Estes Citation Patriot

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Bruiser, Jul 31, 2019.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 13, 2019 #31

    K'Tesh

    K'Tesh

    K'Tesh

    OpenRocket Chuck Norris

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    12,195
    Likes Received:
    314
    Would you believe... The .ork file is too large for the forum... I'm gonna have to rethink things on how to get it uploaded.

    Some points to make about the ork (when I do get it uploaded). The eagles on the booster's black fin are the same scale as the ones on the body tube, trimmed with a ~1mm gold border. If a second kit's decals were sacrificed to make the fin decals, one eagle will be facing the body tube, and the other won't. If I were getting custom decals made, I would insist on getting one mirrored so they both face out from the body tube. Also, if the original kit is one of the older reissue kits, the Estes Logo will be on over the final "T" on both sides of the fin. Later reissued kits will have the logo over the "P" on one fin, and "T" on the other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  2. Aug 13, 2019 #32

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    When in doubt, add more rocket TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    5,797
    Likes Received:
    698
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    To do a cluster in OR: for the motor mount, there's a cluster tab:
    upload_2019-8-12_21-52-23.png

    The decal files shouldn't be that huge I would think. What DPI are you using? What image format?
     
  3. Aug 13, 2019 #33

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    76
    K'Tesh,

    I did use your OR file from the plans forum as a basis for what I was planning. You have a lot of "advance stuff" in there that I have no idea of how you did them. I can believe the file is pretty big :)

    Neil,

    I did find the cluster tab and I choose it but nothing seemed to happen. I'll have to try it again and give a proper debrief. My memory just isn't to good.

    I have the fin plates attached and am waiting for the glue to dry some before I spray the first coat of filler/primer on.

    -Bob
     
  4. Aug 13, 2019 #34

    K'Tesh

    K'Tesh

    K'Tesh

    OpenRocket Chuck Norris

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    12,195
    Likes Received:
    314
    Hi Neil,

    To answer your question... "Metalic" decals make the .png files pretty large. It didn't help that they were 300 DPI, I'm trying to cut them down to 150 DPI to see if that fixes things.

    Bob... Thanks. The booster section for my two stage payload version was based on the Semroc Omega (KV-64) kit. In fact, if it wasn't for the limitations of OR to do the custom Semroc CRs (vented), it'd be identical, save for the fins.
     
  5. Aug 13, 2019 #35

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    When in doubt, add more rocket TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    5,797
    Likes Received:
    698
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    Ah yes, 300 DPI metallic files will do it. I normally do my OR decals at 100 DPI, then redo them at 300 DPI for printing. Dropping to 150 DPI will help a lot as far as your file size goes.
     
  6. Aug 13, 2019 #36

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    I just finished a Patriot build (1 of 3 that I am building, an XL with 2nd body tube, E-Powered, and Stock). The decals are very tacky...don't slide around much. I realized that on the first decal. I then wiped the surface down with a wet paper towel several times before apply the remaining decals. That helped small positioning alignment, but still, they grab sooner than expected. I might have to resort to a drop of dish soap in the pre-wet wipe.
     
  7. Aug 14, 2019 at 2:08 AM #37

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    76
    I had no idea that decals would stretch and if stretched to far, rip.

    I did not have a dish to soak the decal in so I wet the back down with a spray bottle. I am pretty sure most of my issues came with not having the decal wet enough.

    The build of the booster is coming along. The fin plates are on and I sprayed a coat of filler/primer on. I sanded off the fuzzies and wanted to spray another coat of primer on but I was out. I ran into WalMart on my lunch break and bought a can of primer. It wasn't until I went to use it that I realized I had bought primer/sealer. Having no experience with it, I plan on exchanging it for the right primer. I had a can of white primer so I sprayed it with that. I also managed to get the rivets on.

    On a side note, I looked for Krylon Crystal Clear gloss but I did not see any. All I saw in stock was matte so I will have to go somewhere else for that. I realized today that I need to do something to protect those decals from the desert sand.

    -Bob
     
  8. Aug 14, 2019 at 2:30 AM #38

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    76
    So this time when I changed the inner tube to a cluster it worked great. Here are the OR sim results for sustainer only.

    D12-5 897 feet
    3-C6-5 1147 feet
    E12-6 1309

    -Bob
     
  9. Aug 14, 2019 at 3:23 AM #39

    K'Tesh

    K'Tesh

    K'Tesh

    OpenRocket Chuck Norris

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    12,195
    Likes Received:
    314
    I haven't applied waterslide decals for years, but one thing that I've heard/seen are the horror stories of rockets "Ready to Go!" that are getting the clear coat and then get a horrible case of rocket herpes. For that reason, my plan is to use whatever the hell Future floor polish is calling itself these days.
     
    Mugs914 likes this.
  10. Aug 14, 2019 at 4:53 PM #40

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    76
    The booster is in gloss white now :) Time to wait...

    Booster White.jpg

    I've used the Krylon clears for years on R/C aircraft. The trick there was a dust coat followed by light coats. I used the satin over the Duplicolor Color Match paints I used on my first BAR rocket (the IQSY Tomahawk) and had no issues. I have not tried any over Rustoleum 2X or Estes decals yet.

    I did look into the Rustoleum clears but could not find anyone that actually used them on a rocket. There were a few threads were people planned to use them and then changed their minds.

    I have seen several threads about Future wax being used. Never tried that either and have not studied up on the process.

    I'm gonna have to think on this a little more...

    Something else I need to think on is what do I build next :)

    -Bob
     
  11. Aug 14, 2019 at 4:57 PM #41

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    When in doubt, add more rocket TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    5,797
    Likes Received:
    698
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    Remember also that you do not *need* a clear coat.

    From personal experience, Krylon UV resistant clear absolutely works fine over 2x. Future works fine over most anything (preferable non porous)
     
  12. Aug 14, 2019 at 4:59 PM #42

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm using Rustoleum clear.....I like it. Just MAKE SURE it either goes on while the color coat is still tacky, or SEVERAL days later (more if the color coat is thick). Otherwise, you will get a wrinkle finish. The can says clear coat within 1 hour, or after 48. I say, clear coat in 30 min, or after 1 week.
     
    neil_w likes this.
  13. Aug 14, 2019 at 5:00 PM #43

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    The Rustoleum Clear worked well to seal up the Estes decals also.
     
  14. Aug 14, 2019 at 5:10 PM #44

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    76
    Hey Neil,
    The decals seem delicate, that's why I was thinking a clear coat is needed. It's desert here and almost always breezy on launch day :) so the rocket get dragged across sand paper until you catch up to it. It's hard to refrain from running out there to catch it but that seems to be frowned upon here. Besides I wouldn't want anybody shooting a video of me running and having it show up as a "funny video" on YouTube :)

    Red7Fifty,
    Thanks for that info. From your report it sounds very similar to the other 2X products concerning dry times, recoat times, etc. Also good to know there's no reaction with the decals.

    -Bob
     
  15. Aug 14, 2019 at 5:27 PM #45

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Also, helps keep them from peeling off in flight if the decal glue gets week.
    As far as running video on youtube....if it's funny enough, and gets a million views, you could make a few bucks.....that could go towards a new rocket. The other night, I was gluing the motor block into another Patriot build...the spacer block went in 1/4" further than planned (next time, I will wrap a tape ring around the spacer block so it doesn't push in too far). As wanting the build to come out "Text Book", and knowing the block, engine hook, spacing is F'ed up....I had to immediately place another order (thanks AC Supply) before going to bed. And, to get the free shipping, add another Saturn V......and..........
    I'll post an old video......and drop the link here. No need to start a whole another blog......if you don't mind. I also have a few build tips.....can I share those also?
     
  16. Aug 14, 2019 at 5:40 PM #46

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    For S and Giggles.
     
  17. Aug 14, 2019 at 6:03 PM #47

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Red7Fifty

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    In the past, I've tried thinned wood filler, Bondo glazing putty, and lightweight filler to fill tube spirals....all have been a PITA to sand off the excess and make smooth (except the lightweight doesn't stick to narrow groves). Recently, I thought to try something else. Cutting strips of paper, and cutting my 1" making tape in half, I masked off the body tube, leaving only the spiral exposed. Two coats of Rustoleum 2X primer, and remove the mask, let dry (it shrinks a little) then sand smooth. Much quicker process, less tedious, and a better finish. Make a styrofoam sanding block with medium/fine paper. Making Rocket Building Fun Again! :) 1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG
     
    T-Rex likes this.
  18. Aug 14, 2019 at 10:45 PM #48

    GlenP

    GlenP

    GlenP

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    138
    I have thought about just spraying some primer/paint into a cup and using a fine brush along the tube spiral. Haven’t tried it yet.
     
  19. Aug 15, 2019 at 2:05 AM #49

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    76
    Hmmn, that is interesting. I use thinned cwf and it doesn't take me too long to sand it off. Of course I have fuzzies on the tube with the first coat of primer but they sand right off too.

    So if the primer is thick enough to fill the spirals then there must be a lip when you pull off the tape that needs to be sanded so it seems I'm either sanding primer or cwf…

    -Bob
     

Share This Page