engines

[loopy]

Originally posted by spaceshuttle
or better yet...

EXPECTED SHUTTLE STATUS
Total launch mass = 250.0 g (.5 lbs. 0.88 oz.)
Diameter = 152.4 millimeters (6 inches)
2 engines of type Estes C6-3
Flight duration=10.8 seconds.
Max altitude = 50.36 meters (165.2 ft) at 3.2 seconds.
Turn over at 3.2 seconds
Chute deployment at 2.24 m/S, shock = 1.09 g.
Impact downrange 3.4 meters at 7.1 m/s.
Peak speed = 30.92 meters per second (69.2 MPH).
Maximum acceleration = 9.86 g.
Launch angle = 2.00 degrees from vertical.
Ejection=3 seconds after launch.
Parachute diameter = 304 millimeters (12 inches).

i'm going back to my original 20"x 6" design.

C6-3 engines burn for 1.5 seconds, plus the three second delay, so ejection in this scenario will be 4.5 seconds after launch, not the listed 3. The delay times are from motor burnout, not ignition.

 

[spaceshuttle]

Originally posted by Loopy
C6-3 engines burn for 1.5 seconds, plus the three second delay, so ejection in this scenario will be 4.5 seconds after launch, not the listed 3. The delay times are from motor burnout, not ignition.

i know. i calculated everything on an online altitude predictor. i must have missed what you pointed out. the stack should still have enough "parachute time", though.

 

[spaceshuttle]

can the Aerotech Interlock launch controller safely ignite two E15-4Ws in a cluster?

 

[richalex2010]

Do you already have it?

If not, I suggest making your own controller, it's a whole lot cheaper (more money to spend on motors ). I did, and it came out to about $20-30 (most of that was the 50' of wire that I had to get--the rest was all bought from Radio Shack for around $10). I've fired both an Estes ignitor and a Crapperhead successfully with it (not had a chance to launch with it yet, though )

But, I think that it should work fine. Just use Quickbursts (or equivalent), and test the continuity of each ignitor before launching.

 

[ben]

true. Can't wait for launch Jake bring it next time and we can hook up your controlley at the club for my f40 and hopefully G64 and maybe Bruce might fly the I200

thanx, Ben

 

[richalex2010]

Yeah, it's a lot nicer to the LCO, not having to stand 15' away from H motors launching... I've actually brought it to every/most launches that I've been to since we (my dad and I) made it.

 

[spaceshuttle]

i'm confused...
it says "Now you need to hook up the trigger. Attach the launch control leads up to the two leads labeled “Trigger”. This is the same procedure you would use to hook the launch control leads up to your igniter. The only difference is you will be clipping the launch control leads up to the Cluster Busters “Trigger” leads instead. Ask the LCO to push his launch button. If you hear a clicking noise coming from The Cluster Buster, everything is in good shape."




i understand that the large clips go to the 12v battery and the long clips go to the ignitors, but am i hooking a different launch controller to the short clips (the ones labeled "trigger")?

 

[Chrisn]

LOL
firstly nice idea about the carbon dioxide thing on the space shuttle to a gas(smoke) effect and secondly it is better to host the image at www.imageshack.us and give us a link to it than put one massive one up there like that (what if we all had dial up ) i used to do that but some people get really cranky.

 

[spaceshuttle]

you know what? something doesn't look right...
this can't be true!

EXPECTED SHUTTLE STATUS
Total launch mass = .5 lbs
Diameter = 9.25 in., Initial Cd = 0.750
Stage 1 has 2 engines of type Estes E9 for an impulse of 55.73 Newton-Seconds

Stage 1 ejects after 0.1 (actually 0 sec.) seconds and stage 2 starts

Stage 2 has 1 engine of type Estes D12 for an impulse of 15.79 Newton-Seconds

Total Impulse = 71.52 Newton-seconds

Ejection 3 seconds after launch.
Parachute diameter = 18 in.
Launch angle = 2.00 degrees from vertical.
Flight duration 13.8 seconds.
Max altitude = 34.02 meters (111.6 ft) at 2.5 seconds.
Peak speed = 23.67 meters per second (52.9 MPH).
Maximum acceleration = 16.71 g.
Turn over at 2.5 seconds
Chute deployment at 4.41 m/S, shock = 1.18 g.
Impact downrange 1.6 meters at 3.0 m/s.

that speed is also probably a bit slow...

something doesn't seem right. please tell me if this is, in fact, true...

 

[Nate]

Be a man.

G80's in the SRB's.

 

[spaceshuttle]

^i could ALWAYS do that! the only problem is...weighing the (tank) enough so that it'll move slow enough (slow enough to keep good stability ), go the right altitude and that i won't lose the orbiter.

but then again, a friend of mine suggested using fishing line as a tether so that i can fly the orbiter as a kite after separation...then i may definately use Fs or Gs. (food for thought?!)


that should work fine right?

 

[Nate]

Originally posted by spaceshuttle
slow enough to keep good stability

Won't lie to you....that's the opposite of what you want. Granted, going to fast will tear it apart because of the massive amount of drag created by the orbiter...however, there is also such a thing as "aerodynamic stability" and that's even more important...if not one of the most important aspects of a successful rocket flight.

if your rocket's going too slow for the fins to stabilize it, the slightest gust of wind will turn it on it's side and make it into a land shark!

No fishing line....that's a bad idea. To be honest, with a rocket this size, you could put it a good 1000 feet into the air and still easily be able to see it. your chances of losing it due to a shred is infintley more likely than losing it due to altitude. And anyway, a good walk never hurt anyone

 

[cjl]

Absolutely - walking is good for you, as well as necessary on many higher-powered flights (as me and Jason learned with that H268 the other day ). It shouldn't be hard to see at all.

And BTW: you want AT LEAST 30mph by the end of the launch rod, and by that data you showed, it may not make that.

 

[spaceshuttle]

Originally posted by Nate
No fishing line....that's a bad idea. To be honest, with a rocket this size, you could put it a good 1000 feet into the air and still easily be able to see it. your chances of losing it due to a shred is infintley more likely than losing it due to altitude. And anyway, a good walk never hurt anyone

well, my main concern wasn't the stack/visibility, but that **** orbiter glider, lol.
i don't think that there's a way to calculate how far downward it will tumble after apogee separation. i have a launch site in mind, a brickyard; it is about a mile from my house. the sales clerk at the hobby shop told me about it and i also looked at it on Google Earth, but i haven't made my way there to actually see it. i don't know for sure how big the brickyard is, but i don't want the orbiter to land in the trees or in the street...that's where the fishing line idea came from...

 

[Nate]

I really think you'll be fine....but seriously, no fishing line....it's a neat idea, but I just can't see it working.

As for the rest of these, you seem to actually be on a pretty steady track here....I look forward to seeing your progress.

 

[spaceshuttle]

ok. would anyone consider small, short burning (homemade) smoke bombs in the Main Engines a fair approach for special effects?

 

[cjl]

Well, why would those be the effects you wanted?

The main engines don't make any smoke.

What I would reccomend is single stage, 2 AT E15's (or similar) in the SRB's for realism, but if one doesn't light, you're screwed.

If you want it to work well, use one, larger (such as an F40) engine centrally, and forget outboards. That would give it the best chance of having a successful flight.

 

[spaceshuttle]

you know what? i will be getting a job in about three weeks, therefore, i get a bit more sensible and patient with this d*** thing. now... i am considering (but haven't but in a perdiction yet for) using either f25-4Ws or e15-4Ws in the boosters and an Estes C in the tank. how can i determine which one if these timers to use for the airstart of the tank?
https://68.178.208.82/cgi/PF_Store/...spage&thispage=timers.html&ORDER_ID=165125673

 

[spaceshuttle]

update: e15-4Ws in the boosters, d12-0s (with a Adept Rocketry stager) in the tank w/ clear fins. look for pix of the temporary shuttle on it's new launch pad in the near future (also, see signature).

anyway, how do i know how big the fins should be?

 

[Nate]

Originally posted by spaceshuttle
update: e15-4Ws in the boosters, d12-0s (with a Adept Rocketry stager) in the tank w/ clear fins. look for pix of the temporary shuttle on it's new launch pad in the near future (also, see signature).

well done! sounds like you're progressing well. I'll be very impressed when this gets off the ground.

Originally posted by spaceshuttle
anyway, how do i know how big the fins should be?

ooohh....that's a toughie on something as oddly shaped as the spaceshuttle. you want your center of pressure to be at least one caliber behind your center of gravity (the balance point of the rocket.) having larger fins will move the CP backwards which is what you want....but good luck calculating the CP on a rocket shaped like that....

 

[spaceshuttle]

double checking, is it a good/safe idea to put a d12-0 (or any other necessary motor with a delay of "0") in the second stage (external tank) of the shuttle?

 

[agrippo]

Spaceshuttle,

If you've got that rocket ready to fly then there will be a model rocket launch at the Tinsletown field in Baton Rouge on Saturday July 29th. You should come by and let us take at look at what you've done and we can probably make a much better recommendation on your motors and delays in person then over the internet.

I've got a pretty good assortment of reloads, delays and 24mm casings I can bring and I'll be more then happy to see what that baby will do. Some of the other flyers have casings too so we should be able to put something together for you.

Good Luck and I hope to see ya there,

Andrew

 

[spaceshuttle]

well, right now i don't have a "FINAL" shuttle. what i mean is, the pieces that are suitable for flight aren't complete and soon i'll have a job so that i can save up and start buying launch equipment. as soon as everything becomes 'presentable', lol, i'll pass by there and show y'all the model. i GREATLY appreciate the help!

 

[spaceshuttle]

question: is it a good idea to cluster rapier motors?

 

[spaceshuttle]

Originally posted by spaceshuttle
question: is it a good idea to cluster rapier motors?

question answered...

can anyone answer THESE questions?



can a launch controller ignite a visco fuse?

and

is it even safe to ignite a rocket motor with visco fuse?

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by spaceshuttle

can a launch controller ignite a visco fuse?

In conjunction with an igniter, yes.

is it even safe to ignite a rocket motor with visco fuse?

Personally, I would say it depends on the length. Consider, for example, the situation where you press the button, a long length of visco ignites then an aircraft flies over your launch site. What do you do?

Ultimately it may depend upon your insurance arrangements, and what teh associated safety code says.

 

[ben]

Originally posted by hokkyokusei
In conjunction with an igniter, yes.

Personally, I would say it depends on the length. Consider, for example, the situation where you press the button, a long length of visco ignites then an aircraft flies over your launch site. What do you do?

Ultimately it may depend upon your insurance arrangements, and what teh associated safety code says.

same thing can happen with a normal ignitor. An F20 chuffs as an aircraft flies over head! And if you use 1' or less your burn time will be under 1-2seconds.

thanx, Ben

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by ben
same thing can happen with a normal ignitor. An F20 chuffs as an aircraft flies over head! And if you use 1' or less your burn time will be under 1-2seconds.

thanx, Ben

Might do, but it's certainly not planned. Long length of visco will do that for sure, and then the motor might chuff.

 

[ben]

Originally posted by hokkyokusei
Might do, but it's certainly not planned. Long length of visco will do that for sure, and then the motor might chuff.

true, for me a LONG length of visco is 3' and that is about a 3-4 second burn

thanx, Ben

P.S. edited to take out the extra 4

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by ben
true, for me a LONG length of visco is 3' and that is about a 4 3-4 second burn

thanx, Ben

Then I don't believe we are not talking about the same visco.