Economic assistance

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by ThreeJsDad, Mar 17, 2020.

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  1. Mar 17, 2020 #1

    ThreeJsDad

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    This is related to The whole Corona thing but a bit more specific.

    In some areas businesses are being forced to close by people in political positions. I am talking about restaurants and other day to day businesses.

    Are the people that forced these closings going to help the people who work at, or own these businesses pay their bills? in some cases the people who work as bar tenders or waitresses are living pay check to pay check.

    I realize I am going to sound like an AZZZZ for saying this but how is it right to force these poor people to struggle and go through all of this when they are not the ones who would suffer the most from this virus. They are being forced to suffer to protect people who are probably retired and do not have to go out and make a living to pay their bills.

    My Mother is 81 and poor health, if she gets this it will probably kill her. She is staying in and avoiding contact with people as much as possible. I do not expect the people in her community to stop living their lives because she lives there too.

    I was at a Hobby Lobby on Saturday and there were plenty of senior citizens in there shopping. Clearly closing the schools and cancelling events will make little difference if these folks are still out doing stuff with the general public.

    I realize this seems like a very heartless position. I just wanted to share a view from a different perspective...
     
  2. Mar 17, 2020 #2

    Bat-mite

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    It's a tough call. I think the closures are voluntary; maybe there are tax breaks associated, I don't know. But this is having a major impact on the economy. No one has declared martial law, so they can't force businesses to close. I think it is voluntary.

    How that helps people living form paycheck to paycheck is beyond me.
     
  3. Mar 17, 2020 #3

    ThreeJsDad

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    It's mandatory in Illinois for restaurants. They did it for dine in when people can still go to a drive through, this makes no sense....

    https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/...stomers-in-illinois-due-to-covid-19-concerns/
     
  4. Mar 17, 2020 #4

    neil_w

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    How the economic impact of all this will be handled is TBD. There is no doubt it is going to be very difficult for some people, and I don't know what the answers are.

    However, I do need to address one thing:
    Everyone can suffer from this. The virus does not care if you are rich or poor, liberal or conservative, man or woman, gay or straight. Overwhelmed medical facilities will compromise the care that can be offered to everyone, including those dealing with medical issues unrelated to the virus.

    So it's not a matter of forcing some people to sacrifice to save others. It is a matter of everyone making changes and sacrificing to help everyone. What I do affects you, and what you do affects me. That is the only rational way to look at it. We have not dealt with something like this in our lifetimes; it requires us to adjust our thinking.

    Again, there are definitely economic challenges that will need to be addressed. But no one is exempt from this.
     
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  5. Mar 17, 2020 #5

    ThreeJsDad

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    I understand and I agree, I came on so strong to make a point. Everyone seems to be posting about the folks who have gotten it and how contagious it is. I agree completely this thing is horrible but at the same time nobody has mentioned how this is going to effect those who never get sick. Those who still have to get to work, take care of their kids or maybe even find a new source of income for a while. The mortgage company and car loan folks don't care that someone has been out of work for a while. They want their $$ because for them it is business as usual.

    I know of one family who dropped their kids off with the GREAT Grandparents who are not truly healthy for a 2 week stay since the kids were out of school. Clearly closing stuff down does not cure stupidity or people acting in their own best interest.
     
  6. Mar 17, 2020 #6

    Zeus-cat

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    We should have had a plan for this years ago. The experts have been saying that a pandemic isn't will it happen, but when. The Spanish Flu in 1918 killed millions.

    I think one of the basic functions of government is to keep public order. Keeping people safe from a pandemic falls into that category. Do we question the government's right to force evacuations or restrict travel in sever weather? Well, some people always do. I think most politicians take the responsibility of keeping the public safe and balance that against people's livelihood. It is a very tough call.

    The problem with disease is that we often don't know how severe it can be when it starts. Would you rather the government do nothing and 5 or 10% of the population died? And others have lung problems for the rest of their lives.

    Here in Ohio they just postponed the primary that was supposed to be today. They have closed the libraries, movie theaters, bars, restaurants, etc.
     
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  7. Mar 17, 2020 #7

    ThreeJsDad

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    Thank You and I agree !!!! I read your post in the other thread....WOW

    I just wanted to shed some light on the flip side of what is going on and how it can effect ALL people not just those who get sick. I was not trying to play the "blame game" at all. I simply wanted to start a discussion about the other aspect or aspects of how this will effect our lives. Often times I read or hear something and I think, "if I was in that spot how would it effect me?". In many cases that is a scary thought and that is what inspired my OP.
     
  8. Mar 17, 2020 #8

    Peartree

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    I think that those of us who are able to do so, need to help those people we know who are most harmed by shutdowns and unemployment, etc. In the age of kings, they called it "Noblesse Oblige" , or, "the nobility is obliged" to care for those that they can. Not everyone can do it, but if you know a waitress (or waiter) who is out of work and can't make the rent, and you're still working, even if you can't cover this month's rent, maybe you can contribute. The only way we get through this is together.
     
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  9. Mar 17, 2020 #9

    Steve Shannon

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    You’re exactly right; this is going to negatively affect servers, bartenders, workers in many of the service industries. It already has resulted in lack of work for thousands of people in reports, cruises, entertainment parks, etc.
    I believe the congress and president are currently working on a bill that will help provide. I would also expect that that companies that hold mortgages or rent properties will be forced to be flexible, either by public sentiment or law. In some cases companies have anticipated that and acted proactively; the utility company I retired from has announced that during this crisis they will not disconnect customers for non-payment. Those are also the things that will need to be done by responsible companies in order for us all to get through this.
     
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  10. Mar 17, 2020 #10

    neil_w

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    This is going to be a team effort in all areas of society.
     
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  11. Mar 17, 2020 #11

    ThreeJsDad

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    That is good news and your local utility is stepping up. Our local HS is a food hub for families in need. Spectrum is offering 60 days free for folks so kids can go on line to do school work. We noticed last night that we have some premium channels for free. I guess this is an effort to keep folks home.

    There are efforts being made but this has to be a very scary time for folks who are out of work due to this. Disney has been closed for about a week, my wife (a teacher) is working form home and my kids are all dong their course work on line.

    I anticipated large gestures by government agencies but it is wonderful to hear about the small gestures by local entities to help people with day to day life.
     
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  12. Mar 17, 2020 #12

    rcktnut

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    I'm sure congress will pass something that will protect those with mortgages, auto loans, etc. that can't pay do to being out of work. No reason why thy couldn't just extend the loan for a few months to make up for the months not being able to pay. We bailed out the financial institutions, now it's their turn to help those in need.
     
  13. Mar 17, 2020 #13

    ThreeJsDad

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    Well said !!!
     
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  14. Mar 17, 2020 #14

    ThreeJsDad

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    I would sure hope so !!!
     
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  15. Mar 17, 2020 #15

    75Grandville

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    I think we can all do a little bit. I reached out to a friend yesterday. I'm a manager at a manufacturing firm. He's staff at a center for at-risk youth. I make a bit more $ than he does. I asked him to reach out to me if he's in a bind. I can't solve everything, and I'm not going to give money away just because, but I am going to try to do my part to help people directly.

    COVID-19 is having devastating impacts on everyone. Small business are getting crushed - I also think the alternatives are worse. Wonder if we can all do something like buying gift cards/prepaying for needed services once things are over. I'm also going to support a friend's 501(c)(3), which runs on donations and admissions, and is likely going to be hurting.

    I hope that the government and large corporations will help people out, but I'm going to try to do my part now.

    <Climbs off of soapbox>

    Hope everyone is staying healthy!
     
  16. Mar 17, 2020 #16

    timbucktoo

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    Florida governor had press conference yesterday and specifically stated they would provide assistance to small businesses.
     
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  17. Mar 17, 2020 #17

    ThreeJsDad

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    That is awesome, imagine if you owned a catering service...... Corporate functions, weddings, birthday parties, all on hold. How about a small travel agency?
     
  18. Mar 17, 2020 #18

    rcktnut

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    Just thinking ahead, when this is all past us, I'm confident all the businesses that are really hurting now will recover rapidly, and most likely overwhelmingly.
     
  19. Mar 17, 2020 #19

    boatgeek

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    Out here, state and local governments are working to help small business and people in need. There's also moratoriums (moritoria?) on evictions and utility shutoffs. A federal extension of paid sick leave would help *a lot* if it covered people whose jobs were eliminated because the business they work at closed. I'm much more interested in that kind of support that takes care of Main Street than the massive interest rate cuts and other things for Wall Street.
     
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  20. Mar 17, 2020 #20

    jlabrasca

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  21. Mar 17, 2020 #21

    kuririn

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  22. Mar 17, 2020 #22

    Zeus-cat

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    Banks don't hold mortgages anymore; they get sold to investors.
     
  23. Mar 17, 2020 #23

    jd2cylman

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    Only if they're strong enough to weather the storm. If their economic situation was a little on the edge, they probably won't recover at all.
     
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  24. Mar 17, 2020 #24

    WILDMANRS

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    This is wishful thinking .
    All of the bill collectors still have there hand out with no grace period and if you own a bar in Illinois you no longer have any income period
     
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  25. Mar 17, 2020 #25

    ThreeJsDad

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    As of 5pm today all NC restaurants and bars are closed to dine in patrons. We also just got back from picking up my oldest as they have closed her campus for the year. She literally moved out of her dorm. All students need to me moved out by 3/20.
     
  26. Mar 17, 2020 #26

    BABAR

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    There are lots of people out there that are going to need financial help. An error in thinking which is, I believe, too common, is that it is "The Government" who should be doing the helping. "The Government" does not generate anything, money, food, clothing, shelter, anything. The government transfers money from taxpayers to those who meet needs according to criteria determined by (you guessed it) "The Government."

    There is nothing that prevents each and every one of us from helping out our neighbors in need, except possibly the attitude that supplying such needs is "The Government's" job.
     
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  27. Mar 17, 2020 #27

    Nathan

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    My brother-in-law owns the biggest catering business in Annapolis. Business has completely dried up. And his wife is a flight attendant so her income is also getting slashed.
     
  28. Mar 17, 2020 #28

    ThreeJsDad

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    We may manage to keep the death count to a minimum but the bankruptcy rate is going to sky rocket.

    I am going back to school (on line thank goodness) so I found a part time job. I have orientation tomorrow....So far it hasn't been cancelled.
     
  29. Mar 17, 2020 #29

    boatgeek

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    I'm really surprised at how quickly universal basic income has gone from a wacky idea of the far left and a fringe presidential candidate to a plausible solution proposed by Republican politicians. Strange times.

    If you'd rather not call it UBI, you can call it a compensation for the government taking jobs/property, since that is a well-established constitutional principle.
     
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  30. Mar 17, 2020 #30

    ThreeJsDad

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    Scary times !!!! I may finish the Atlas Shrugged series tonight so I can stay up all night afraid of where all of this is headed.....
     
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