astronwolf
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That's not an Estes Nike Smoke.
Estes Nike Smoke
- Thread starter billeblurzz
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That's not an Estes Nike Smoke.
Charles_McG
Ciderwright
The Nike part is.
astronwolf
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Good Job! Always nice to go bush whacking for rockets and actually recover them.It’s a good feeling!
astronwolf
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What motor did you use?
waltr
Well-Known Member
That rod looks a bit too short and maybe under sized (not stiff enough) for that rocket.
Yes, what motor and total weight?
Yes, what motor and total weight?
It was an Aerotech F26-6FJ 29mm.
I thought at the time it was underpowered and,so, took off towards the horse farm next door(!!).
But I got a straight and true flight with an F26 later that day, so I think the F26 was ok for the Nike Smoke. Also it wasn't windy, so I don't think that was a factor.
My working hypothesis is, being rather new to these composite engines, I'm not sure I got the igniter in all the way as you're supposed to. If you do that, so I understand, you get a "slow" ignition with a longer thrust build up. That would explain its cross country trajectory.
At any rate, I will be using an F27-4R and, later, an F 32-6T to see if they give a better performance. Should, I guess.
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The launch pad was that standarrd issue Estes Pro Series Pad with a 1/4'' rod, 60'' long.
So, I think it was ok for this Pro Series launch. At least, according to Estes.
It's not much of a pad, I concede, though.
About twenty years ago I found some guy from Huntsville, I think, who was selling a home built pad made of PVC pipes and using a drill chuck into which you inserted the launch rod and tightened up. On Ebay, as I recall. Of course, it took various sized rods. It was rugged and great to use for any size launch.
I recently wore that pad out and, sadly, his e-mail address is no longer good so I couldn't hit him up for a replacement.
This current pad I would love to replace.
Any suggestions?
user 35280
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Maybe convert it to rail buttons and use a rail launch pad. Make a rail pad using a JawStand or there are a couple of places that make pads like,
frankumperformance.com
knight-mfg.com
Ouch---Those prices!
Charles_McG
Ciderwright
My Nike Smoke (flown in the Smoke configuration) weathercocked pretty badly on a G33. I’ve always flown with more thrust than that since.
icyclops
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Wow, that smoke turned very quick into cruise missile formate…..really surprising.
Easy to just build one.
I had added rail buttons to mine and wanted to add a note that you'll need a standoff since the nose cone is wider than the body tube. As I recall, I simply used a longer screw and a thick plastic collar standoff.
I think that was an issue with motor selection. Using mine as an example. Mine weights 27.8oz. and when sim'ed off a 65in rod (usable length of my 72in rod) it is only showing 23.4mph of the rod which is far below what I consider minimum.
I consider the F44 the smallest motor for that rocket. Makes for a nice 350-375ft flight. The F67 is what I fly most as it gives me around 650ft. Both SIM in the 34-35mph off the rod.
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Well damn—I’m invested in four F27-4 engines for my Nike Smoke
I was hoping to balance a relatively slow takeoff with a vertical (not cross country) flight since I’m using this as the launch vehicle for my Estes Astrocam
So here’s hoping they’re up to the task.
I was hoping to balance a relatively slow takeoff with a vertical (not cross country) flight since I’m using this as the launch vehicle for my Estes Astrocam
So here’s hoping they’re up to the task.
The F27 SIM's at 24.2mph off a 66in rod. I personally wouldn't risk that flight.
But then again, I don't know the weight of your rocket.
I wouldn't fly mine on an F27. It weighs 23oz with no motor. The 24/60 motors all sim fine, and I agree that the F67W is a great choice. F52C works in my rocket as well.
My Estes Pro II Nike Smoke would often take off with erratic turns like this when leaving the pad, though not to the degree of the rocket in the video. Maybe 30 or 40 degree turns at worst. Most of those flights were on G74-6 motors, so there was plenty of speed off the 6 foot rod.
After many successful flights with G74's, my first flight with an F67 went fully unstable off the rod, skywriting 30 or 40 feet above the pad. It belly-flopped onto the ground 75 feet from the pad, smoked for a few seconds, then executed a perfect parachute deployment. Pretty comical really, and the rocket was undamaged except for one fin which had broken loose. Still, it was not exactly the flight I was hoping for.
After that aerobatic performance, I added an ounce or two of lead shot to the nose & dribbled some epoxy over it to hold it in place. That rocket has flown much straighter with no wagging or sharp turns since its CG modification. I've concluded that the Nike Smoke nosecone that I love so much might be shifting the CP forward a little more than calculations indicate.
After many successful flights with G74's, my first flight with an F67 went fully unstable off the rod, skywriting 30 or 40 feet above the pad. It belly-flopped onto the ground 75 feet from the pad, smoked for a few seconds, then executed a perfect parachute deployment. Pretty comical really, and the rocket was undamaged except for one fin which had broken loose. Still, it was not exactly the flight I was hoping for.
After that aerobatic performance, I added an ounce or two of lead shot to the nose & dribbled some epoxy over it to hold it in place. That rocket has flown much straighter with no wagging or sharp turns since its CG modification. I've concluded that the Nike Smoke nosecone that I love so much might be shifting the CP forward a little more than calculations indicate.
I hope to avoud that show next time.
But I do love the Nike Smoke and wish Estes offered more Pro Series II class kits like it.
I think they're missing a market niche. Not everybody wants a Ready To Fly.
They won't offer anything that can't fly on their black powder motors, because motors are how they make money.
I admit I am relatively new to flying composite motors.
But, even with my limited experience, I have no preference over an Estes F16-6 to a composite F32-4 or something like that.
Well, maybe the higher price of those composites gives me pause...
But, it would be great to get some Pro Series II designs that could accept both old school black powder engines as well as composites.
Is that too much to ask to get more Nike Smoke-type Pro Series kits out there?
The F15 won't have enough initial thrust to get your Nike Smoke off the rail at an acceptable speed. The limited initial thrust of the F15 and E16 is what limits the weight of any rockets Estes might want to design and sell. That design space is also limited by the pro series launch pad and 1/4" rod (vs a 1010 rail).
Estes is working on a core burning E motor that may expand their design space, so we can hope for the future.
Well, I should have made clear the F15 is for my Super Big Bertha and Doorknob. Nike Smoke is composites all the way, no doubt.
Will look forwatd to the core burning E motor.
What was the original B sized core burner called back in the '60s? The B 25 or something like that? High thust, fast burner? I guess that's the same thing in progress here??
B14 I think.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
The current Majestic, Star Orbiter, Super Big Bertha, Doorknob and future mid-year release So Long all have adapted Estes 24mm motors on the “recommended motor list”.
If it’s built with the original equipment paper rings and balsa fins and kept light the DBRM can fly on an adapted E12 in calm conditions - your club’s RSO may not allow it though, depending on your club’s rules and the RSO’s tolerance level
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I was foolishly experimenting with the 4 foot 1/4" rod on my tripod. Works great with the 2" rockets but the 3" are too heavy and need a longer 6ft rod which I have but don't want to bring everything with me to the launch area. I have a 6ft SS rod and a 6ft rail I bought from Grainger (free shipping if you pick up from the local store). I created a simple wood base for the 6ft rod and using a bicycle stand for the rail ($65).
Recently, I tried my Doorknob clone which was too heavy for the tripod and angled over. Looked fine in the sim. Landed in the street so no damage. I installed rail buttons and will try again with the rail. My Aloun Fad landed in a large tree and is still waiting for rescue.
Recently, I tried my Doorknob clone which was too heavy for the tripod and angled over. Looked fine in the sim. Landed in the street so no damage. I installed rail buttons and will try again with the rail. My Aloun Fad landed in a large tree and is still waiting for rescue.
Once you go rail, you'll never go back.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
Using a rail can really spoil you!
