~Diary of a Crapien~

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Some cheapie ..."Laser"...guided tooling acquired/assembled for accurate Bulkhead/Centering Ring/Glassing Jig construction.

Leon thinks it's cool.

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DoaC light weight/home rolled body tubes "Plan A" abandoned (not cost effective at this point).

Tube lightening scheme failed but some other diet techniques still on the books.

Here's "Plan B" with some theoretical weights applied to the sim.

Doac Design Components RS 9 Screenshot.jpg

DoaC 3D Model.jpg
 

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Wow, I feel flattered my name was brought up! Thanks Tim, I appreciate the kudos!

Most all of my projects use sonotube and homemade nose cones any more. Since I'm not a performance junkie, weight isn't an issue, but durability and cost are. Sonotube is pretty strong stuff right off the shelf and it's pretty inexpensive compared to other airframe materials.

I'll be more than happy to answer any and all questions about my own personal method for building rockets using sonotube, but I also want to link to a couple of builds.

First my L3 build- an 8" Upscale Thor which flew on an M1419 and later an N2000. I used 3/8" unreinforced baltic birch plywood for the fins and rings and sonotube for the airframe and avionics bay:

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=29011

Next was our (now infamous?) Talon 1.0 build, which I'm proud to see remains the most popular build thread in the history of TRF! =) OK, now that I'm done patting myself on the back, we also used Sonotube as the airframe and avionics bay, and flew this on an O-5500:

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=35494

Unfortunately the rocket died, so we're in the process of re-building, only this time we'll be flying it on a P. You can follow the progress at the link below.

Let me know if I can be of help!

Peas
 
SpartaChris said:
Wow, I feel flattered my name was brought up! Thanks Tim, I appreciate the kudos!

Most all of my projects use sonotube and homemade nose cones any more. Since I'm not a performance junkie, weight isn't an issue, but durability and cost are. Sonotube is pretty strong stuff right off the shelf and it's pretty inexpensive compared to other airframe materials.

I'll be more than happy to answer any and all questions about my own personal method for building rockets using sonotube, but I also want to link to a couple of builds.

First my L3 build- an 8" Upscale Thor which flew on an M1419 and later an N2000. I used 3/8" unreinforced baltic birch plywood for the fins and rings and sonotube for the airframe and avionics bay:

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=29011

Next was our (now infamous?) Talon 1.0 build, which I'm proud to see remains the most popular build thread in the history of TRF! =) OK, now that I'm done patting myself on the back, we also used Sonotube as the airframe and avionics bay, and flew this on an O-5500:

https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=35494

Unfortunately the rocket died, so we're in the process of re-building, only this time we'll be flying it on a P. You can follow the progress at the link below.

Let me know if I can be of help!

Peas
Click to expand...

Spartachris! Thanx for the links!

I never saw your L3 Thor build ('twas before my time here). Anyways, just reading it has solved all kinds of technical issues that have been rattling around in my head (getting a good shoulder on a foam nose cone/ glassing the nose cone/coupler sizing/etc,etc).

:cheers:
Scott
 
Just a quick catch up...I'm not real impressed with my tooling/R&D skills at this point regarding my attempts to practice making bulkheads the proper size to keep the QuikTube nice and round while being glassed. I feel I need to refine my "disk cutting" methods before moving on to the actual parts that will be installed into the rocket...However, tenacity will prevail eventually.

Known so far...

1) The RotoZip sucks on many levels. It torques and tweaks around A LOT regardless of circle cutting attachments or even trying to cut a straight line along a clamped straight edge. Just buy an axe, It'll be more satisfying.

2) The "Franken Fly Cutter of Doom"...NOT COOL!...I tried very carefully to cut through 3/4" inch ply at 550RPM alternating sides along the way. Finally made it through without any broken bones, windows or stitches. End result: not the size part that I needed and not the correct tool for this diameter/thickness of test part. (too much heat even being really nice to it)

3) I tried my jigsaw and got a nice circle but a non-perpendicular edge. Some nice thin scrolling blades worked better but still left a chunky edge.

4) I looked at plunge routers today at the hardware store but didn't buy one thinking that a table router and a jig is the way to go. Any way to hawg a plunge router into a table router setup?
 
Scott Evil said:
.....

4) I looked at plunge routers today at the hardware store but didn't buy one thinking that a table router and a jig is the way to go. Any way to hawg a plunge router into a table router setup?
Click to expand...

There are all kinds of things you can do with a router! I would highly recommend getting the book Router Magic by Bill Hylton and then Woodworking with the Router by Bill Hylton and Fred Matlack. I built a bench top router table but used the dust collection system as explained on page 235 of Router Magic. It works GREAT!

As for cutting circles, I think using a Trammel baseplate, or a vacuum Trammel baseplate as explained on pages 39 and 44 of Router Magic is the way to go instead of trying to use a router table.

The plunge router is the way to go unless you can afford that and a fixed base. The plunge router can be used in the router table too.
 
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Thanks guys,

I read your replies last night on my rush to work. Lotsa thought in the meantime...I should have done this right from the beginning. (it's been demonstrated several times here at TRF, but not knowing much about routers, I didn't watch that closely).

A couple of hours to wait after work for the stores to open on a Sunday but a new Black 'n' Decker 10amp variable speed Plunge Router and 1/2" strait bit has been procured.

Not enough time for me dive into the new box o' plunge router and play right now, but I'm already thinking of an aluminum Crapien specific (Jasper) type jig that could I cut and build fairly easily. More on this after I figure out the router.

Just to be fair to RotoZip, I've been practicing with 3/4" (not 5/8") oak plywood, so in all honesty I can't really say that the RotoZip is substandard for this purpose as I have been pushing its limits. It's very possible that it may work just fine on thinner material. Same goes for non-modified fly cutters.
 
...Think of Jim Cary's Information Super-Highway routine in the Cable Guy before you click here..https://www.routerforums.com

I haven't tried to log in, but I bet there's lots to learn for those into complex woodworking.
 
Finally some success!

No luck trying to find a Jasper Jig here locally so I made my own. ("Crapien Specific")

Not only did it turn out fairly well but I managed to get the pivot hole correct on the first try! It fits the (unpeeled) QuickTube ID perfectly.

Now that I have a reliable bulkhead plan, I can move ahead with the build in good conscience.

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The heavy glass you are using looks to be what I call "bionic" fiberglass from Wildman. It requires a little different application technique from the normal stuff.

I used it on my 7.5in. Gone Bananas rocket. Great stuff and nearly indestructible.

I first rolled the tube in the cloth 2 times and a few inches extra to get the needed amount for layup and cut. If you first put some masking tape on the cut line then mark your straight line on it, then cut, it will reduce fraying quite a bit. I left the little bit of tape on, no noticeable effect on end product.

Doing both wraps at one time is much easier with this stuff.

Cover the raw tube with a lightly thinned down coat of epoxy 5-10%. It will really soak in the sono. Let set up for 10-20 minutes till it's tacky, then align the edge of glass with a pre-drawn line down center of tube.

You really need an extra pair of hand for this step. One person holds the glass up and over the top of tube while you align it and begin the wrapping process.

Wrap about 1/3 of tube[it should stick well if tube is tacky] wet out, wrap more, wet out, all the while your helper is keeping light tension on the cloth to prevent bunching and wrinkles.

I always start in the center of tube and work out to each end with the epoxy. This keeps the cloth from "moving" and fraying. Rather than starting on one end and working to the other which can cause many problems. I just pour the epoxy on and smooth with my glove covered hands, Daubing out bubbles with the brush.
When cured use a power sander to level the overlap best as possible.
Then finish tube with 1 wrap of 6oz cloth.Will make finishing MUCH easier.

Don't worry too much about the high spot from joint overlap[which will be much reduced by doing 2 wraps at once rather than 2 separately] use some filler to level it out.
 
blackjack2564 said:
The heavy glass you are using looks to be what I call "bionic" fiberglass from Wildman. It requires a little different application technique from the normal stuff.

I used it on my 7.5in. Gone Bananas rocket. Great stuff and nearly indestructible.

I first rolled the tube in the cloth 2 times and a few inches extra to get the needed amount for layup and cut. If you first put some masking tape on the cut line then mark your straight line on it, then cut, it will reduce fraying quite a bit. I left the little bit of tape on, no noticeable effect on end product.

Doing both wraps at one time is much easier with this stuff.

Cover the raw tube with a lightly thinned down coat of epoxy 5-10%. It will really soak in the sono. Let set up for 10-20 minutes till it's tacky, then align the edge of glass with a pre-drawn line down center of tube.

You really need an extra pair of hand for this step. One person holds the glass up and over the top of tube while you align it and begin the wrapping process.

Wrap about 1/3 of tube[it should stick well if tube is tacky] wet out, wrap more, wet out, all the while your helper is keeping light tension on the cloth to prevent bunching and wrinkles.

I always start in the center of tube and work out to each end with the epoxy. This keeps the cloth from "moving" and fraying. Rather than starting on one end and working to the other which can cause many problems. I just pour the epoxy on and smooth with my glove covered hands, Daubing out bubbles with the brush.
When cured use a power sander to level the overlap best as possible.
Then finish tube with 1 wrap of 6oz cloth.Will make finishing MUCH easier.

Don't worry too much about the high spot from joint overlap[which will be much reduced by doing 2 wraps at once rather than 2 separately] use some filler to level it out.
Click to expand...

Jim, one of the things that shut me down on "plan A" is that I put a massive dent in one of two quart sets of Proline just with one layer of 2oz and one layer of the "bionic" stuff. (+ bad technique on my part)

Hind site being 20/20, my 1st attempt at heavy structural glassing and being too frugal with resin were my primary failure modes.

I'm still debating with my self on how to go about the body tube plan:

A) Just 2oz glass the QuickTubes and move on with the build.

B) Try again with layers of glass and mandrel soakout with a larger supply of Proline or maybe U.S. Composites 3:1.

C) Attempt same with cheap polyester resin (just to make the body tubes)
 
I vote "D"--one layer of 6oz.+ glass on Quicktubes then on with the build.
 
Sorry for the waffling and delays on the build structure everybody. As you may see already, Crapien III kind of teeters on the complex L2 vs. L3 Cert fence.

Some serious considerations of flight safety and planning needs to be done on my end before any Complex L2/L3 Cert ambitions can be effected...

Failing once at light weight scratch built body tubes and giving up has since been eating away at my conscience... Gotta try again... (Thnx Jim :cheers: )

Plan "B" parts on the way from The Wildman...

...Gallon set of Proline + Pumps

...Five yards o' 6oz Glass ( for fin surface/joints/fillets/ and random re-enforcing)

...A Six Grain Pro75 Hardware set + one spacer (for ???)
 
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Parts "In" from WildMan...:cheers: (VERY nice folks to do business with BTW!)

Here's some ejection charge canisters that I made in the meantime...Just need to lock in the tail end with some epoxy or JB Weld.

Yes, there's six of them, pending on how I decide deployment strategy, two RRc2 minis in the alt bay and a Raven in the MMT coupler...or visa versa...or well, yea, you get my point, lottsa redundancy and versitality.

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Here's what Dylan thinks of me getting all "Mid-Evil" with 3/4" aluminum tubing and snap rings instead of just popping some PVC parts on the bulkheads...

As you can see, Bagel the Beagle knows better than to express an opinion on this this one. :ROF:

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Some goodies from McMaster-Carr...

6X 36" lengths of aluminum 1/4-20 threaded rod.

Box-0-aluminum nuts and washers

1 square foot of 1/32" G10

>8 square feet of some surprisingly unattractive (but probably stronger than cat poop) denim looking carbon fiber.................

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...I'm used to packages being delivered to my home but just about drew down and shot at this one when saw its silhouette :y::roll: (a much bigger box than I expected... uh-oh!)

Anyways, kudos to the the folks at McMaster-Carr, they packed it well, got it here in less than 3 days and only charged me like $6 bucks on top of the order to get it here.

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Plenty of laughing children, blinged out labradors and stone age home made tooling photos.

But, still...something's just not quite right about the design itself.

Thinking, Hmmm...
 
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... (Heavenly Trumpets and chorus cranked up to 11) ...

...Ahhhh....Got it!
 
Some minor fin tweaking and a possible Sears-Haak nose cone in lieu of a 5:1 Ogive to get closer to the original Wildman design, but you get the idea. This is now an L3 Cert attempt as well.
 
As prescribed, a 56" hunk of Bionic Mondo glass pre-cut for two wraps and a bit more...and the obligitory tuba.

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All set up to try and get this rolled on solo style.

I'll coat the tube with epoxy, let it get cured up some and get sticky. Then I'll start wrapping with 8 pump resin batches. We'll see how it goes.

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Handeman said:
Looks a little small for a tuba. I played a tuba in 7th & 8th grade. Always wished I had taken up the Baritone when I had to cary the darn thing around.
Click to expand...

I just turned around and asked to be sure...Here's the response...

IT'S A TUBA DAD!!!:roll:
 
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