obtain a permit : https://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf
and instructions here: https://nar.org/cabinet/leuphints.html
Now I am only 16 years old, and that permit apparently is for people under 18 years of age. However I'm not sure about if I can store these explosives or not. If anyone knows, that'd be great. Also, is there is a permit we can get that would cover the untire rocket group?
I also need to know about storage devices, you need a type 4 magazine for low explosives, but they are expensive, can I build one? Also, how do I properly transport the explosives?
I have contacted numorous organizations, from the ATF, AMA, ATC, BATF, the FAA, and the local fire department. They have all been sending me in circles, they have had me contact one organization, and then that organization has me contact another becuase they don't know the answer, and then I end up where I started; no where. This is getting very confusing as to which permits I need to launch a high powered rocket that is larger then said on the FAR 101 document. Any help to lead me in the correct direction would be great. What organizations are for what, that sort of thing.
As to the rocket itself, I have a ton of information about how I will build it. My uncle just bought a metal lathe, and since the temperature of the fuel is going to be so high, we decided to contruct the engine out of aluminum, however, for the rest of the rocket, we will follow the NAR guide lines using only light light materials.
However, that seems kind of heavy and we may need a waiver for a rocket containing metal. Any suggestions for a better material that can support rocket candy? It has to be workable, like metal, a solid chunk of this material, so that we can spin it on the lathe.
For aluminum, I have been having problems, I need to know how strong it is, so I decide on a wall strength for the engine, a chart of some form perhaps would be helpful. I also need to know how heavy it is per centimeter, I also need to know the strength and weight of the pvc pipe I'll be using.
Also, I havn't found much on fin or wing design, as of formulas. And on the side of a rocket, if it is straight, there is some air resistence, but very little, does anyone know how to calculate, that amount. And what if the rocket sides slope back at an angle behind the nose cone. Then how do you calculate for it?
I decided I'm going to build a rocket with an Tangent Ogive nose cone.
What I'm really confused on is the engine, not so much the nozzle, but the fuel. Let's say I design the whole rocket and it weighs 2.5 kilograms, how much fuel will it take to lift it 400 meters? Well, I can find the force necessary, but then I add fuel to the equation, the rocket becomes heavier, requiring more fuel, making it heavier and so on. I'd also add more aluminum to hold the fuel, and it just keeps going. I need some equilibrium. I thought about caculus, but I don't know a formula for this, any idea?
Also, what about alcohol and other liquid fuels, how does that change the rocket. The AFP sent me an application for distilling alcohol via email, I have not downloaded it yet, but I will. When I get the permit, I'd like to make some rockets that use pure ethanol. Obviously the storage compartment for the alcohol changes, but what about the rest of the rocket, does the nozzle change too?
I have been researching these things for a long time. At the beginning of this last school year, I got really interested in rocketry. I took physics this year and I am taking AP next year, however, the teacher doesn't always have an answer.
I am also a senior now, seeing as school just ended.
If you are interested, I will keep you all updated on our little club, the rockets. I'll post some pictures.
Also, my email is as follows; [email protected]
If anyone ever needs to or would like to contact me then pleace email me.
Thank you for taking your time to read over this.
